[skinster]

^ so the Americans concede they are wrong. Cool story.

[Dimetrodon]

^ so the Americans concede they are wrong. Cool story.

Semantics only.

[Dimetrodon]

This don't exonerate the CCP's conduct towards members, but I need to state one thing. Stopped clock CCP position.

Edit: Ignore the seemingly pro-Trump crap about foreign policy in the begining. I posted this to show it is a cult and it calls out some bad pro-Trump conspiracy theories by this cult.

[skinster]

Semantics only.

Cool story.

[skinster]

You both admitted the hysteria in the stuff you were crying about, but ok.

[Patrickov]

Not exactly, you're just too stupid to understand abstract and complex concepts

Unwillingness is quite different from stupidity. I do not see that Member as an enemy if only stupidity is in play.

One may compare that Member to the likes of Member Hindsite or Member Finfinder. The difference should be very clear.

[Rich]

The US, clearly? What was the last war that China was in?

Its at war war with India for starters. India killed 43 of the fascist aggressors in June.

[Godstud]

Lies again, @Rich? When will you stop?

[lancer345]

Would not call it a Fascist state, simply because their ideology isn't Fascist.
They simply resemble a Fascist state because Stalinist or Maoist Communism definitely resemble the Fascist state. Still they are different.

It also doesn't help that to the ignorant American or Anglo, anything totalitarian is "fascist". Which is patently wrong.

[Godstud]

China is an autocracy, but it is also, very much, a capitalist state, once you actually look at it.

How China Became Capitalist

Over the past 35 years, China has embraced capitalism not just in the economy. The Theory of Moral Sentiments has more than a dozen Chinese translations; the book has won the heart and mind of premier Wen Jiabao. The message of Adam Smith resonates strongly with the Chinese, not least because of its striking affinity with the traditional Chinese thinking on economy and society. A surprising outcome of China’s transition to capitalism is that China has found a way back to its own cultural roots.

“Seeking truth from facts” is a traditional Chinese teaching, which Deng Xiaoping mistakenly called the “essence of Marxism.” But many facts are still covered in China because a free market for ideas does not exist yet. We are cautiously optimistic that China may well embrace a market for ideas in the decades to come, just like the way it embraced the market for goods in the recent past. As our modern economy becomes more and more knowledge‐ driven, the gains from free exchange of ideas are too great; the costs of suppressing it are too high.
https://www.cato.org/policy-report/janu ... capitalist

[annatar1914]

China is an autocracy, but it is also, very much, a capitalist state, once you actually look at it.

How China Became Capitalist

Over the past 35 years, China has embraced capitalism not just in the economy. The Theory of Moral Sentiments has more than a dozen Chinese translations; the book has won the heart and mind of premier Wen Jiabao. The message of Adam Smith resonates strongly with the Chinese, not least because of its striking affinity with the traditional Chinese thinking on economy and society. A surprising outcome of China’s transition to capitalism is that China has found a way back to its own cultural roots.

“Seeking truth from facts” is a traditional Chinese teaching, which Deng Xiaoping mistakenly called the “essence of Marxism.” But many facts are still covered in China because a free market for ideas does not exist yet. We are cautiously optimistic that China may well embrace a market for ideas in the decades to come, just like the way it embraced the market for goods in the recent past. As our modern economy becomes more and more knowledge‐ driven, the gains from free exchange of ideas are too great; the costs of suppressing it are too high.
https://www.cato.org/policy-report/janu ... capitalist

I guess I'm no longer as amazed as I used to be by all the China-haters out there, considering the Russia-hatred, etc... But it seems rather mad to end the useful relationship between China and the United States, that has been so mutually beneficial for both nations. Well, some people just always want an enemy to focus against...

Anyway, it's clear that China has been Capitalist for some time, Marxist-Leninist Communism is simply quite dead, everywhere.

[Fasces]

Fascism has several characteristics: It is paternalist. It is corporatist. It upholds values of palingenetic nationalism.

Does China meet these characteristics?

1. It is absolutely paternalist, in the most Confucian sense of the term. The state plays the role of distant father figure, which the citizens, as children, must obey and respect - but which also has a reciprocal duty to them.

2. It is not corporatist, at least not any more. Hu Jintao and Jiang Zemin unquestionably were - their contribution to the official policy of the CCP was explicitly class collaborationist, and subsumed class struggle underneath the need to empower the state. However, Bo Xilai and Xi Jinping both represent a far left and moderate left reversal of this policy, respectively, and in recent years the CCP has committed to a socialist identity and a vanguard identity intent on establishing a communist state, explicitly describing China as a transitional socialist state. They have also taken actions to reduce the power of capitalists within China, and empower the party at their expense.

3. Is it nationalist? Kind of. Xi Jinping represents a nationalist wing of the CCP, but it is not nationalist in the sense of national/ethnic identity. Rather, 'China' believes in a syncretic pan-nationalist identity. A western analogue would be 'Roman'. 'Chinese' allows for many national and ethnic identities to exist within it, just as 'Roman' could still allow for many different constituent nationalities. Is it palingenetic? Sort of. It is attempting to restore China to a position of relative greatness it occupied prior to the century of humiliation, and this is arguably a palingenetic ambition.

Is China fascist?



I'd say no, simply because it does not consider itself to be, and is, ostensibly, acting to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat at such a time when material conditions allow it. However, I would say that, given the voice of some factions within the CCP, and the structure of the Chinese state, it is a socialist state with a very real and high risk of degenerating into a fascist one.

Ultimately, fascism empowers the bourgeoisie, China, at the moment, and under the current leadership, uses them as a mechanism for national development. If they should become too powerful, they may subjugate the Chinese state in turn, but at the moment, the CCP is controlling them quite tightly.

[Sivad]

Fascism has several characteristics: It is paternalist. It is corporatist. It upholds values of palingenetic nationalism.

Fascism is totalitarian collectivism. What you're describing is one strain of fascism, there are many. And your analysis is complete bullshit, China checks almost every box for brown fascism.

Russia was the example for fascism. [...] Whether party 'communists' like it or not, the fact remains that the state order and rule in Russia are indistinguishable from those in Italy and Germany. Essentially they are alike. One may speak of a red, black, or brown 'soviet state', as well as of red, black or brown fascism.

[Fasces]

My analysis is based on the definition provided by Roger Griffen, recognized as one of the world's leading experts on fascism as a revolutionary ideology. Yours is based on wanting to tarnish reputation with a political slur.

[Dimetrodon]

I'm going to reevaluate what I said earlier. I'm not saying China qualifies as fascist yet but it seems to be becoming ethnonationalist so it is adopting fascist characteristics. I think the leftist YouTuber in the video above has a good take on China, and he is principled, unlike the PRC supporters.

[Fasces]

It isn't ethnonationalist. Chinese identity includes dozens of ethnic and national identities within it.

[Beren]

I'd say no, simply because it does not consider itself to be

Sure, they consider themselves Marxist and Socialist, however, it's Fascism with Chinese characteristics, with the Politburo as their Grand Council of Fascism.

Ultimately, fascism empowers the bourgeoisie

Exactly.

[Fasces]

I don't think the bourgeoisie, at least in the Marxist sense of the word, are part of the Politburo - but this is more a semantic distinction of ownership vs stewardship and whether the Marxist definition of owner applies in a world of public IPOs and Robin Hood trading apps where McDonald's frycooks can become part owners of Tesla.

[Dimetrodon]

It isn't ethnonationalist. Chinese identity includes dozens of ethnic and national identities within it.

Maybe its not the best term but they are embracing a form of racialist nationalism and calling people who don't like it the equivalent of "race traitor." It's certainly very similar.

[Fasces]

Maybe its not the best term but they are embracing a form of racialist nationalism and calling people who don't like it the equivalent of "race traitor." It's certainly very similar.

Not in my experience, at least, not significantly moreso than the subsection of Americans that define American as 'white, and christian, and vote GOP'.