Despotism - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

The non-democratic state: Platonism, Fascism, Theocracy, Monarchy etc.
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
By Sapper
#29130
Enlightened Despot the Great
by Benjamin “Sapper” H.
ben@benhorvath.com
1490 words

A despot is not necessarily “cruel”, “evil”, or “terrible”. In fact, the word “despot” was first coined as a title given to Justinian of Byzantine as a title of honor, and was later used by the Greek Orthodox Church as a word for their bishops and patriarchs.

Catherine the Great of Russia is a ruler belonging to a group of rulers known as the “Enlightened Despots”, and began her reign by ruthlessly executing her weak husband, the emperor Peter III. She supported the Westernization of Russia and believed that a wise ruler should use reason over passion to improve their country (as she read in The Spirit of Laws, by the French political theorist Montesquieu). When the Pugachev Rebellion (1773-1774) broke out in southeastern Europe, Catherine was quick to put it done, and had its leader was executed. She ruled until died of a natural death in 1796. Frederick the Great, another Enlightened Despot, also held a firm, absolutist grip on his State, and made Prussia an industrialized empire.

These are the kinds of despots I am referring to: one who puts the good of the State and the common good over that of an individual (including the despot himself, and his possessions), is fair, benevolent, just, and strives to progress the State technologically, socially, economically, and internationally. He is much like the great rulers of the Age of Enlightenment, Augustus Caesar, and Napoleon.

And following all of the Enlightened Despots lead, the best despot is one who does not rule with emotion, but reason, objectivity, and logic, because if it is evil for a despot in his furry to destroy a village for the errors of one, it logically is evil for a despot in his sympathy to allow a wrongdoer go unpunished.

These despots are empirical evidence that progress can come through “cruelty” and “absolutism”. The wise despot realizes that he should not care about being considered a “tyrant” or “cruel” if the circumstances call for sacrifice to protect the State, or make critical advancements (e.g., restoring the environment). This should not be considered “cruel”, and if it is, one should not care. Because Catherine murdered her husband and bloodily put down a rebellion does not mean she was “cruel”, as she did it for the benefit of Russia, which had higher priority than the well being of her husband. A despot obviously cannot be held to the same ethics of a common person.

It should, however, be considered cruel if a despot destroys villages for the mistake of one, or pillages and rapes his citizens for selfish material gain, and not for the good of the State. That is true despotic evil.

With that said, if it is necessary to punish or intimidate a few to protect the State and its people, than it must be done, because if the few are not punished and intimidated, they will terrorize the State and its people. One of those two solutions harms the individual only, while the other harms the common good. The first is the humane solution, and the second is truly cruel, and it is so because of too much mercy.

If criminals where not punished, murder, robbery, rape and other such crimes would occur unchecked and destroy the State and its people. So, if it is necessary to eliminate (not necessarily death) a fraction of a quarter of a percent of the people for the benefit of the majority, a despot should not hesitate. And all eliminations must be done mercilessly, efficiently, and in one swift blow.

All of the ruler’s that have earned the title of “the great” and/or have been accepted into the ranks of the Enlightened Despots have all been considered enlightened, fair, and just and not lenient, sympathetic, and merciful. As the empirical evidence points to, each one of these esteemed depots has had to be brutal, cruel, and sometimes wicked to advance their States. The historians have rewarded them with the title of “the Great” or “Enlightened”. No strong, able ruler in the history of the earth has made progress with or without those qualities.

It is foolish to pretend that a despot can rule by being “nice” while still being undemocratic. In the history of the earth, there has never been an undemocratic ruler who has been “nice”, maintained his State and power, and progressed it for very long. On the other side of the coin, there have been examples of people who have ruled their States extremely harsh and totalitarian such as Stalin and Hitler, but still maintained their power, and progressed their State (when talking about the Nazi regime, one must also remember that they did not collapse internally, but where simply outgunned). So if a despot can balance both totalitarianism and leniency, they are excellent, but if they cannot, one will be able to rule, hold their States, and progress it with totalitarianism, while through being “nice” one cannot, as the empirical data proves. If one where to say that a despot cannot rule by fear, I would also say that all one has to do is look at the Catholic Church; the Pope once had immense power, and could easily keep his subjects in line by the fear of going to hell if they disobeyed him. There are, of course, many, many examples from history, while it is interesting to note that there are no examples of one who has ruled by being “nice”.

All able rulers have been skilled in the art of warfare, and most before the 20th century expanded their State through conquest. The mastery of war is essential to a despot, and that cannot be denied. If one does not believe in war or violence, it does not erase its existence, or even make it seem “friendlier”. As Clausewitz said, “War is not merely a political act, but a real political instrument—a continuation of political intercourse—a carrying out of the same by other means.” To kill and die for the State in time of war is the true test, for if one refuses to, they have no business being a fascist, living in this country. All past fascists have thought so.

A despot is respected and honored for keeping lofty ideals by his people and his enemies. However, the wise despot is willing to temporarily (or permanently depending on the circumstances) discard them for the benefit of the State, because if a despot keeps them in practice, he will certainly fall. It is counter-fascist (and sometimes evil) to put one’s individual beliefs over that of the State and its people. The Holy Alliance of the 19th century found this out the hard way, and eventually used it as a facade for acts of absolutism. Thus a despot who loses control of his State for lofty or high ideals that he chooses to carry out fanatically loses his State for foolish reasons.

And if it is necessary to commit “evil” for the future betterment of the State, than it should not be considered “evil”—a word that is too poorly defined and varies from person to person—but “necessary”. Losing one’s State for an ill-defined value is foolish.

So if for the common good it is necessary to deceive to achieve or maintain a despot’s power and continue progressing one’s State, than so be it. Deception allowed Augustus Caesar to achieve and maintain power while progressing the State, and Western civilization (i.e., the Augustan Age). Every wise military general has said that deception is an essential element of war, and it is thus an essential element of the competition for power. It is a tool to be refused by the foolish and the blind, and should not be considered “evil”, for it is for the good of the State. If one where to tell me that a fascist political party should hide nothing, but drop the name fascist and take up a democratic stance, I would call him hypocritical, for while he has repudiated deception, he has also supported it.

And in regards to seizing power, a wannabe despot must separate the “State” of the United States with its obsolete government. If it ever came to sweeping aside the current democratic government with a fascist one, it should not be considered “anti-American” to chose the fascist government, as it is for the good of the State, because a fascist government can get done in a day what it takes the present system a decade to do.

As history has proven, the rulers that have been considered “cruel” and “terrible” have been those bestowed with the “the Great” titles and been named “Enlightened” because of their progress and fairness. The fascist despots of the future will not be called “the Great” or “Enlightened” if they are “nice”, only if they follow the paths of Catherine or Caesar will they be remembered and esteemed, even if they are not during their own reign.
By Jesse
#29150
I read, re-read and enjoyed that essay a great deal. I found myself taking notes to assure I got the major points right, and to assure I wouldn't insult you by making reference to points that were mis-interpreted by my reading of it.

I'm very pleased to see someone so level-headed here, and posting in a sadly underused and under-read forum. I agree entirely, save on a few points.

I do not believe that an individual can rule successfully, as the happiness of its Citizens is ultimately the goal of any state. Instead, I believe a 'picked community' or "Citizens" should be entitled to chose from themselves a smaller council of leaders, who embody the Platonistic ideal of leadership, aggressitivity, intelligence, logic and neutrality. In the words of another intelligent individual here, Enlight, an "aristocracy anyone can join".

You stated somewhere that by acting logically, they are not sympathetic and merciful. They are in fact both of these, just not aimed at individuals. Sympathy is to save the greater whole from disaster by letting a few die. You are sympathetic to the needs of the many.

Secondly, the Nazis were more than outgunned. The fact that Hitler based the stability of his state by propping up his subordinates against each other would mean that inevitably, because the leaders goals were not the benefit of the State and Community, but instead the augmentation of their authority and reputation, the leadership would fail the People, thereby condemning the state.

I quite enjoyed this essay, and will post one of my own in the next little while. Thank you for sharing that with us! (or just me it seems, no-one uses this forum :P)
By Al Khabir
#29231
An excellent article, one which I have saved and will keep! You have inspired me to write my own summation of my veiws on Confucianism (indeed, very similar in some senses to the ones posted here), but for now I would just like to ask a couple of questions-

1. You allow the despot to use Machiavelllian means to stay in power, but what would you advise the people to do if that leader was using his power for ill, to rape his subjects, loot and pillage? Should he stay in power at all costs?

2. Do you think that the despot should be chosen by some democratic means, or through nepotism?

Looks like there's just one more of us here... :)
By Sapper
#29304
That article was intended for an audience of "fascists". I once particiapated heavily in the American Fascist Movement (www.americanfascistmovement.com) forums, and they where once worth something, now they are crap. Nearly every one of them disagreed with the article. They now support the legalization of drugs, pre-teen sex, pacifism, and meekness. They are rather... un-fascist. I do not suggest them.

But I condone a "dictatorship of councils" because some individuals -- not all, of course -- will have a tendency to abuse absolute power. The councils would consist of a dozen or two of the most intelligent of the area's citizens (town's, cities, states, national). I do not believe in voting outside of these councils. To select people for these councils, each person will select a person who meets a certain criteria, and they will be voted on by the entire council (majority will rule in this case, but since they are not ignorant masses...). If they are agreed upon, then when the person dies, the next person will be told about their position. The "heirs" would remain secret within the council for the select's security.

Al Khabir:

A despot is going to always want to stay in power, regardless. Chances are that if they are raping citizens, looting their possessions, then they are already using Machiavellian means to *stay in power* (those acts are not Machiavellian, they harm the state), because no one is going to like such a dictator except the rapists. I do not believe such a despot should be in power, and would try to get rid of him. But chances are, he will do whatever it takes for him to maintain his position.
By Jesse
#29336
I would hope that it would be via a controlled democratic process - Heinleinist citizenism. Nepotism would allow for weak leaders to potentially infiltrate the structure - and weakness in leadership leads to social instability, as well as failed role-models for young, future Citizens.
By Al Khabir
#29458
But I condone a "dictatorship of councils"


This is closer to my line of thinking, however, I do see one problem: one again, Nepotism

each person will select a person who meets a certain criteria


After all, everyone wants to do the best for their family, it is only natural. Admittedly you say that they would have to meet certain criteria, but who would sat these criteria? Hopefully not the councils themselves.

The one other question I have is, would the elitism of this system cause the ruling group to look down on others, and neglect their duty to them?

Aside from this, it seems a very sensible philosophy, and even with loopholes, it can only be better than current democratic systems which have far more.
By Jesse
#29522
I fear any system that holds men higher than one another for immaterial reasons - i.e an inheritance system. Its very archaic nature makes me loathe to embrace it.

I would therefore summarize my argument thusly. We have the groups of Citizens. They elect, from themselves, a "Political Council". Once this Political Council is established, they select, from the Community (or International State) various other committees, the Military Committee, the Education Committee, the Agriculture Committee, etc, based on the individual merit. Laws would be emplaced to prevent relations between members of the Political Committee and, say, a member of the Transportation Committee, interfering with their duties, or, as an extreme, behaving in a nepotistic fashion.
By Al Khabir
#29608
And of course with the introduction of the system, any other small faults could be ironed out as they are discovered.

Thank you both for this most illuminating discussion.
By Sapper
#29662
I agree. Although men are equal at the second they are born, they soon become unequal. The democratic notion that all men are equal is ludicrious. However, ruling just because one has "more money than everyone else" or because of one's parents is also just as ludicrious.

The councils will not chose the criteria. It would be similiar to Ancient Sparta's system -- the councils would each elect one person from their council to represent their section of the government in a certain meeting... say, every five years so that criteria can be adapted. Does this sound good?

I can agree with a select democracy (i.e., "Heinleinist citizenism"), but why not have the best of those class members compose the ruling class themsevles? I also do not think that a purely military-man can rule merely because they were in the military, nor can a purely scientific individual. The ruling elite must be both intellectual, and have a military background, much like General Wesley Clark... although, minus a few faults, of course.
By Al Khabir
#29666
“The blind and the seeing are not equal,
Nor are the darkness and the light.
The shade and the heat are not equal,
Nor are the living and the dead.”

Holy Qu'ran- The Creator

I love this quote, when I take the seeing to mean those with knowledge and the blind to be those who do not learn, and the same for darkness and Light, shade and heat, living and dead. This very much is my point of veiw, a rule by the capable, and I would say that the rule of the most intelligent and experienced is the most important policy. However, I would, like you, definitely include some democratic process to prevent the power of one council becoming too much. Your idea does indeed seem good, as a cabinet comprised of the most able members of each seperate council.

But again, I must disagree on the subject of the military- I believe that they would be counter-productive to this society. There would be plenty of ex military citizens anyway I would imagine, but I would not give them any particular preference. Just to illustrate what I mean by the counter productive role, I would use the Spartan society for the exammple- Sparta never acheived great feats in human advancement, and in the end was destroyed because they could not modernise and change.
By Jesse
#29695
I fear I have not made a point abundantly clear - I am NOT advocating that Citizens solely be ex-military members. Whilst the military is an excellent method to become a Citizen, many other productive careers, i.e. doctor, policeman, teacher, etc, are equally viable. I wanted to make this clear.
By Al Khabir
#29811
Yes, I can defintiely agree with you on that point, but on the other hand I would not like to base the value of the citizen on the career they have. I see now that you do not mean solely military jobs, but even if the citizens were only being drawn from the professions, would this not cause elitism? I would personally be more in favour of a system where the right to vote would be based on the merit of the citizen and their contribution to society, as if the rights to citizenship are only contanned within certain jobs, what incentive is there for the others to better themselves?

What are your thoughts on this?
By Jesse
#30209
I think we suffer from two things - chronic misunderstanding, as well as a totally similar set of ideals. That is what I speak of, I simply use those career paths as a set of examples. I totally believe elitism is dangereous and detrimental to society and the State, and that each person should be judged based on their value and contributions.
By Al Khabir
#30233
I do too much of the chronic misunderstanding thing... I really should try to interpret more often rather than ask... :)
Trump found guilty in hush money trial

Hello, America. I'm Donald John Trump. 45th Pres[…]

It is rather trivial to transmit culture. I can j[…]

World War II Day by Day

So long as we have a civilization worth fighting […]

My opinion is that it is still "achievable&qu[…]