Most of our seniors don't deserve respect - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14785561
[quote="QatzelOk"]Having time to think is absolutely essential, but so is having a disposition to think in terms of collective well-being and Big Picture.[/quote]
Agreed.

[quote]If you spend your youth watching a lot of media and buying a lot of status objects, you are not being trained to think this way. You end up retiring and consuming "old people" products and services the way that young TV-watching children are trained to consume young person products and services. Rather than "wise," you become a prodigious consumer of pre-packaged travel and pain killers.[/quote]
I disagree.

Kids under 12 can't really think in terms of the abstract, but they can and do become accustomed to them, if they hear them being discussed around the dinner table. It doesn't require hours of time. When they're older, they can discuss them in detail as we (meaning my friends and I) did at University.

[quote]if you grow up in a socially-dead societies like most of North America, your "thinking" is retarded by a lack of opportunity to discuss Big Picture with a wide variety of human being types all your life. Lack of wisdom starts very young, and is caused by lack of wisdom-developing habits and social expectations.

Suburbia cuts off the variety of experiences, as do income inequality and mass media consumption. You need to get away from these things if you want to be wise, but if you do, you will be socially rejected - which most people find hellish.[/quote]
You've advance this position for as long as I can remember.

It isn't socially dead. People don't stop talking or thinking anywhere. Anywhere.


[quote]With no disposition to think in general terms, old people just become snickering old fools - clever enough to get away with cheating on their diets and excercise routines, but not wise enough to help anyone with accrued knowledge or interesting perspectives.[/quote]
Not everyone reads Socrates. Not everyone jogs into their 90s. Doesn't mean they can't think.

The original inhabitants of North America were extremely reverent of their seniors. And also, of nature. There's a link.
Note: Citing a few posters on pofo as proof of a general theory... is very weak methodology. My use of "most" already accounts for outliers (if they are outliers, which you haven't proven).
I agree, but they're the only ones we have in common, and that's four more then you've supplied of those who revered their seniors or the seniors themselves. How about a little evidence to support your claims?

How about defining terms like "big picture" thinking

How about starting a few threads?



[usermention=16462]@Godstud[/usermention]
Qatz has been stuck on this meme for years. North America sucks, it's culturally dead, cars are satanic, etc. One minute he's telly us farmers were the great thinker, next he wants us to move into the cities. I have no idea what he means by big picture thinking, but I would argue that many of the issues Socrates grappled with are still being debated.

Boomers and Gen Xers have advanced technology and science, giving us a peak into some of the more obscure elements, ie, seeing so far back time to almost the big bang.

As to this stuff about the collective well being, Dr Lee pointed out the Canadian health care system. I'd add our education system, still affordable, our pension, still available etc. Socially, we've become one of the most egalitarian on the planet. Most of this is since WWII, some because of boomers and Gen Xers.
#14785609
Nonsense wrote:I was born in the early 1940's,post war Britain,

You are not doing us seniors any great favours.
The war was 1939 to 1945 as I recall. So post war was not early forties.
I might as well say I was around before the Dead Sea reported in sick.............. 8)

So I can confidently assert that I am a senior junior deliquent.
Do I deserve respect?
No one deserves respect regardless of age. It has to be earned.
#14785697
Defending the social capital of suburbia, Godstud wrote: You're not reading. I knew all my neighbors. All the kids in the neighborhood played together.

Social capital is not supposed to be something that ends at puberty. And it's sad and unwise for your social horizon to be limited to your subdivision. This is what creates "the suburban hick" syndrome that has made us so dumb as a society. Subdivisions are homogenous. The city is mixed. Why do you think "white flight" was (is) a thing.

Flying kites is fun (for a day) but... it's not as fun as playing on the city streets, inventing your own games, and with all the different kids in the area... and exploring other areas by bike or tramway. The traditional way of socializing with multiple "types" built character and sophistication. The suburban dead-end playground builds a "get the hail offa ma propehty" mentality which is very anti-social and selfish.

But alas, I just don't have the time to answer all the ad hominum attacks that tried to make this thread ALL ABOUT THE QATZ BRAND. So to build my point, here's a little video of suburban wisdom aimed at all those drunk, retired seniors in their RVs in Florida.

[youtube]jd5q5aBVnS4[/youtube]

Also, don't forget to pack your kite! :lol:
#14785756
Besoeker wrote:You are not doing us seniors any great favours.
The war was 1939 to 1945 as I recall. So post war was not early forties.
I might as well say I was around before the Dead Sea reported in sick.............. 8)

So I can confidently assert that I am a senior junior deliquent.
Do I deserve respect?
No one deserves respect regardless of age. It has to be earned.



As I recall it, I never said that, " post war " was 'early' forties.

"I was born in the early 1940's,post war Britain"... :O ,what's that comma doing there? :eek: :roll: :roll:

As you say, " respect has to be earned". :roll: :roll:
#14785800
If the war ended before the early 40s, why were so many people voluntarily dying in air raids and hydrogen bomb attacks? Were they the first "post-war" victims of post-modernism?

Also, did WW2 make the generation that was born after it.... wise?

Or did WW2 (and the preamble to it) convince the elites that the wisdom that comes from living in a tight-knit community had to be killed in the womb?

Suburbia and television are post-war (1950s) phenomena, just like many of today's unwise seniors are.

Image
#14785814
@QatzelOk Yeah, I'll just do what you do and ignore pretty much all of your post.

You're blind to reality because it doesn't fit your anti-everything meme. Fuck your Qatzelok brand. It's sanctimonious and ego-driven. You are that soon-to-be senior that you're ranting against, and you're nothing special.
#14785815
QatzelOk wrote:Or did WW2 (and the preamble to it) convince the elites that the wisdom that comes from living in a tight-knit community had to be killed in the womb?

Suburbia and television are post-war (1950s) phenomena, just like many of today's unwise seniors are.

This is why you need to define your terms. Most seniors are retired, the ones you called wise. Most Boomers and Gen exers work.

Also, there a huge portion of the population that live in cities, in fact more today then ever before. Why are we loosing wisdom? Why don't you think suburbia isn't culturally mixed?
#14785820
Don't encourage Qatzelok's rants. That's all they are, since he actually doesn't address your arguments, more than picking out one line and then making up shit as he goes along. His arguments are anti-societal propaganda, and that's all they are.
#14786040
Here comes Drlee to talk about results, as if he hasn't obviously been consistently wrong about politics for decades. What's next, the guilt trip or reminding us how rich you are?


If you have a point to make son, try to make it. Next time your mom lets you use the computer do try to act like an adult.
#14786081
Stormsmith wrote:This is why you need to define your terms. Most seniors are retired, the ones you called wise. Most Boomers and Gen exers work.

I kept the term "senior" intentionally vague since we are all (hopefully) going to be seniors one day. And the wisdom that comes with being a "senior" can happen at any age between 40ish and 60ish. There's no mathematical starting point to wisdeom, but it happens when you get to be a "senior."

Also, there a huge portion of the population that live in cities, in fact more today then ever before. Why are we loosing wisdom? Why don't you think suburbia isn't culturally mixed?

Most "city" dwellers now live in their cars and in front of their television sets or Netflix, and it was suburbia that killed normal socializing. Walking and talking to people whose paths you crossed... on foot.

Godstud wrote:You're blind to reality because it doesn't fit your anti-everything meme. Fuck your Qatzelok brand. It's sanctimonious and ego-driven. You are that soon-to-be senior that you're ranting against, and you're nothing special.

You seem to really understand reality to the point of telling everyone that reality is about building a community by flying kites on a lawn in the suburbs. This isn't reality. It's YOUR reality, and it's really YOU who seems to lack the necessary distance between the society you grew up in, and its major flaws.

Also, your ad hom attacks are really personal, which isn't really very wise or interesting. And it shows that, beyond "I'm okay: I flew kites," you don't have much to contribute to a discussion on sociology or political economy.

No offense, but if your main strong point is personal attacks that defend whatever status quo phenomenon, you should be chatting on a celebrity gossip forum saying what a "skank" your least favorite Kardashian is.
#14786126
Also, your ad hom attacks are really personal, which isn't really very wise or interesting.


You started this thread and now you are concerned that you have been insulted? :lol:

Aren't you a special snowflake.
#14786187
Yes, Qatzelok, all I did was have a lawn and fly kites. :roll: You ignore everything else because it doesn't fit your meme. I suspect all you did was bicycle around yelling at suburbanites, whom you were jealous of. Your apparent unhappiness is obvious in every post you write.

You can't acknowledge the very social and community conditions that existed then(in the suburbs), and do in fact, exist to this day, if people want to engage in them. Your argument is very poor and so you turn to your own form of ad hominems(you started this thread by insulting pretty much every senior on this board via a broad ad hominem) and cherry picking.

The inner city is not some font of community, or social interaction. It can be just as devoid of life as any of your imagined suburbs, Qatzelok. It can also be as diverse and active as any suburb can.

Very soon you'll be a senior, Qatzelok, and you'll be that which you hate. You're a Boomer. I can see the self-hate oozing from you.


(edit:grammar)
#14786196
Godstud wrote:Your apparent unhappiness is obvious in every post you write.

Um... I'm not trying to prove that I'm happy with this thread. I'm trying to find out if suburbia, the private automobile, and mass media ruined the last two generations as far as being reservoirs of useful knowledge.

If you're trying to prove you're happy in this thread, then your methodology is likely to frustrate you. This thread is an example of "critical thinking" and not of status seeking behavior like you find along the rows of driveways on dead-end suburban streets.

Living close to other people in the city makes you understand how silly ethno-centric status objects are. And - worse than silly - some of them might even make their consumers... unwise.

We get it. We at the QatzelOk brand understand your need to express your happiness in threads. But we're just advising you to stay within the realm of critical thinking in order to improve the posting experience for everyone.

Not just for the people who fly kites on your lawn with huge smiles on their faces.

And GS, thank you for providing useful evidence. :D
#14786199
I'm trying to find out if suburbia, the private automobile, and mass media ruined the last two generations as far as being reservoirs of useful knowledge.
Only in your own extremely biased opinion.

I'm not trying to prove I am happy, I am demonstrating your inaccuracies. You obviously don't know anything about the suburbs. I can see that by what you post. You're looking at it from the outside, and a very skewed perspective.

You have no evidence, and can't convince anyone else of your "car/suburban theory". The onus is on you to provide the evidence of this suburban decay. Alas, you cannot provide evidence, however.

Happiness is important to humans. Didn't your alien overlord inform you of this before dropping you off?
#14786201
Godstud wrote:You have no evidence, and can't convince anyone else of your "car/suburban theory". The onus is on you to provide the evidence of this suburban decay.

This is The Agora - philosophy. I have provided lots of "proof" in the form of rhetoric and others have provided dialogue. And the main point isn't just about suburban decay. It's about the side effects of living in isolated, car-dependent housing.

First you were trying to demonstrate how much happier you are than this thread is, and now you're looking for graphs from Business Insider that show how much Wisdom-dioxide per billion particles a random sampling of certified, grade A seniors contains. If I were a priss-bag, I'd point my finger and tsk-tsk you for being inappropriate.

Seriously. Wisdom is predominantly the ability to speak and understand philosophy. And it can only be developed if you are permitted, in your life, to speak frequently about a wide variety of subjects with a large strata of humans.

So much of Modern Life - especially in commercial nations - has been turned into empty status consumption (happy lawns, high-profile kite collections) that involves killing those special moments "between" things.
Last edited by QatzelOk on 16 Mar 2017 01:38, edited 1 time in total.
#14786202
I've provided even more proof that your argument is invalid.

Don't talk about wisdom. You really have no clue what it is.
#14786292
Qatz seems to have moved significantly away from the thrust of the thread title. Now he is not blaming seniors for being shallow, but is blaming the modern world for producing that reaction in people. Sort of what I was saying here:

jakell wrote:...Here you seem to be referring to the behaviour stemming from the perceived prosperity following WWII, especially in the last quarter of the 20th century, and it's an easy thing to criticise given hindsight. The question I would ask is would you have behaved any differently at the time (assuming you are able to perform such a thought experiment), personally I think I would have gone along with the herd as well.
This I what I meant by 'looking beyond it'.. a recognition that their weaknesses are our weaknesses too.


He keeps saying how he is trying to be 'philosophical', but a dumb title (and supporting OP) is not a good way to go about it.
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