[XogGyux]

The title of the thread is a reference to the video and can be regarded as rhetorical (as Matt did too). This is amply reflected in my OP where I describe my approach.

Ok. Fine, consider my responses direct addressing of Dillahunty's video (e.g. it is not off topic as it is part of the OP) and not a direct address to your comments.
Since I was unable to comment on your OP due to my misunderstanding of your meaning I ask that if you want a comment on your statement that you please re-state it as clearly as possible, avoiding the word magic if you don't want to refer to supernatural values (or defining it as you please).

[jakell]

Ok. Fine, consider my responses direct addressing of Dillahunty's video (e.g. it is not off topic as it is part of the OP) and not a direct address to your comments.
Since I was unable to comment on your OP due to my misunderstanding of your meaning I ask that if you want a comment on your statement that you please re-state it as clearly as possible, avoiding the word magic if you don't want to refer to supernatural values (or defining it as you please).

I will continue to put 'magic' in inverted commas, as I've been doing all along, there's nothing wrong with using terms that may be vague as long as we are aware of this and use techniques such as being rhetorical; As I said previously to this line:

Actually, I can't say either way because the word 'magic' is vague, and this is the reason why I used inverted commas in the title.

I'm having to repeat myself a lot here, and I'm wondering if you are taking the piss by being too overly literal and 'not understanding' fairly clear isolated statements. You've already expressed that you regard this subject matter is nonsense and this line is a sure way to stamp it out.

[Atlantis]

I'm sort of with this, but don't regard it as conditioning as such. In the article I cited in the OP, John Michael Greer argues that our binary preference actually comes from our evolutionary development when we needed to make fast decisions between food/enemy etc in order to simply survive long enough to pass on our genes.

I only watched the first 5 minutes of the video because he seemed to go on rambling a bit. Why would it not be conditioning? The "evolutionary development" is conditioning or forming of "habit energy" as Mahayana texts would have it. We view the world through the bias of this accumulated habit energy, which, in a narrow sense, could be called the genetic memory. It is "preference" only from a subjective teleological point of view. The quantum physicist Dr. Duerr, explains this by using the example of primates grasping an apple. When the apple is grasped (or any object is grasped/understood) it is (1), when it is not grasped, it is (0). Thus our intellect is conditioned by the binary 1/0 pattern we need to cope with everyday life. However, this utilitarian binary mode is incapable of grasping the undivided reality in its entirety. In fact, as the analytical sciences fragment the world into ever smaller pieces, we lose sight of the whole.

so it is useful in times of stress or danger, ie it may be hardwired, The trouble is we can habitually fall back on it even when we don't actually need it, and occasionally we still do need to use it.

That's not how I see it. The binary pattern of our intellect determines our everyday thinking and behaviour. It obscures reality as it is. To experience reality without the bias of conditioning we have to transcend this utilitarian binary thinking. At the source of our binary rationality, there is at all times an undivided intuition of reality. Our rationality is like a dead shell of a life source that's constantly rising from the collective mind. Reality is obscured by our conditioned rationality and can only be glimpsed when cracks appear in the armour of our intellect. Beyond the duality of the observer/observed, thinker/thought, the intellect itself is the conditioned binary thinking.

[jakell]

I tend to regard conditioning as something applied to the higher cognitive regions of the mind, usually applied deliberately by another person (or group), this is the context I am familiar with it in. This seems different to me to a hardwired low-level brain function. It's only a matter of terminology though and we seem to be talking of the same thing.

I do find Greer's approach to be compelling, as I do with most evolutionary psychology.

[Atlantis]

I tend to regard conditioning as something applied to the higher cognitive regions of the mind, usually applied deliberately by another person (or group),

I have never taken much interest in psychology, but perhaps this is a limitation inherent in psychology.

From a philosophical point of view, I'm no fan of a deterministic or mechanistic universe. To me, the world arises without external agent, without creator standing outside creation. Thus, there is nobody to apply the conditioning from the outside. There is interdependent arising of all things. Psychology and behavioral science looks at the world of living being; however, I believe there is no hard border between the organic and inorganic world. Thus, what I mean by conditioning applies even before the evolution of organic life.

It is the memory of the past that produces the presence. If that memory is reset, we are in the presence of pure being.

[jakell]

I have never taken much interest in psychology, but perhaps this is a limitation inherent in psychology.

From a philosophical point of view, I'm no fan of a deterministic or mechanistic universe. To me, the world arises without external agent, without creator standing outside creation. Thus, there is nobody to apply the conditioning from the outside. There is interdependent arising of all things. Psychology and behavioral science looks at the world of living being; however, I believe there is no hard border between the organic and inorganic world. Thus, what I mean by conditioning applies even before the evolution of organic life.

It is the memory of the past that produces the presence. If that memory is reset, we are in the presence of pure being.

Greer may seem to be taking a deterministic stance, but it's not that straightforward.

It's not a big stretch to accept that, as we evolved from lower animals, we also retain some of the hardwiring. Greer does claim that higher cognitive functions are more than capable of modifiying our eventual behaviour, but that it is wiser to accept that those lower functions are still hanging around and we need to be cogniscent of them. In other words, finding a 'sweet spot' between our higher and lower natures, rather than thinking wishfully that somewhere along the line we jettisoned this latter.

[RhetoricThug]

Did you read a few sentences in one post and decide to comment?

No, our intellectual faculties are the binary filter created by conditioning through which we view reality.

Reality is being, tathagata, or oneness. The binary pattern of the human mind splits the one into two, you/I, black/white, matter/mind, etc., The two beget the three, the Trinity, that is the link between the two, which is to unite us in the oneness of the divinity. Yet, the binary conditioning of the human mind continues on its relentless dividing routine, like a computer program, thus creating the multitude of the world.

In that sense, three is special since it's to unite the two, but then goes on to create the multitude of the world. The two, matter and mind, don't exist as independent entities, it's just an illusion. The three is the potentiality of quantum physics that creates the world out of nothingness, neither matter nor mind.

Quantum reason (or technique) is the next best ‘metaphor’ (following the chronological compilation of ancestral information as taught & learned through our shared illusory linear space/time experience) or ‘approach’ for semantic mammals attempting to 'grasp' thus 'reverse engineer' noumenon along with its space/time relationship which result in the experience itself. Yet, since the tools we’re using to investigate quantum mechanics tend to be extensions of the experience deduced through the relative translation of human sensation, we may be using a different ‘filter’ or ‘lens’ as we ‘pretend’ to know & understand the same materialized symptoms as they appear & reappear through the medium of our shared dimensional bond.


The idea that our reality contains infinite potential (conscious energy) within multiple dimensions of form (expression) transcends the simplistic world of Newtonian mechanics. We may honor C.S. Peirce for his fixed perspective, but we mustn't applaud his semiosis, due to the nature of each relative translation (defined through induction/deduction) we produce through our applied consciousness. In other words, C.S. Peirce is a product (or byproduct) of his time/space, because the unified field of our applied consciousness determined his logic. Marshall McLuhan (classically trained Grammarian) studied input process output to its logical conclusion, that being: all forms are shaped by the information loop (the medium is the message, talk about brevity). If you follow that reasoning back to the human mind, you find that everything is will & representation and matter is a malleable construct. The unified field of experience is one simultaneous happening, but due to your finite sensibilities you fail to see the whole system.

The world is one symphony and we are instruments creating human music.

No, we invent laws of nature, that are in reality only a reflection of the binary function of human rationality or human conditioning. But to separate from nature is self-defeating. We always rest in Nature. Our rationality invents a world that is separate from nature, even though we cannot exist one single moment separate from nature. It is the rational attempt to understand nature that creates an image of nature as the illusion of a separate existence. That is the original duality inherent in all communication. The futile attempt of the self-trying to see the self, like a puppy trying to catch its tail. The three is to unite us in communication, yet it separates us in non-communication.

Lastly, since human beings are inseparable from the universe & life, we act as complex conduits of light for life. We help change or shape the outside world as the outside world changes our internal thoughts; this curious feedback loop or Ouroboros of living activity is made up of organic & inorganic information bits which continuously, instantly, and simultaneously interact all ways & always. You decode and experience one ‘stream’ of life’s information. The primordial substance vibrates through everything and the microcosm (individual humans) acts as one of many channels for eternity to manifest its ever-changing macrocosm (life/universe).

We operate through the mind/matter INTERFACE, we are the universe. We are information mediums, passing through information mediums, human melodies playing music inside the grand symphony/resonance called reality.

Is it not clear to you, being aware is an information loop? We separate everything and classify data because we must violate the laws of nature in order to survive, therefore we are super-natural organisms. The vehicle or medium we use to apply our consciousness may be called our natural interface and its energy and motion inside time/space dies once our conscious energy 'disappears.'

For real man, read over my posts before disagreeing with a few sentences. As for the rest of your post, go look at what I said to Potemkin. BTW, why do you think I use the title Born Classified? Anyway, I'm not going to continue to post in this thread. You guys have fun.

[jakell]

Did you read a few sentences in one post and decide to comment?

If this is directed at me then the answer is "yes" (or rather I commented, not read, selectively)
This is because I am continuing a theme and not taking tangents.

Please don't change the title here.


ETA: Considering the last paragraph, the remark was not aimed at me (I probably reacted to the title change). It's a shame he won't post here any more, the guy's got a brain and just needs a bit of discipline.

[Besoeker]

Did you read a few sentences in one post and decide to comment?

Quantum reason (or technique) is the next best ‘metaphor’ (following the chronological compilation of ancestral information as taught & learned through our shared illusory linear space/time experience) or ‘approach’ for semantic mammals attempting to 'grasp' thus 'reverse engineer' noumenon along with its space/time relationship which result in the experience itself. Yet, since the tools we’re using to investigate quantum mechanics tend to be extensions of the experience deduced through the relative translation of human sensation, we may be using a different ‘filter’ or ‘lens’ as we ‘pretend’ to know & understand the same materialized symptoms as they appear & reappear through the medium of our shared dimensional bond.


The idea that our reality contains infinite potential (conscious energy) within multiple dimensions of form (expression) transcends the simplistic world of Newtonian mechanics. We may honor C.S. Peirce for his fixed perspective, but we mustn't applaud his semiosis, due to the nature of each relative translation (defined through induction/deduction) we produce through our applied consciousness. In other words, C.S. Peirce is a product (or byproduct) of his time/space, because the unified field of our applied consciousness determined his logic. Marshall McLuhan (classically trained Grammarian) studied input process output to its logical conclusion, that being: all forms are shaped by the information loop (the medium is the message, talk about brevity). If you follow that reasoning back to the human mind, you find that everything is will & representation and matter is a malleable construct. The unified field of experience is one simultaneous happening, but due to your finite sensibilities you fail to see the whole system.

The world is one symphony and we are instruments creating human music.



Lastly, since human beings are inseparable from the universe & life, we act as complex conduits of light for life. We help change or shape the outside world as the outside world changes our internal thoughts; this curious feedback loop or Ouroboros of living activity is made up of organic & inorganic information bits which continuously, instantly, and simultaneously interact all ways & always. You decode and experience one ‘stream’ of life’s information. The primordial substance vibrates through everything and the microcosm (individual humans) acts as one of many channels for eternity to manifest its ever-changing macrocosm (life/universe).

We operate through the mind/matter INTERFACE, we are the universe. We are information mediums, passing through information mediums, human melodies playing music inside the grand symphony/resonance called reality.

Is it not clear to you, being aware is an information loop? We separate everything and classify data because we must violate the laws of nature in order to survive, therefore we are super-natural organisms. The vehicle or medium we use to apply our consciousness may be called our natural interface and its energy and motion inside time/space dies once our conscious energy 'disappears.'

For real man, read over my posts before disagreeing with a few sentences. As for the rest of your post, go look at what I said to Potemkin. BTW, why do you think I use the title Born Classified? Anyway, I'm not going to continue to post in this thread. You guys have fun.

And what, if anything, does the above have to do with the "magic" three. That is, after all, the title of the thread.