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#13877450
I find it amusing that characters of reality trying to project themselves as mentally superior can only degrade someone else being able to instinctively comprend real as they act out playing a role in their self directed reality by following other people's ideas of maybe nobody can know anything beyond vocabuary and mathematical languages defining what time is to them.

Instinctively by how my body is always in the moment and never stays the same, aging, just as everything of substance does, why it is ideas aren't allowed to adapt but must be adopted in the original text, or those that follow it to the letter and punctuation mark or the figurative value to each digit to become literal and figurative explanations of notion to social identity that demand people obey the concept of time, not the physical balances taking place here is..........

self evident while living within the self containing shpere of self maintaining molecular migration working both the molecules of elements tha the cellular adaption of the whole food chain as we type individually where matter shaped and form forming and shapeing everything taking place cannot occupy the same place in the same instant nothing created stays as conceived in this adapt or become extinct functioning balance that existed and exists for every memeber of every lifetime's s[pecific ancestry that contracted through reproduction to each one here now.

I am not out of my mind, or brain as they are not the same thing. The brain is just an organ of the central nervous system, the mind is the DNA in every fiber communicating through the brain bioelectrically in two directions functioning in the same instant.

Now bright eyes, how does that not short circuit? Simple, it works through induction of magnetic flows in magnetism and electromagnetism working simultainously in right angles to each other as expanding /same poles pushing apart and like poles pulling together work in right angles to each other creating a naturally blancing framework that allows atoms to collectively form what the universe is now being balanced as always here.

Want to see the map to that at the atomic level in 4 dimensional translation?
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Want to see the simpliest way to show cellular adaption added to molecular migration where they work hand in hand now and here compared to humanity's definitions and human results of ancestry?
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Want to see the simpliest way to symmetrically explain the 4 institutions directing reality covering up what is real so the self anointed always stay i9n power of the majority of people just wanting to live as themselves civilly?
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Want to see the results of humanity's governances to the over real for reality's sake you are able to FEEL superior in thought?
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I can use an ancient art and fold your reality into a permanent incomplete travesty against the human population, and include every governance of relaity using the concept time is money.

How revolutionary is that to tradition means of educating people to act as a social identity of humanity's wishful thinking now isn't eternity here now in the making as always?
Humpty Dumpty, The emperor's new clothes, sour grapes, the Midas touch, the three little pgis, and more are the roots to my discovering this instinctive understanding as being an adult I am not allowed to think for myself and when I do it gets called balsphemy and treason or I am out of my mind.

Which is absolutely correct because I am not a character of humanity living in someone else's directed reality while true isn't the truth to being a real sole result of the human population always living now as conceived here on this third rock from the sun.

Have a great tomorrow when it arrived yesterday composing how you need to think today as ordered by society's ruling elites governing education and the arts in entertaining the idea nobody can know real as it has existed forever here and always now.
#13878449
Stranger wrote:How could both of them coexist? What bothers me most is the use of the term 'free will' without any definition. I cannot grasp the concept of acting without cause, since the only other option would be randomness, which doesn't sound very free at all.
Free Will and determinism can coexist in a linguistic set just like yes and no coexist. 'Yes' has a meaning that doesn't apply to everything. 'Free' has a meaning that doesn't apply to everything.

My larger point was that these are words, and not necessarily anything at all in the actual universe or experience of people. The conceptual realm is a map, it can be completely imaginary. The problem of 'what the universe is' isn't something that can be resolved, it is what it is, we have tools to predict with and they are useful or not, but even useful devices can be completely wrong, there are no feet or minutes in the physical laws of the cosmos, but we find making an arbitrary measure more useful than the alternative - not using one.

We aren't "far more complex than most of the stuff going on the universe" either. In the first place I don't see a line separating us from it anywhere. But more directly, a toy robot in a box is far more complex than the box, but the box going in a stack of boxes is more complex than the warehouse, and the warehouse among other facilities is more complex than a road map. And if you want to look to the limits of what we can so far perceive that chain starts with subatomic particles and overarching fields - systems we can't even see in a macro way because we are inside of them.

Again, the matter is not a case of one or the other. Its the same with matters of causality, we have ideas - they don't mean anything apart from their usefulness. The momentum of stars is too big for an individual will (currently) to effect, but there's more to it when you realize that the same forces that produced us produced it - it could have thought and consider itself willing. Scale makes our bodies a world to microorganisms; hearts beat pretty regularly, does that mean they are not very directly connected to some willing agent?

The entire notion that things happen predictably presupposes an omniscient being able to see everything. Even if it were so it's useless to say everything is predictable - though no one is actually able to predict anything with certainty. It's like talking about superheroes, sure we can imagine people with lazer eyes, that doesn't mean there's actual people with lazer eyes.

Stranger wrote:Yes, I should probably mention that I don't think we will ever be able to understand the fundamental 'roots' of the very existence of.. well, anything. You can only objectively observe a system if you are NOT part of it, so it should be impossible. Why we experience ourselves and don't just 'be' as some kind of machine might be the one mystery we will never solve.
That being said, I remain agnostic and while looking at science and humanism I have trouble acknowledging anything outside the realm of causality, mainly because I just don't see the point, it could just be randomness, which is also what quantum theory could imply. Either way, I don't get the 'free' in 'free will'
Why even look at it like that? Taking subjectivity as something which would be better or truer to look at objectively is like preferring a hammer over a pair of hands even when you want to open a jar of pickles. The subjective experience is true when it is subjectively experienced, it's nonsense otherwise.

It's a question of how people perceive themselves. If they see themselves as an agent of change and someone who is capable of determining the future, then they will act accordingly. If they see themselves as being buffeted around by forces beyond their control, they will also act accordingly. However even if we appreciate our individual agency, we also understand that there are forces in existence that are beyond our direct control at this moment.
As the dude in the video said, a passenger on a train is free to do quite alot even though they cannot change the course of the train. Sure, this is a naturalistic way of talking about it, like there's a sort of wavefront, on one side our wills are effective, on the other not. But more than that it's incalculable - what happens - or rather our calculation is a fractal of the calculation rather than the two being separate things. Where does my influence start and yours end? Everything present is collaborating.
#13878909
Suska wrote:
The conceptual realm is a map, it can be completely imaginary. The problem of 'what the universe is' isn't something that can be resolved, it is what it is,
We aren't "far more complex than most of the stuff going on the universe" either. In the first place I don't see a line separating us from it anywhere. But more directly, a toy robot in a box is far more complex than the box, but the box going in a stack of boxes is more complex than the warehouse, and the warehouse among other facilities is more complex than a road map. And if you want to look to the limits of what we can so far perceive that chain starts with subatomic particles and overarching fields - systems we can't even see in a macro way because we are inside of them.


Great, your reality realm is a map, and that is completely imaginary of what real has always been. The universe is able to be resolved and it is very simple to comprehend it's whole while only being one sole result of how it works the same throughout the moment here as nothing of SUBSTANCE stays the exact details as before, or since compounded into the balance that was or is here exactly as balnced into so far with it changing the same way all the time.

Think physical not theoretical physicals defined metaphorically. Don't compare whole parts against each other without comparing all of them to the whole moment here.
Exponential not existential.

Name six points that match the center of six sides separated everything contained within any given instant universally applied.
I have shown a simple origami figure that matches many philosophies of theory and theology into one form.
#13880645
grassroots1 wrote:It's a question of how people perceive themselves. If they see themselves as an agent of change and someone who is capable of determining the future, then they will act accordingly. If they see themselves as being buffeted around by forces beyond their control, they will also act accordingly. However even if we appreciate our individual agency, we also understand that there are forces in existence that are beyond our direct control at this moment. The movement of the planets, the Earth's tectonic activity, etc. Things that are determined by natural processes. We are a product of those natural processes, but we have the ability to observe, reflect, decide, contemplate, etc. Whether or not our paths before us are truly determined is irrelevant ultimately because I think if we hope to be productive and happy human beings, we must BELIEVE in our free will and our ability to progress, change, and determine the future as opposed to being determined by the past.

I thought this was an interesting statement and it made me realize something. A lot of people equate free will with having unfettered power, but they are not the same thing. The will to act and the ability to act are two distinct and different things.

So... does free will exist? I honestly think that the entire question is moot. If you could rewind time, people would probably do the same thing each time you pushed play. But that doesn't mean that people aren't making their own choices.

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