My embrace of National Socialism - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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#14644657
Potemkin wrote:It seems that no matter what topic to which Zamuel directs his intellect, he manages to be wrong about almost everything concerning that topic. He's the most astonishingly ignorant and opinionated person I have ever come across in my life. It's as though he has attended the University of Life and obtained a PhD in Being Totally Fucking Wrong About Everything. It's quite extraordinary.

Has to make you wonder though, about someone who THINKS he has what it takes to make that kind of judgement, doesn't it ?

Zam
#14644659
Zamuel wrote:What a crock ... ! Genetic science is the MOST consistent factor -OF- Ethnic and National Identity and will generally delineate what influences came from where.


In an imagined narrative without any tangible basis, not even in historical memory.

Zamuel wrote:No one remembers anything from before they were born


That is why people make songs, poems, communities and history so they can remember who they are at any time.

People have an enormous amount of historical memory within their own traditional songs that tell who and what they have been, maybe they should look into that before they disappear completely out of their own volition in search of the ancient superman.
#14644700
Zamuel wrote:What a crock ... ! Genetic science is the MOST consistent factor -OF- Ethnic and National Identity and will generally delineate what influences came from where.
noemon wrote:In an imagined narrative without any tangible basis, not even in historical memory.

No, in a "Just got the results from the lab" kind of way. A modern dynamic that looks to the future, not the stale and stagnant past.

Zamuel wrote:That is why people make songs, poems, communities and history so they can remember who they are at any time.

People don't make up songs ... Songs are created by specialist Bards / Tunesmiths / Rock Stars - who either are, or work for the shaman / priest / political scientist. They are USED to focus the complacent multitude and distract them from current issues. (unless they're seditious and revolutionary, which is just as manipulative) That may not suit your romantic tastes, but then, what was your last hit single ?

Zam
#14644705
Zamuel wrote:No, in a "Just got the results from the lab" kind of way. A modern dynamic that looks to the future, not the stale and stagnant past.


The only people that need to go to a lab to learn of their origins are orphans, allegorically and literally, in spirit and in history.

People don't make up songs ...


Speak for your own people.

That may not suit your romantic tastes


It is not a matter of taste, it is a matter of fact. There is no such a thing as an 'Aryan gene' or 'Aryan phenotype', that is a concoction of Nordic supremacism with absolutely no basis in fact.
#14644736
Noemon wrote:The only real Aryans in this earth are the Iranians and nobody else.


Just out of curiosity, why only Iranians and not Indians? Is it because of the name? Iran (Aryan)?

Anyway as per this topic of Aryan goes, there are no people today who can be called Aryan, the general accepted consensus is that Aryan were a linguistic group who migrated to Indo-Iranian region and settled there. Yes Iran gets her name from this term so did India with one of her ancient name being "Aryavarta". But saying that today there exists a people (who are also master class ) is not only absolutely wrong but completely ludicrous.

Arya and Aryan are still common male name in India btw, I guess they are the only true Aryans, obviously.

Potemkin wrote:It seems that no matter what topic to which Zamuel directs his intellect, he manages to be wrong about almost everything concerning that topic. He's the most astonishingly ignorant and opinionated person I have ever come across in my life. It's as though he has attended the University of Life and obtained a PhD in Being Totally Fucking Wrong About Everything. It's quite extraordinary.


Indeed. Now if only you guys could hear what my grandmother had to say about various people and the world in general.
#14644737
I am not aware of Indians claiming descent from Aryans like the Iranians do but then again I am not so proficient with Indian history which is so large & diverse. If there are Indians who have such a historical tradition then sure. I thought the Indians had some relationship to these mysterious Aryans but did not claim descent from them.
#14644904
Lexington wrote:I agree! What should we call this Nazi - racialism = ?

I would call it either integral nationalism or simply integralism . It used to be a thing in Brazil incidentally . http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Brazilian_Integralism In Brazil it would be obvious that National Socialism could not be appropriately applicable , given Brazil ' s heterogenous , and racially admixed population. And again , I do not know why any serious thinker would be for espousing the position of National Socialism , when there are numerous social movement that have some aspects in common with Nazi ideology , only without the adverse connotation . Everything from national conservatism , which I mentioned before , to liberal socialism , to an extent at least , given it's acceptance of social corporatism.
#14644968
I think I've spoken about this on the forum before, but modern day Nazis and fascists should carry on as they are but use a different name. Fascism is probably an attractive ideology to a lot of people, but people don't like to admit it. Anyone who becomes a Nazi today probably isn't thinking straight and is doing it to be rebellious. It's the same with fascists dressed in black uniforms that have marches with about 10 people turning out. People just don't want to be associated with facism because of its association with the uneducated- concern of ridicule and criticism from society and their peers would hold them back.

The people that are willing to join fascist organisations could make good recruits for a better run organisation and would likely join you if you offered them something that sounded more realistic. The white working class in Britain has traditionally relied on the Labour Party to fight their cause but the Labour Party has abandoned them and a massive part of the electorate is now up for grabs. This might be similar in France and Germany. If fascists can drop the fascist name and organise themselves skilfully they might have a chance.
#14644975
noemon wrote:It is not a matter of taste, it is a matter of fact. There is no such a thing as an 'Aryan gene' or 'Aryan phenotype', that is a concoction of Nordic supremacism with absolutely no basis in fact.

Well sure it is ! and Africans are really purple ... (sorry bro) ... whatever did happen to Kobe anyway ... I've never met a Nordic Supremacist ? But I know a few people who'll have a good laugh at it. (even if they are purple!)

Deutschmania wrote:I do not know why any serious thinker would be for espousing the position of National Socialism , when there are numerous social movement that have some aspects in common with Nazi ideology , only without the adverse connotation.

It's the romantic notion I think, the illicit thrill of sponsoring immorality, even if it is long past. Also, to be fair, it's more readily understood by those less politically astute.

Zam
#14645064
Paul Sanderson wrote:I think I've spoken about this on the forum before, but modern day Nazis and fascists should carry on as they are but use a different name.


Exactly what I've been saying for years.

Fascism is probably an attractive ideology to a lot of people, but people don't like to admit it.


Right too much historical baggage.

Anyone who becomes a Nazi today probably isn't thinking straight and is doing it to be rebellious.


There are genuine racists, but they aren't going anywhere.

The people that are willing to join fascist organisations could make good recruits for a better run organisation and would likely join you if you offered them something that sounded more realistic. The white working class in Britain has traditionally relied on the Labour Party to fight their cause but the Labour Party has abandoned them and a massive part of the electorate is now up for grabs. This might be similar in France and Germany. If fascists can drop the fascist name and organise themselves skilfully they might have a chance.



Sure, but I've always thought that a major crisis is necessary--and almost certainly coming. A new movement won't stand a chance unless the present system blunders or stumbles badly, thereby getting more intelligent people to question it, and seek a good alternative, unlike the neo-nazis or KKK. I'm afraid as long as the present system is still doing outwardly OK there won't be enough of a constituency for radical change. Look at Adolf. For all his skill as an orator and organizer the nazis didn't make real headway until the depression.
#14645083
starman2003 wrote:Exactly what I've been saying for years. Right too much historical baggage.

The people who join these groups clearly feel as though they’ve lost hope and have been neglected, I want to help them actually. But they’re going the wrong way about tackling their frustration and are doing harm to the general Right wing movement.
starman2003 wrote:Sure, but I've always thought that a major crisis is necessary--and almost certainly coming. A new movement won't stand a chance unless the present system blunders or stumbles badly, thereby getting more intelligent people to question it, and seek a good alternative, unlike the neo-nazis or KKK.

Yeah true enough. A new party would need to move away from the single issue politics that seems to dominate a lot of these groups and move towards economic ideology. If it was going to be successful in time of non-crisis it needs to be seen as a realistic future government. Economic socialism combined with strong conservative political policies is a gap that hardly any mainstream political party can realistically fill and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a political and economic stance proved extremely popular.
starman2003 wrote:I'm afraid as long as the present system is still doing outwardly OK there won't be enough of a constituency for radical change. Look at Adolf. For all his skill as an orator and organizer the nazis didn't make real headway until the depression.

I don’t think the change would need to be so radical. Effective use of propaganda by a committed organisation would work for itself, there’s more than enough propaganda out there, it’s about the ability of your group to spread it as far and wide as possible and it’s the way it already works now with TV and newspapers. If you promote and circulate your views effectively over a lengthy period of time, nothing you say or do will seem radical- even inviting countless Islamic State linked immigrants to settle in your country while claiming that the reason for their hostility and savage nature is due to too much Western oppression.
#14645089
Paul Sanderson wrote:The people who join these groups clearly feel as though they’ve lost hope and have been neglected, I want to help them actually. But they’re going the wrong way about tackling their frustration and are doing harm to the general Right wing movement.


The German government tries hard to silence its own people, short time ago this video was still on the air in Youtube and now removed, as was removed before from Facebook. This clampdown will not end well.

WATCH: ‘Angela Merkel You Have Killed Germany!’ – 16 Year Old Girl’s Migrant Fears Video That Some Claim Facebook Are ‘Censoring’
#14645137
Paul Sanderson wrote:If it was going to be successful in time of non-crisis it needs to be seen as a realistic future government.


As long as people still believe democracy is the best system--and they will until its failings lead to real crises--they'll see any change as superfluous.

Economic socialism combined with strong conservative political policies is a gap that hardly any mainstream political party can realistically fill and I wouldn’t be surprised if such a political and economic stance proved extremely popular.


Economic socialism is anathema around here. I'm much less conservative than pragmatic.


I don’t think the change would need to be so radical. Effective use of propaganda by a committed organisation would work for itself, there’s more than enough propaganda out there, it’s about the ability of your group to spread it as far and wide as possible and it’s the way it already works now with TV and newspapers. If you promote and circulate your views effectively over a lengthy period of time, nothing you say or do will seem radical- even inviting countless Islamic State linked immigrants to settle in your country while claiming that the reason for their hostility and savage nature is due to too much Western oppression.


No use saying things that'll make 100 enemies for every convert. IMO it's essential to have a propaganda line lots of people can relate to from the start, even if it's just a sham cover for an authoritarian movement e.g. New American patriots. Change must be radical because, without real authoritarianism, it won't be possible to effectively address problems through unpopular sacrifices.
#14645308
starman2003 wrote:The German government tries hard to silence its own people, short time ago this video was still on the air in Youtube and now removed, as was removed before from Facebook. This clampdown will not end well.

Yeah the video didn’t work, I guess it’s been removed. But I can imagine how it is anyway. I can’t really see what Merkel was thinking here. I can only assume she wanted to give them citizenship knowing that they’d all vote for her at the next election., not realising how much the native population could turn on her. I seriously hope she doesn’t recover from this before the next election.
starman2003 wrote:Economic socialism is anathema around here. I'm much less conservative than pragmatic.

Anathema to who? I’m sure there are socialists and communists on here.
starman2003 wrote:No use saying things that'll make 100 enemies for every convert.

Such as what?
starman2003 wrote:IMO it's essential to have a propaganda line lots of people can relate to from the start, even if it's just a sham cover for an authoritarian movement e.g. New American patriots.

How many people are “lots of people” to you? Do you not think that 20% would be enough?
starman2003 wrote:Change must be radical because, without real authoritarianism, it won't be possible to effectively address problems through unpopular sacrifices.

It doesn’t necessarily need to be radical. If you were to legitimately win an election, and you intended to win the next one legally as well, it would be wise to make less radical changes. If you wanted to completely rig the election or just take outright declare democracy no more, then yes you would have to make radical changes quickly.
#14645475
Paul Sanderson wrote:Anathema to who? I’m sure there are socialists and communists on here.


Of course. I meant here in the US. Btw you were quoting someone else--about the German government.


Such as what?


The bit about ISIS above.


How many people are “lots of people” to you? Do you not think that 20% would be enough?


If organized and armed yes.


It doesn’t necessarily need to be radical. If you were to legitimately win an election, and you intended to win the next one legally as well, it would be wise to make less radical changes. If you wanted to completely rig the election or just take outright declare democracy no more, then yes you would have to make radical changes quickly.


I envisage democracy ending by means of a coup with possible subsequent rigged elections but no immediate formal end to it. It's hard to imagine effectively solving problems without real authoritarianism.
#14645583
starman2003 wrote:It's hard to imagine effectively solving problems without real authoritarianism.

It is ... and that's an inherent weakness of Mosaic organization. THEY attempt to PREVENT problems from happening, but if that fails, must inevitably resort to (hopefully temporary) authoritarian action.

Zam
#14645628
Anyway as per this topic of Aryan goes, there are no people today who can be called Aryan, the general accepted consensus is that Aryan were a linguistic group who migrated to Indo-Iranian region and settled there.


Image

The Brahmin is a member of the highest of the four Indian castes, who teaches Vedic literature (Brahmin, the priests; Kshatriya, warriors and nobility; Vaisya, farmers, traders and artisans; and Shudra, tenant farmers and servants.) The Indo-Aryan people migrated to northwestern parts of the Indian subcontinent and spread to the Ganges Plain around 1200 BCE, which coincided with the spread of the Vedic culture in India. Brahmin people are genetically distinct from other Indians outside the Brahmin caste. There is a high percentage of blue eyes among the Brahmin caste and the highest levels of Haplogroup R1a are found among West Bengal Brahmins (72%) and Uttar Pradesh Brahmins (67%). Moreover, a previous genetic study concluded that the Indian upper castes are significantly more similar to Europeans than the lower castes. The degree of West Eurasian admixture was proportional to caste rank as more West Eurasians became members of the upper castes at the inception of the caste system in India (Bamshad et al. 2001).

Image
Kulin Brahmins are those Brahmins in Bengal who can trace themselves to the five families of Kanauj (Kanyakubja), Uttar Pradesh who migrated to Bengal. They were given immense power during the reign of the Sena/Sen kings who were staunch Hindus and did not encourage the practice of any other religion. The five brahmin families were differentiated by their gotras. The Kanaujiya/kanyakubj brahmins who settled in Bengal had the following gotras: (Shandilya, Bhardwaj, Kashyap, Swavarna and Vatsav/Vatsya); these gotras denote the Rishis whose followers the brahmins were. Some of these kuleen families settled in Barendrabhoom and some in Rarhbhoom in what is present day Bangladesh. The descendants of these families became known as Rarhi and Barendra brahmins as per their settlement.
http://jacksonchakraborty.blogspot.com/ ... ahmin.html

The origins and affinities of the ∼1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most recent of these waves, Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced indigenous Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves primarily in castes of higher rank. To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ∼265 males from eight castes of different rank to ∼750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. For maternally inherited mtDNA, each caste is most similar to Asians. However, 20%–30% of Indian mtDNA haplotypes belong to West Eurasian haplogroups, and the frequency of these haplotypes is proportional to caste rank, the highest frequency of West Eurasian haplotypes being found in the upper castes. In contrast, for paternally inherited Y-chromosome variation each caste is more similar to Europeans than to Asians. Moreover, the affinity to Europeans is proportionate to caste rank, the upper castes being most similar to Europeans, particularly East Europeans. These findings are consistent with greater West Eurasian male admixture with castes of higher rank. Nevertheless, the mitochondrial genome and the Y chromosome each represents only a single haploid locus and is more susceptible to large stochastic variation, bottlenecks, and selective sweeps. Thus, to increase the power of our analysis, we assayed 40 independent, biparentally inherited autosomal loci (1 LINE-1 and 39 Alu elements) in all of the caste and continental populations (∼600 individuals). Analysis of these data demonstrated that the upper castes have a higher affinity to Europeans than to Asians, and the upper castes are significantly more similar to Europeans than are the lower castes. Collectively, all five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians. We conclude that Indian castes are most likely to be of proto-Asian origin with West Eurasian admixture resulting in rank-related and sex-specific differences in the genetic affinities of castes to Asians and Europeans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC311057/
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 24 Jan 2016 20:46, edited 2 times in total.
#14645634
That was a complete drivel post (Every single thing is so wrong that its hilarious) by ThirdTermm and the source used is so poor (literally) that it can't even buy a proper domain name for their blog.

Pro-tip : Not everything on teh Internet is true, I know shocking but true.
#14645678
starman2003 wrote:Of course. I meant here in the US. Btw you were quoting someone else--about the German government.

What would this party entail then if not socialism? I would think that the Republicans could just become more hard line if the people came to demand tougher government.
starman2003 wrote:The bit about ISIS above.

Are you saying that something I said would create a hundred enemies for every convert? The bit about propaganda being the reason that people accept waves of immigrants (many ISIS linked) into their country?
starman2003 wrote:If organized and armed yes.

20% is actually quite achievable if you’re talking about creating something that people can “relate to”. But being “armed and organized” is a different thing. It sounds like you want to set up a paramilitary organisation haha. I think I know what you’re saying though, it probably does help to have people who are ready to fight. But 20% of the entire country as paramilitaries would be like Vietnam haha.
starman2003 wrote:I envisage democracy ending by means of a coup with possible subsequent rigged elections but no immediate formal end to it. It's hard to imagine effectively solving problems without real authoritarianism.

I’m not sure about a coup, I think it’s too much. Rigged elections I’m ok with though. I’m sure there’s many ways that we could say that elections in Europe and the United States currently are rigged. The ridiculous drawing of boundaries, electoral fraud and unfair distribution of financial resources. But yes, authoritarianism is completely necessary when there are problems that threaten the safety and unity of the state.
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