What's a Third Position? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
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#14902045
Rei would be the person to answer that question, but she hitched her wagon to the neoconservatives and is now bitterly disillusioned.
#14902054
@blackjack21

Who even is Rei? I know Saeko won't shut up about her/him and I know for a fact that it greatly influenced her thought. I know she was a fascist and I know she's Japanese. Along with that, I know she blocked Hong Wu on Twitter. Outside of that, information about her is relatively scarce and I don't know anything about her actual ideology. I wish I had been on PoFo earlier.

Anyways, enough of my rambling, do you at least happen to know anything about Third Position-ism? I mean, you do know your fascism pretty well (not that you're fascist or anything) and due to hidden cognitive biases that I won't really get into right now, I assume given your ideology that you have at least dabbled in fascism at one point of your life. Given this, could you as accurately as you could explain the Third Position?
#14902073


Rei may be speaking in this YouTube video, which is about Jeremy Corbyn's plan to buy 8,000 homes for 8,000 homeless people. I have never met her in person but she sounds like a middle-aged British woman who has a lot to complain about British society. Her profile signature used to promote Third Positionism.
#14902190
Oxymandias wrote:@ThirdTerm

But what is Third Positionism?


Well if the first position is missionary, and the second position is doggy, then I guess the third position is cowgirl.

Sex jokes aside though, the Third Position is a huge class of ideologies that consider themselves in opposition to both capitalism and communism.
#14902196
@Saeko

I guess the forth postion would be quadratic spacetime sexytime infinity, beyond our own dimension, in which all three positions occur simultaneously.

Could you clarify? In what fashion is it opposed to capitalism and communism?
#14902202
Oxymandias wrote:Could you clarify? In what fashion is it opposed to capitalism and communism


In the same way fascism is.

Communism believes in entirely controlling the means of production and promotes an unnatural egalitarianism (state enforced degeneracy).

Capitalism (According to third-positioners) allows for increases in degeneracy as well as it does not curb it, but creates conditions where such will grow naturally (anarchic degeneracy).

The Hard-Right third-position folks will see both systems as originating in Jewish political thought and lobbying (hence the antisemetic element among some on the Far-Right).

In contrast, the third position argues for a mixed economy with a singular purpose to eliminate weakness and degeneracy.

The Far-Right tends to believe that natural heirarchy must be enforced or state-recognized. It controls the means of production only inasmuch as is necessary to promote these heirarchies and create a state of autarky (self-sufficiency).

The fourth position is like the third position, but is decidedly anti-western and more global in its orientation as opposed to the distinctly nationalist flavor of third-positionism. Dugin's fourth political theory sees a fascistic system based on a Eurasian global realignment against the west as embodied by the United States.

As far as Rei.....she is not a third-positioner....she is a consistent communist. Perhaps the most consistent I have ever encountered. She advocates for absolute free-markets in order that capitalism may be able to run its full course and transition into communism, which seems closer to what Marx really believed would happen.
#14902207
Oxymandias wrote:@blackjack21

Who even is Rei? I know Saeko won't shut up about her/him and I know for a fact that it greatly influenced her thought. I know she was a fascist and I know she's Japanese. Along with that, I know she blocked Hong Wu on Twitter. Outside of that, information about her is relatively scarce and I don't know anything about her actual ideology. I wish I had been on PoFo earlier.

Anyways, enough of my rambling, do you at least happen to know anything about Third Position-ism? I mean, you do know your fascism pretty well (not that you're fascist or anything) and due to hidden cognitive biases that I won't really get into right now, I assume given your ideology that you have at least dabbled in fascism at one point of your life. Given this, could you as accurately as you could explain the Third Position?

Rei catches people’s attention because she held very controversial positions, but was undeniably highly intelligent. I often pictured her in a small room filled with computers loaded with tons of facts for every conceivable argument. She was not a poster you would want to challenge unless you had significant expertise in the area. I liked her and miss her.
#14902211
One Degree wrote:Rei catches people’s attention because she held very controversial positions, but was undeniably highly intelligent. I often pictured her in a small room filled with computers loaded with tons of facts for every conceivable argument. She was not a poster you would want to challenge unless you had significant expertise in the area. I liked her and miss her.


I had the pleasure of getting to have an enjoyable debate with her in what might have been her last public appearance on PoFo....fairly recently.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172874&start=40
#14902219
@B0ycey

If the wikipedia article was detailed enough I wouldn't be asking this question in the first place.

@Victoribus Spolia

Thank you for the information! Could you delve deeper into the tenants of Third Positionism assuming you have knowledge on the issue.

So Rei was an accelerationist? I'm sorry, but that does not fit the relatively fascist views on state controls she has. And even if I do know little about Rei's ideology, I do know she significantly influence Saeko so I doubt that Saeko will interpret "Completely free markets to march towards Communism!" as "State Controlled sectors with some private enterprise combined with class collaboration along with an Authoritarian social structure!".

@One Degree

Now I want to debate with her. Let's test her knowledge on Middle Eastern politics, culture, religion, and history.
#14902225
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I had the pleasure of getting to have an enjoyable debate with her in what might have been her last public appearance on PoFo....fairly recently.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=172874&start=40

Thanks for the reference. It was an enjoyable exchange to read and nice to know Rei made a return visit.
#14902226
@Oxymandias, Rei is not a Communist like VS claims but is indeed a third positioner. Her opinions in regards to Marx is cherry picking and manipulated to fit her ideology. In layman terms, Third Positioners are fascists with egalitarian/free market economic policies. They want higher authority and strict enforcement and obedience to the cause whilst at the same time promote the destruction of Capitalism and for society to promote itself from within and be able to cater for itself with an obedient populous.

Also FYI Rei was also a Technocrat. So basically her ideology was much like the book 'Brave New World', - arguably a third positioners futuristic utopian wet dream.
By Rich
#14902227
blackjack21 wrote:Rei would be the person to answer that question, but she hitched her wagon to the neoconservatives and is now bitterly disillusioned.

Yeah she became a Hilary supporter, almost exactly the time I ceased to be a Hilary supporter. When I joined she described herself as a Tory feminist but rapidly moved into Showa feminism. Well it was at least a refreshing change from Islamofeminism and rap-feminism. While comfortable with anti Black racism, I think she was pissed off by the anti Asian sentiment of Cruz and co. Trump was even worse. This seemed to coincide with her drift into pan East Asian supremacism. That then led on to a romance with the profoundly un- pan East Asian Vietnamese Communist party.

Then Trump won and she went off in a huff.
#14902229
@B0ycey

Thank you for the clarification.

Also I feel offended that you called Rei a Technocrat. As an actual Technocrat I would like you not to associate it with fascism given that it is directly opposed to fascism.
#14902230
Oxymandias wrote:Thank you for the information! Could you delve deeper into the tenants of Third Positionism assuming you have knowledge on the issue.

So Rei was an accelerationist? I'm sorry, but that does not fit the relatively fascist views on state controls she has. And even if I do know little about Rei's ideology, I do know she significantly influence Saeko so I doubt that Saeko will interpret "Completely free markets to march towards Communism!" as "State Controlled sectors with some private enterprise combined with class collaboration along with an Authoritarian social structure!".


She admitted her accelerationist views in that debate we had on the thread linked above. In that debate she also gave special thanks to Potemkin and TIG for her conversion.... :eek:

So yes, she is not real third-positioner anymore. She is an accelerationist communist and a futurist technocrat which is paradoxically mixed with some neo-primitivism.

These are her professed views and I can quote her own claims if needed.

Oxymandias wrote:Thank you for the information! Could you delve deeper into the tenants of Third Positionism assuming you have knowledge on the issue.


I will give you my brief summary of some core points of far-right third-positionists as that is what I am familar with, though groups like The Nation of Islam also tend to be third positioners though be considered "on the left" in the United States, but as far as I can tell, they share the exact same views. I will just give you a list and can unpack them upon request.

1. Ethno-Cultural Nationalism.
2. Autarky.
3. Embraced Heirarchy.
4. Authoritarianism.
5. Social Engineering.
6. Militarism.
7. Patriarchy/Fecundity.
8. Spiritualism/Mythos.
9. Paternalism.
10. Perfectionism.

Oxymandias wrote:Why did you not PM me? I thought we were friends...


You are my friend.

What did I miss? :lol:
#14902237
@Victoribus Spolia

TIG is a accelerationist! I mean I wouldn't put it pass Potemkin to be an accelerationist given his views but I thought TIG was as classic of a Marxist as you could get.

Please don't use the word technocrat. Actually Technocracy is very different from what mainstream thought considers "technocracy".

The Nation of Islam was a really weird group of people. Here in the ME most people have very mixed views on them. Some people blindly root for them because they say they're Muslims and others who know their theology, don't. Anyways I'll take you up on that offer:

1. Ethno-Cultural Nationalism
2. Autarky
3. Embraced Hierarchy
* Is this a sort of class collaboration kind of thing?
4. Authoritarianism
* In what sense is it authoritarian? I thought it favored free-markets? Isn't it hard to manage free markets and authoritarian control at the same time? Look at China which, despite being authoritarian, isn't able to crack down on offenders to
it's authoritarian rule because of it's relaxation on markets.
5. Social Engineering
6. Militarism
7. Patriarchy/Fecundity
8. Spiritualism/Mythos
* What do you mean by this.
9. Paternalism
* What is the difference between this and authoritarianism
10. Perfectionism
* What even is this?

You missed PM'ing me to debate with Rei. We could've double-teamed her. You with conservative ideals on one side and me with liberal ideals on the other.

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