Is the speed of light absolute? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14782720
anasawad wrote:@Besoeker
1- the topic is about the speed of light in absolute, i.e the constant.
2- I did answer why its said speed in a vacuum, because there is nothing to interact with in a vacuum, thus the speed of light would be the absolute one.

You claimed I was wrong and it was the same in all mediums.

You have repeatedly shown that to be incorrect. Even in your own links.
#14782723
@Besoeker
Yes, you are wrong. The speed of light is constant, in all mediums.
The average speed, the velocity, the phase velocity differs between mediums because none of those count the interactions that happens with the molecules and atoms of the given medium. The abstract speed of light is constant everywhere. And all the links i have sited show exactly that.
#14782736
anasawad wrote:@Besoeker
1- the topic is about the speed of light in absolute, i.e the constant.
2- I did answer why its said speed in a vacuum, because there is nothing to interact with in a vacuum, thus the speed of light would be the absolute one.
3- For the refractive index, i didn't ignore it, infact you ignored it mutliple times because the index is calculate in ratio of velocities. As i did clearly show.
The law is velocity over velocity in the older versions and c the constant over phase velocities in the newer terminology. Not speed over speed. velocity.
Which not very surprising doesn't fit your point thus you keep ignoring it and claim that 'm the one not answering.
4- obviously you will keep failing to understand, it says the speed it propagates. Its stated like this in all sources including your sources because the people writing them realize that the speed of light it self doesn't change but rather it appears to change when measuring it outside the microscopic realm because it would be taken on a larger distances and scales thus it wont be possible to calculate the delays in which light cease to exist in them when traveling long distances in mediums.

And note, ignored links you gave ? you haven't provided anything so far other than your words while i provided the sources that give the point 'm giving.

Would the time light takes to travel one metre in a vacuum be exactly the same time it would take to travel through a metre of glass?
#14782738
@Besoeker
No, and nevertheless, that still describes average speed or velocity not abstract speed.
Because since there are delays that happen on a microscopic level, then light would be at one point travelling at c and at others not travelling at all.
Infact, let me quote your response to an example i gave that describes simillar case where there are stops in the process:
No. That would be your average speed for the trip. Regardless of direction of travel.

Thats your own words.
Now if its between 2 points which is how the measurement is conducted, then its velocity or phase velocity depending on the criteria.
If its in general, then it would be average speed at best since there are changes in the traveling.
#14782744
anasawad wrote:@Besoeker
No,

Progress !!

anasawad wrote: and nevertheless, that still describes average speed

As the light passes through that one metre of vacuum, would its speed be different at any single point??
Same question for glass.
#14782746
In vacuum, no it would remain the same.
In glass, its speed would be also constant with the exceptions in when its absorbed and simply ceases to exist. So i assume if we want to be simplistic, we can say its "speed" in glass would go from c to 0 and back instantly and constantly multiple times, although there isn't any actual speed for it when it doesn't exist but anyways.

Note: Thats the part you simply skipped over in the definitions about it when they specified that the phase velocity changes and what is actually happening when its said that light is "slowed" down or "stopped".
With the quotation marks being also used for these words in all sources.
#14782765
anasawad wrote:In vacuum, no it would remain the same.
In glass, its speed would be also constant

But not the same as c - you appear to have accepted that.
So different in different mediums - the very point you disputed earlier in this thread.
#14782770
@Besoeker
Really ? Its constant as the speed of light c.
How the hell did you take from what i wrote that i said its different speed.
Ooh wait, you keep doing that all the time since fallacies appear to be your actual major.

Its not different in different mediums. In vacuum regardless of the distance is constant at c.
In mediums, its constant at c, however when measured in longer distances it would be perceived slower due to the fact that light is absorbed by atoms thus ceases to exist.
Thats why the speed of light is constant in all mediums and vacuum alike. The average speed, velocity, phase velocity, etc differs.
Try not to twist words too much since you seem to keep manipulating words and quoting out of context all the time.
#14782777
anasawad wrote:@Besoeker
Really ? Its constant as the speed of light c.
How the hell did you take from what i wrote that i said its different speed..

"Would the time light takes to travel one metre in a vacuum be exactly the same time it would take to travel through a metre of glass?"
Your direct answer (appreciated) was no.
Therefore, if not the same, it would be different to c.
Can't you see that?
#14782779
And considering its microscopic effects we're talking about, speed of light does not differ, average speed over the distance, velocity, and phase velocity differ.
And we're back where we started when i correctly stated you either don't want to or simply incapable of telling the difference between basic terminology in physics. Because so far everything incline that very thing.
And since all the sources support my explanation and my argument and counter yours,the answer is then obvious.

'm not going to argue anymore because its really annoying and difficult to argue with 5th graders.
#14782782
anasawad wrote:And considering its microscopic effects we're talking about, speed of light does not differ, average speed over the distance, velocity, and phase velocity differ.
And we're back where we started when i correctly stated you either don't want to or simply incapable of telling the difference between basic terminology in physics. Because so far everything incline that very thing.
And since all the sources support my explanation and my argument and counter yours,the answer is then obvious.

'm not going to argue anymore because its really annoying and difficult to argue with 5th graders.

Ah, back to the personal insults.
Says it all.
The subject is speed. Speed is an instantaneous value. Average doesn't come into it. You'll get there - maybe.
Go in peace.
#14782884
And considering its microscopic effects we're talking about, speed of light does not differ, average speed over the distance, velocity, and phase velocity differ.

And I've already explained to you why this doesn't matter when we define the refractive index of a medium. The whole concept of the refractive index is a macroscopic concept - it is meaningless to talk about the 'refractive index' of an individual atom. We therefore ignore what is happening on a microscopic scale, and simply assert that the speed of light in a material medium is less than the speed of light in a vacuum. And according to all the macroscopic observations and measurements we make, it is less. I really don't know how to make it any clearer to you.
#14782888
[quote]anasawad wrote:
@Besoeker
1- the topic is about the speed of light in absolute, i.e the constant.

the absolute

a. something that is free from any restriction or condition.
b. something that is independent of some or all relations.
c. something that is perfect or complete.

The Holy Bible reveals that God said, "Let there be light." Therefore, it seems that God controls light and the speed of light.
God can speed it up are slow it down at his will because God has absolute power to create and destroy. If we use the speed of light to measure the speed of light, it will always seem to be the same to us. So for most of our purposes on earth, to consider the speed of light to be constant is good enough for most government work.
#14783119
If we use the speed of light to measure the speed of light, it will always seem to be the same to us. So for most of our purposes on earth, to consider the speed of light to be constant is good enough for most government work.

Wait... what? :eh:
#14783135
Potemkin wrote:And I've already explained to you why this doesn't matter when we define the refractive index of a medium. The whole concept of the refractive index is a macroscopic concept - it is meaningless to talk about the 'refractive index' of an individual atom. We therefore ignore what is happening on a microscopic scale, and simply assert that the speed of light in a material medium is less than the speed of light in a vacuum. And according to all the macroscopic observations and measurements we make, it is less. I really don't know how to make it any clearer to you.


Better quality glass maybe?
8)
#14783164
Lol. I doubt even that would work, Besoeker. He seems stubbornly determined not to concede this point. I really don't know why.
#14783170
Besoeker wrote:
Maybe there is no god.


There is no maybe about it. God exists because God is the Creator.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
HalleluYah
#14783237
Potemkin wrote:Lol. I doubt even that would work, Besoeker. He seems stubbornly determined not to concede this point. I really don't know why.

Although he may deny it, see #14782736 where he has conceded the point.
#14783240
Hindsite wrote:There is no maybe about it. God exists because God is the Creator.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
HalleluYah


Can you stick to the topic which is about the speed of light, not your personal religious beliefs.
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