The Fundamental Argument for Atheism - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14761222
Pants-of-dog wrote:I have already done so more than once.

Why should I continue to do so when you do not even agree with your own answer?


All right.
"Do you still think that all atheists have only a lack of belief? Yes or no?"
It isn't the ONLY attribute they have so the answer obviously has to be "no".
Do you get it now?
#14761229
....which means that you think that atheistic beliefs encompass more than just a lack of belief.

Which means that your definition (that atheism is just an absence of belief) is incorrect.

And now you will disagree with me.

And then we can do the whole thing again.
#14761232
Haha, I wonder how many of PoD's posts are of him and someone else going on for pages with these 15 word responses.

Anyway, to chime in, I would say that in name, Atheism is just a lack of religious beliefs. But very often it comes with a lot of other kind of behavioural characteristics. I don't think there can be any fundamental argument for Atheism, it's impossible to prove there isn't any form of God.
#14761240
Paul Sanderson wrote:Atheism is just a lack of religious beliefs. But very often it comes with a lot of other kind of behavioural characteristics. I don't think there can be any fundamental argument for Atheism, it's impossible to prove there isn't any form of God.

I think the term "religious belief" is too vague to be useful as definition of "atheism."

Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

Thus, it is entirely irrational since the existence or non-existence of god cannot be proven by rationality. That is consistent with religious believes; however, it makes a mockery of atheism which pretends to rationality.
#14761245
Paul Sanderson wrote:Haha, I wonder how many of PoD's posts are of him and someone else going on for pages with these 15 word responses.


Really? I think it would be odd to spend intellectual energy on such a mundane question. But hey, people love thinking about me.

Anyway, to chime in, I would say that in name, Atheism is just a lack of religious beliefs. But very often it comes with a lot of other kind of behavioural characteristics. I don't think there can be any fundamental argument for Atheism, it's impossible to prove there isn't any form of God.


My atheist beliefs about the FSM are not just a lack of religious belief. I also know that the FSM was invented by Bobby Henderson in 2005 as a way of discussing the teaching of Creationism in Kansas science classes.

Because of this knowledge, it would seem more correct to say that my atheist beliefs about the FSM involve not only a lack of belief, but a strong belief that the FSM does not exist except as a way of social construct.
#14761252
Pants-of-dog wrote:Really? I think it would be odd to spend intellectual energy on such a mundane question. But hey, people love thinking about me.

It didn't take much intellectual energy, it took about 2 seconds. I came up with "roughly 95%". However, you are indeed the talk of the forum.
Pants-of-dog wrote:My atheist beliefs about the FSM are not just a lack of religious belief. I also know that the FSM was invented by Bobby Henderson in 2005 as a way of discussing the teaching of Creationism in Kansas science classes. Because of this knowledge, it would seem more correct to say that my atheist beliefs about the FSM involve not only a lack of belief, but a strong belief that the FSM does not exist except as a way of social construct.

Flying spaghetti monster? You are talking about yourself as an atheist though, and not what the term atheism means. I would think it's enough to be called an atheist if you say you disagree with the idea of God. I don't see why you need to strongly believe it (whatever that means)
#14761255
Paul Sanderson wrote:It didn't take much intellectual energy, it took about 2 seconds. I came up with "roughly 95%". However, you are indeed the talk of the forum.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Flying spaghetti monster? You are talking about yourself as an atheist though, and not what the term atheism means. I would think it's enough to be called an atheist if you say you disagree with the idea of God. I don't see why you need to strongly believe it (whatever that means)


I never said you need to strongly believe it. For example, my atheism concerning the model of god described in process theology is simply a lack of belief, as I have no logical or empirical evidence against it.

So, my atheism concerning the process theology model of god is different from my atheism concerning the FSM.
#14761265
Pants-of-dog wrote:I never said you need to strongly believe it. For example, my atheism concerning the model of god described in process theology is simply a lack of belief, as I have no logical or empirical evidence against it. So, my atheism concerning the process theology model of god is different from my atheism concerning the FSM.

That's alright then. Why are you not at least agnostic?
#14761274
Atlantis wrote:I think the term "religious belief" is too vague to be useful as definition of "atheism."

Atheism means "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

Thus, it is entirely irrational since the existence or non-existence of god cannot be proven by rationality. That is consistent with religious believes; however, it makes a mockery of atheism which pretends to rationality.

I know atheists who are completely scatty.
#14781603
Late to the party but still,
Agent Steel wrote:Premise 1: The Universe is all that exists

Premise 2: If the Universe is all that exists, nothing can exist apart from the Universe

Premise 3: If nothing can exist apart from the Universe, God can not exist apart from the Universe

Premise 4: If God can not exist apart from the Universe, then God must either exist within the Universe or not at all

Premise 5: God does not exist within the Universe

Conclusion: Therefore, God does not exist.

You are begging the question having gone no length in demonstrating the point that the universe is all that exists - which is central to the claim that god does not exist.

If the response, in turn, is to ask me to demonstrate that something outside the universe exists, I need not respond since it is not the contention of mine that something does - but, rather, that you can't demonstrate it doesn't and, for that reason, your argument fails. Being the individual who is making the claim, the burden of proof rests on you. In fact, if such an argument were to be put forth, it would be an argument from ignorance, which is fallacious reasoning.

Agent Steel wrote:Just as proposition (1), (5) is true by way of definition.

Your claim that nothing exists outside the universe is not true by way of definition. It is unknowable.

B0ycey wrote:Whatever you believe created the universe today relies on faith... and that includes science.

Science, mind you, has been quite clear about not making claims about what created the universe.

Because, as a poster said on page 4-ish, science is a collections of observations about the empirically-knowable universe.

XogGyux wrote:You can use it as evidence that some people BELIEVE there is more than the physical universe, but that is on itself not evidence that something other than a physical universe actually exists.

Using the same line of reasoning, your belief that only the physical universe exists is not evidence that only the physical universe exists.

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N.B. Didn't read the whole thread.
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