Would you live in a fascist state? - Page 15 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#14804557
starman2003 wrote:Any informed person should believe it. Democracy has been failing for some time, but it can't collapse soon, or until the consequences become overwhelming, because it's so ingrained. The author of The Twilight of Democracy believed it would be essentially gone c 2050. I think consummation of the process will be somewhat later.


You believe it because ypu read a book that validates your pre-existing beliefs. Why should anyone else believe it?

I just said it was authoritarian which is common knowledge. Communist governments led by strongmen in power essentially for life are authoritarian. If you doubt it go there and publically call for the overthrow of its government.


I know what your opinion is. I know many others, including Cubans, who are of a different opinion.

Now, seeing as you have no evidence to support your claim that Cuba's longevity is due to its supposed authoritarianism, I am going to dismiss this claim.
#14804763
Pants-of-dog wrote:You believe it because ypu read a book that validates your pre-existing beliefs. Why should anyone else believe it?


I believed democracy would ultimately go long before I heard of the book, and for partly different reasons than those the author gave. I don't expect most others to believe it yet, because they're too wedded to the system; only major failings will change that.


Now, seeing as you have no evidence to support your claim that Cuba's longevity is due to its supposed authoritarianism, I am going to dismiss this claim.


You dismiss the claim Cuba is authoritarian. No doubt on that basis others will dismiss your credibility.
#14804834
starman2003 wrote:I believed democracy would ultimately go long before I heard of the book, and for partly different reasons than those the author gave. I don't expect most others to believe it yet, because they're too wedded to the system; only major failings will change that.


So you have no logical or evidence based reasons to support your belief that democracy will collapse in the next fifty years.

You dismiss the claim Cuba is authoritarian. No doubt on that basis others will dismiss your credibility.


Now, seeing as you have no evidence to support your claim that Cuba's longevity is due to its supposed authoritarianism, I am going to dismiss this claim.
#14805018
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you have no logical or evidence based reasons to support your belief that democracy will collapse in the next fifty years.


:roll: I've mentioned the failings of democracy many times before...


...supposed authoritarianism, I am going to dismiss this claim.


The fact Cuba is communist and was ruled by a strongman for half a century is not evidence for authoritarianism... :roll: Go ahead dismiss the claim, most everyone else will dismiss your credibility and we'll leave it at that.
#14805020
For fucks sake, almost all states in the world currently are different shades of authoritarianism and murderous regimes.
Regardless of their ideology. Power and wealth don't give a fuck about the people, they only give excuses to fuck everyone even more. And that applies to both capitalist and communist regimes alike.
Only few stand outside that description.
#14805057
starman2003 wrote::roll: I've mentioned the failings of democracy many times before...


Yes, and if you explained how those would lead to collapse in the next fifty or so years, you might have an argument.

The fact Cuba is communist and was ruled by a strongman for half a century is not evidence for authoritarianism... :roll: Go ahead dismiss the claim, most everyone else will dismiss your credibility and we'll leave it at that.


This stupid tangent started when you claimed that Cuba's longevity is due to its authoritarianism.

Please present evidence (in the form of a link to a reputable source and a quote of text that corroborates your claim) for this claim. Thank you.
#14805253
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, and if you explained how those would lead to collapse in the next fifty or so years, you might have an argument.


I already did in pofo many times.

This stupid tangent started when you claimed that Cuba's longevity is due to its authoritarianism.


I already mentioned the obvious evidence for authoritarianism--communism, the one party system, a single head of state, or strongman, in power for several decades...Only one thing might convince you of this obvious reality. Go to Cuba and publically and loudly call for the downfall of the present government. Go ahead, do it, you might learn something. :lol:
#14805367
starman2003 wrote:I already did in pofo many times.


I have to say that the "I already did it!" dodge is one of my least favourite attmepts at not supporting your argument.

Feel free to return to where you did it and argue with whomever you were speaking to at the time.

I already mentioned the obvious evidence for authoritarianism--communism, the one party system, a single head of state, or strongman, in power for several decades...Only one thing might convince you of this obvious reality. Go to Cuba and publically and loudly call for the downfall of the present government. Go ahead, do it, you might learn something. :lol:


You do not seem to understand what claim you are supporting. Please try again after rereading your actual claim. Hint: it includes the word "longevity".
#14805502
Pants-of-dog wrote:Feel free to return to where you did it and argue with whomever you were speaking to at the time.



I probably got the last word. But I'm tired of going around in circles here. Go ahead and believe Cuba is not authoritarian. :roll:
#14805548
starman2003 wrote:I probably got the last word. But I'm tired of going around in circles here. Go ahead and believe Cuba is not authoritarian. :roll:


This stupid tangent started when you claimed that Cuba's longevity is due to its authoritarianism.

Please present evidence (in the form of a link to a reputable source and a quote of text that corroborates your claim) for this claim. Thank you.
#14805559
[quote="starman2003"]I already did in pofo many times.[/quote]


Should be easy-peasy to do it one more time.

Anasawad is right. Every country has laws that's cannot be violated full stop. We're in the process of legalising pot, but there was a time when you could get two years for a single joint.

Most Cubans like their political system, because in the roughest terms it's the inverse of our system meaning the majority of the policies are in the hands of the locals. Castro's job was to ensure they got what they wanted. As a result, they have an excellent medical system, including pharmaceuticals, a rate of doctors and nurses per person that puts us to shame, one of the lowest rates of illiteracy worldwide, and a diplomatic service based on their doctors. Everyone has a home, food etc. And they can criticise their government but they are more inclined to discuss the American government.
#14805721
Stormsmith wrote:Most Cubans like their political system, because in the roughest terms it's the inverse of our system meaning the majority of the policies are in the hands of the locals. Castro's job was to ensure they got what they wanted. As a result, they have an excellent medical system, including pharmaceuticals, a rate of doctors and nurses per person that puts us to shame, one of the lowest rates of illiteracy worldwide, and a diplomatic service based on their doctors. Everyone has a home, food etc.


How strange that many Cubans were desperate to leave,

And they can criticise their government but they are more inclined to discuss the American government.


Undoubtedly. :)
#14805782
starman2003 wrote:How strange that many Cubans were desperate to leave,


Not really. Cuba is a developing country, with the same lack of economic opportunities that typify any developing country. This, combined with the "wet foot, dry foot" immigration policy for Cubans, explains the draw of Cubans to the US.

Mexico has far more migrants despite the lack of automatic legal status. Are you going to argue that Mexicans hate their authoritarian government?

Undoubtedly. :)


Considering the fact that this is the government that is responsible for most of their woes, this makes sense.
#14805988
Pants-of-dog wrote:Mexico has far more migrants despite the lack of automatic legal status.


But Mexico has a long border with the US. Also much of it is arid. I don't think it has much economic potential and it may have stifled much of what it does have by nationalization. PEMEX was once called the only oil company losing money. Given the stifling effects of socialism which Mexico has in common with Cuba, to an extent, migration isn't surprising.

Considering the fact that this is the government that is responsible for most of their woes, this makes sense.


Communism is responsible for the bulk of economic woes. Too little incentive just like in the USSR.
#14806035
starman2003 wrote:But Mexico has a long border with the US. Also much of it is arid. I don't think it has much economic potential and it may have stifled much of what it does have by nationalization. PEMEX was once called the only oil company losing money. Given the stifling effects of socialism which Mexico has in common with Cuba, to an extent, migration isn't surprising.

Communism is responsible for the bulk of economic woes. Too little incentive just like in the USSR.


I doubt it.

This seems more like your musings about the situation rather than a supported and verifiable claim.
#14806074
starman2003 wrote:But Mexico has a long border with the US. Also much of it is arid. I don't think it has much economic potential and it may have stifled much of what it does have by nationalization. PEMEX was once called the only oil company losing money. Given the stifling effects of socialism which Mexico has in common with Cuba, to an extent, migration isn't surprising.


If I was a Mexican mom, i'd cross the border, too, to get my children out of a crime zone. Illegal immigration is way down, though, so trotting out this argument is no longer valid. Tourism flourishes. Manufacturing is growing.

But you're arguing communism and socialism don't provide incentive. Well, some democracies are better than others, and some social democracies are better than others. Cuba, because of the 57 year Imbargo, should be set aside. But look at the four Scandinavian countries, look at China. They're doing well.
#14806079
Would I live in a fascist state?

Hmm...

We've got a lot of proto-fascists, authoritarians, alt-right pretenders, and the like. So far, I haven't seen any actual fascists. When rightists do get in power they usually turn out to be nothing more than garden variety krony kapitalists, a la Trump. Not even a hint of Strasserism or the corporatist mumbo-jumbo that once defined the fascist worldview.

So, it looks like the populist right is no more a gateway to fascism than social democracy is a gateway to socialism.
#14806287
Stormsmith wrote:But look at the four Scandinavian countries, look at China. They're doing well.


China is authoritarian and capitalist. I don't know much about Scandinavian countries but assume they're largely capitalist, even if they have extensive social welfare
#14806646
Al countries are capitalist in the sense all countries require capital and gain it through trade.

Socialism is found in the how's and why's business / trade is conducted and regulated, and to whom and how profits are invested.
#14806845
quetzalcoatl wrote:We've got a lot of proto-fascists, authoritarians, alt-right pretenders, and the like. So far, I haven't seen any actual fascists. When rightists do get in power they usually turn out to be nothing more than garden variety krony kapitalists, a la Trump. Not even a hint of Strasserism or the corporatist mumbo-jumbo that once defined the fascist worldview.


:lol: Heck, even Hitler, in actual practice, favored the rich capitalists over the proles.


So, it looks like the populist right is no more a gateway to fascism than social democracy is a gateway to socialism.


You can't expect significant change until the present system really screws up.
  • 1
  • 13
  • 14
  • 15
  • 16
  • 17
  • 18

In the meantime, try to solve the liberty contrac[…]

The term "retarded" is not deemed politi[…]

Trump and Russiagate

It did not seem to be a big deal to Obama Obama[…]

America: Canada's toilet... No, Canadians are t[…]