Party Forever with Superman - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

For the discussion of Philosophy. Discuss thought from Socrates to the Enlightenment and beyond!

Moderator: PoFo Agora Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. Religious topics may be debated in this forum, but those of religious belief who specifically wish to avoid threads being derailed by atheist arguments might prefer to use the Spirituality forum.
#14938494
A local man just got off of doing jail time. He was originally tried for leaving his young baby in a hot car, in which the baby actually died of heat stroke. It's illegal in Quebec to leave a baby in a car alone, like it is in many other areas of the world.

If you are Abrahamic, you can console yourself by imagining that the baby went directly to heaven where he is now seated at the right hand of the creator of the universe, and is living in a perfect paradise forever.

Abrahamics (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) can all make sense of modern life by imagining partying forever with Superman after death.

If pollution, war, and environmental decay kill off our species, Abrahamics can dream of everyone nice (of their faith) partying forever with Superman.

The First Nations of North America believed (in their spiritual tradition) that it was imperative to preserve and protect nature. Perhaps protect it FROM Superman?

For their lack of respect for second-hand European mythology, these nature-preserving groups were genocided, and the local Abrahamics were pretty sure that these disrespectful types were NOT going to party forever with Superman after death, like they themselves were.

Europeans (and the other mercenaries that were brought in by Euros) found the whole "protect nature" thing very useless and superstitious. These mercenaries were educated and sophisticated enough to know that Superman had spoken to shepherds a few thousand years before, and had explained how to get into "party forever with Superman" mode.

Euros (and other mercenaries) were like: "Screw birds, bees, rivers and forests, we're going to party forever with Superman!"

Image
soundtrack
#14938506
I almost cut myself on your edge, Qatz... Oh, man, I'm so offended. Did you really just refer to the triune God as a sort of "superman," and mock the idea of heaven as fantastical..? Did you imply that Christians don't care about justice because of their "party" in Heaven?

I don't know. What's the substance. Cosmic justice is invalid because it sounds funny when you talk about the souls of infants going to heaven?

Lastly, there is plenty to imply that good stewardship is a part of the Biblical narrative, whether in references to the creation story (or should I say "CREATION MYTH?! Am I right?!") or more mundane rules about not muzzling the ox while he treadeth out the grain.

In fact, you can almost see "go green" guys randomly sharing listicles about "8 Bible passages that support environmentalism that'll be sure to piss off your conservative uncle!"

But that's all irrelevant because we can refer to some nebulous, undefined Native American tradition about religion being about preserving the environment for the future, as if the people who drove bison off of cliffs resulting in thousand of tons of rotting meat were on a completely different trajectory than us that would have never had them abusing the environment... Ever.

You know, guys, we can make snotty, snobby posts full of bad takes on liberal ideas as well. Indeed, we even elected a President who now does that.
#14938511
Verv wrote:...some nebulous, undefined Native American tradition about religion being about preserving the environment for the future...

I understand your point of view, Verv.

Who cares about preserving the Earth when we're all going to party forever with Superman once it's been destroyed (by us Superman worshippers). This is what makes "destroying our own food sources" look so appetizing to hard-working lemmings like us.

And you haven't even dented the narrative of the Abrahamic long-term mission. In fact, you attempt to bolster it by suggesting that First Nations "were on the same trajectory as us" (what other possible trajectory could exist?) and that they would have continued to expand and industrialize even after they realized that this would ultimately destroy the possibility of future generations of our own species and many others. You are saying that these "nature-worshippers" would eventually realize that our purpose (All of us) is to alter and destroy our environment in order to party forever with cartoon characters of our own making.

Europeans really did find the "preserve nature" narrative silly. Eventually, Europe's Abrahamic philosophers like Bacon and Descartes will "inform us" that other animals are just meat on four legs, and the environment is just a blank canvas on which to paint miracles (technology) and our love of Superman.

Jeffrey St. Clair wrote:...Descartes postulated that animals were mere physical automatons. They were biological machines whose actions were driven solely by bio-physical instincts.
...
Francis Bacon declared in the “Novum Organum” that the proper aim of science was to restore the divinely ordained dominance of man over nature, “to extend more widely the limits of the power and greatness of man and so to endow him with “infinite commodities. ...”
#14938585
I think that the reason why the native Americans would have eventually resembled Europeans closely in their relationship to nature is because the Maya, the Aztecs, and such, also began wrecking the environment, right.

It's pretty human to eventually want to improve your economy and make a profit, and to disregard others toward that end, and something tells me that people who were willing to cut open strangers hearts and feed them to Huitzilopochtli weren't exactly going to balk at open pit mining.

I also feel like we think of nature overly romantically while we have the air conditioner blowing down on us. Oh, yes, I do agree with you that nature is beautiful and that there is something very honest about it, and that it should be preserved indefinitely, etc., but we are being too romantic and just painting with broad strokes to demonize our beautiful Christian faith.

... Moreover, I think that a lot of people approach theology with a very amateur and unrefined perspective.

That's OK. I understand. I get it. A lot of us have not been paying attention to theology. But some of us have been. It's actually really bad to just throw stuff up there from your 12 year old understanding of Christian theology and pretend that that is the long & short of it.
#14938614
Verv wrote:and something tells me that people who were willing to cut open strangers hearts and feed them to Huitzilopochtli weren't exactly going to balk at open pit mining.


^ almost poetic in its brilliance. Well said.

I also have found it kinda disturbing how most of the conservatives I have met have been far more environmentally conscientious than the leftists I have met, and there seems to be data to support it:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/pl ... t-at-home/

But this is typical. Big surprise, but the New England and European leftists who seek to redistribute wealth to help the poor are nowhere near as charitable as the red state white Christians who are against state hand-outs.

Its easier for hipsters sit in their Seattle cafes bitching about environmental degradation demanding government action then to actually go out and start a self-sustaining farm off-grid, conservatives are more likely to do that in all reality because it involves work and self-reliance and capital labor (usually in the form of having children). Besides the fact that there is no egalitarianism on primitive farms, that delusion ends REAL FAST when its time to do the heavy lifting.

Same thing with charity, leftists believe in having revolutions against their neighbors and their oppressors, Christians are just called to be charitable. IT didn't matter that a good portion of the stranded in Houston were blacks in the inner city, the racist white christian rednecks went with their fishing boats to save them because that is the Heart of the Gospel. Where were all the occupy wall-street and antifa commies when the flood waters came?

Joel Salatin is arguably the godfather of the organic, grass-fed, sustainable farm revolution and he is a Christian, white, libertarian. This is not just a coincidence. His intellectual inspiration "Wendell Berry" was a leftist, but was unable to create a movement like Salatin did because Salatin as a Christian libertarian focused on the aspect of "doing it" not "making others do it."

The former generates action, the latter generates complacent outrage. That is how its always been.
#14938618
Well Verv and Vic, neither of you has defended the worship of Superman, nor have either of you demonstrated that heaven (partying forever with Superman) is an example of sophisticated philosophy.

The OP suggests that the Earth is doomed because it is dominated by people who believe that they will one day party with Superman.

All you guys have said is "The Natives would have had open-pit mining" (if Superman-worshippers hadn't genocided them). Not credible or relevant to the thread. And these murderous Superman-worshipping Euros, a few centuries before, used to worship nature themselves. Superman was forced onto Europeans by Super-Rome.

The thread is saying that Abrahamics are philosophically retarded, and this retardation (mixed with power) is leading us to extinction.

Your unqualified projection of "what First Nations would have developed into" is probably the kind of irrational thought that Superman worship leads to. And by the way, the Aztec, Mayans and Incas were all Superman worshippers. And they were also in rapid decline when Europeans found and then destroyed their civilizations. So your "point" is weak on many fronts if you want to defend "heaven" (partying forever with Superman) as a civilizational and personal objective, and claim that it's not suicidal when practiced by large groups.
#14938625
QatzelOk wrote:The thread is saying that Abrahamics are philosophically retarded, and this retardation (mixed with power) is leading us to extinction.

Your unqualified projection of "what First Nations would have developed into" is probably the kind of irrational thought that Superman worship leads to. And by the way, the Aztec, Mayans and Incas were all Superman worshippers. And they were also in rapid decline when Europeans found and then destroyed their civilizations. So your "point" is weak on many fronts if you want to defend "heaven" (partying forever with Superman) as a civilizational and personal objective, and claim that it's not suicidal when practiced by large groups.


@Verv note that we weren't tagged in Qatz last bit of whining above.

:violin:

Also note this phrase:

"Philosophically retarded"

I'll take you to the mat on philosophy any day Qatz, want to take a shot? Christianity is the apex of western thought.

As for destroying the world?

Isn't it the Dharmic civilizations of India and China that are some of the worst polluters and destroyers of the environment on earth? Even when compared to western nations?

Of the TOP 5 worst polluting, 3/5 are non-Abrahamic adherents.

https://www.activesustainability.com/en ... countries/

Perhaps we should have a conversation of the suicidal and self-destructive nature of the Dharmic peoples.

Perhaps their lack of belief in theism needs to be reconsidered.

After all, the humanism inherent in the dharmic faiths instead of relying upon a single superman, makes every man a superman. Its no surprise therefore that such a narcissism would lead to environmental degradation after all.

See! I can make stupid generalizations too. :lol:
#14938628
@Victoribus Spolia I'm not really sure why you're bothering. Every Qatz thread consists of the following formula:

1. Dress up junior high school-level epiphanies about how The Man is like, controlling you, man, as some kind of breakthrough in western thought.
2. Patronise and idealise Native Americans and non-Europeans to an extent not seen since the peak of 18th century Noble Savage sentimentalism. If possible, find a way to enlist the people of Quebec as a brutally oppressed minority.
3. Repeat ad nauseam.
#14938679
Ter wrote:Although slightly puzzled, I liked it when Qatzel talked about "the texts".
I never knew what he meant but I found it interesting :excited:


I think i know.

Image
#14938698
Descartes postulated that animals were mere physical automatons. They were biological machines whose actions were driven solely by bio-physical instincts.

Which is basically true, he just didn't make his observations complete and say Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a biophysical machine too.
#14938731
Beren wrote:Which is basically true, he just didn't make his observations complete and say Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a biophysical machine too.

He separated animals and humans, just like Superman texts do. These "great philosophers" were also waiting to die so that they could party forever with Superman. What they wrote was partially an attempt to score themselves a free ticket.

Victoribus Spolia wrote:Christianity is the apex of western thought.

That's exactly my point. This is all we were capable of coming up with after a few millennia of killing one another and hundreds of other cultures. "We follow a text so that we can live forever with Superman."

This seems like the "conclusion" of a very dumb culture that is destined for extinction. That the Mayans and Aztecs were also Superman-worshippers and in decline, seems to suggest that this is the wrong way to go if long-term survival of your species is the goal.

Of the TOP 5 worst polluting, 3/5 are non-Abrahamic adherents.

Abrahamic Superman-forever-dreamers industrialized the world at gunpoint, with crosses, and moons, and stars of David on their lobby walls. These are the 'S'-for-Superman logos of our upcoming super-extinction.

Dumb philosophy leads to extinction, no matter how big your guns, cathedrals, and McMansions are. And rich people (rich mercenaries, particularly) can never see that they are wrong. They're rich (have more than others) so they're right, in their minds. And Superman would probably agree with them... if he wasn't a made-up cartoon character.

--------------

Day 1: Partied all day with Superman. It was the perfect day and I felt great the entire time.
Day 2: Partied all day with Superman. It was the perfect day and I felt great the entire time.
Day 3: Partied all day with Superman. It was the perfect day and I felt great the entire time.
...
Day 609,995: Partied all day with Superman. It was the perfect day and I felt great the entire time.
etc.
#14938734
Imagine if the French Revolution had been canceled for religious reasons.

No one would have been killed, no property of the rich would have been stolen, but the French population would have starved to death... and then partied forever with Superman.
...
Partying forever with Superman is a great reason not to do anything in this life to improve future generations chances of survival. And that's exactly what it has been used to prevent.
#14938735
QatzelOk wrote:He separated animals and humans, just like Superman texts do.

Everyone separates animals and humans, and the guy lived four centuries ago after all. However, he wasn't wrong about animals, he was wrong about humans.
#14938852
Victoribus Spolia wrote:As for destroying the world?

Isn't it the Dharmic civilizations of India and China that are some of the worst polluters and destroyers of the environment on earth? Even when compared to western nations?

Of the TOP 5 worst polluting, 3/5 are non-Abrahamic adherents.

Well, for sure a billion people in India create more pollution than a few million elsewhere. But for a look at just how much damage individual Superman-worshippers do, look at per capita.

This chart demonstrates at what point in the year that the Earth's humans would have used all the year's production of resources if humanity lived like the people of various nations.

Image

Canadians and Americans are among the worst parasites on Earth. And having been to Cuba which is very close to sustainable on the chart, we ultra-parasites in North America actually have worse lives than Cubans do in the sense of being less happy and having less free time.

All the destruction and misery we Westerners are inflicting on ourselves and the Earth are all... so... we... can...party... forever... with... Superman.

On a philosophical scale, the rich nations of the earth are infants, though we are armed to the teeth.
#14938888
If there were only 2.5 billion people on earth we all could live like Germany, France, Switzerland, the UK, or Japan sustainably.
#14939047
You did not address the issue humankind must face. You're critiquing expressions of human thought, instead of criticizing the process behind human thought. The issue isn't a word or geometric structure (organized pattern of reality), such things are merely signs & symptoms which may be indicative of an underlying perception of reality or the way we're structuring our judgements in response to overlying material forms/forces. It's quite clear that any negative quality Qatz (which, by the way, is a reflection of Qatz inner psychology/personality. Unless, of course, he's a troll and not a sincere forum image) can attribute to an interpretation or pattern of perception humans use as a behavioral operating system (ie: organized religion, organized politics, etc) in order to explain quandaries, is his way of conveniently packaging an interpersonal grievance and placing blame on an abstract egregore so he doesn't have to investigate our current understanding of the human family. Nonetheless, blame is escapism. And any grievance or structural problem found within human relations can be found across various human societies as a potential anthropological universal (note the word potential, meaning to say that such qualities can be propagated and cultivated by any human society), and therefore it's logically fallacious to deduce all forms of visibly expressed problems to one concept or idea.

After-all, one concept or idea is a synergistic thought form founded upon an interrelated human experience, ideas do not exist independently, ideas come out of other ideas. All ideas exist inside the realm of human thought, and a human mind is a linear operator completely enveloped in a polycentric cloud of sensation. Enfolded in its unfolding, thought or ABC-XYZ moves within this happening called consciousness, but we're limited by existential disposition, and the whole of consciousness without is an infinite movement passing through/within us, and thought gives us the illusion that we're responsible for IT. In reality, an idea is a fragment of our collective awareness. But Individuals like to think thus believe in self-actualized fragments of reality and are driven by their cyclopean or tunnel vision, and this is fundamentally the issue humankind must face.

We must recognize that our thoughts and behaviors interconnect inside a network called the human experience and the network called the human experience is a pulsating interval of phenomena operating inside a larger celestial network. We're infinite consciousness having a finite human experience, but we've fallen in love with our individual images or myths. Unfortunately, instead of following the process from which such problems arise, Qatz has constructed a quasi-sincere critique in which he places the cart before the horse. The cart, in this particular case, is the external expression of human thought or actions of the past. The horse, in this particular case, is the internal thought pattern responsible for our actions. A behavior complex is in a state of active biochemical interplay with the mind/matter interface. Action informs thought and thought informs action, and the human mind is capable of discernment. As ONE collective conscious, humankind is in a self-fulfilling struggle with itself.
QatzelOk wrote:A local man just got off of doing jail time. He was originally tried for leaving his young baby in a hot car, in which the baby actually died of heat stroke. It's illegal in Quebec to leave a baby in a car alone, like it is in many other areas of the world.

If you are Abrahamic, you can console yourself by imagining that the baby went directly to heaven where he is now seated at the right hand of the creator of the universe, and is living in a perfect paradise forever.

Abrahamics (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) can all make sense of modern life by imagining partying forever with Superman after death.

If pollution, war, and environmental decay kill off our species, Abrahamics can dream of everyone nice (of their faith) partying forever with Superman.

The First Nations of North America believed (in their spiritual tradition) that it was imperative to preserve and protect nature. Perhaps protect it FROM Superman?

For their lack of respect for second-hand European mythology, these nature-preserving groups were genocided, and the local Abrahamics were pretty sure that these disrespectful types were NOT going to party forever with Superman after death, like they themselves were.

Europeans (and the other mercenaries that were brought in by Euros) found the whole "protect nature" thing very useless and superstitious. These mercenaries were educated and sophisticated enough to know that Superman had spoken to shepherds a few thousand years before, and had explained how to get into "party forever with Superman" mode.

Euros (and other mercenaries) were like: "Screw birds, bees, rivers and forests, we're going to party forever with Superman!"
This philosophy of mind can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=173128 Where Qatz uses the exact same formula to criticize other expressions of human thought. Only this time, instead of debt as an absolute human construct, Qatz mocks the notion of the Absolute. This is entertainment, not philosophy. His critique lacks careful consideration for the nuance of human behavior and is full of black & white generalizations.

Verv wrote:I think that the reason why the native Americans would have eventually resembled Europeans closely in their relationship to nature is because the Maya, the Aztecs, and such, also began wrecking the environment, right.

It's pretty human to eventually want to improve your economy and make a profit, and to disregard others toward that end, and something tells me that people who were willing to cut open strangers hearts and feed them to Huitzilopochtli weren't exactly going to balk at open pit mining.

I also feel like we think of nature overly romantically while we have the air conditioner blowing down on us. Oh, yes, I do agree with you that nature is beautiful and that there is something very honest about it, and that it should be preserved indefinitely, etc., but we are being too romantic and just painting with broad strokes to demonize our beautiful Christian faith.

... Moreover, I think that a lot of people approach theology with a very amateur and unrefined perspective.

That's OK. I understand. I get it. A lot of us have not been paying attention to theology. But some of us have been. It's actually really bad to just throw stuff up there from your 12 year old understanding of Christian theology and pretend that that is the long & short of it.
It's a human problem, NOT a European, Mayan, Aztec, Native American, theological... ... ... problem. Furthermore, we need to stop pretending nature is something separate from ourselves (your body is a barrier and a bridge). Words can have a negative impact on the human psyche, because words as environmental descriptions compartmentalize environmental phenomena. This is a systemic problem because we use words to organize society. If our words compartmentalize or fragment aspects of nature, human society will compartmentalize or fragment aspects of nature. Hence why human society isn't living in harmony with Earth. Human thought, as a human problem is constantly dividing phenomena for a communication process that's intrinsically constrained by the limits of human language.

A communication process
For tribal man competition drives evolution
For cosmic man collaboration drives evolution

We're developing a noosphere. We're evolving away from tribal language, we're becoming increasingly telepathic. The internet is a technological manifestation of universal consciousness, it's an early telepathic building set.

Victoribus Spolia wrote:I also have found it kinda disturbing how most of the conservatives I have met have been far more environmentally conscientious than the leftists I have met, and there seems to be data to support it:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/pl ... t-at-home/

But this is typical. Big surprise, but the New England and European leftists who seek to redistribute wealth to help the poor are nowhere near as charitable as the red state white Christians who are against state hand-outs.

Its easier for hipsters sit in their Seattle cafes bitching about environmental degradation demanding government action then to actually go out and start a self-sustaining farm off-grid, conservatives are more likely to do that in all reality because it involves work and self-reliance and capital labor (usually in the form of having children). Besides the fact that there is no egalitarianism on primitive farms, that delusion ends REAL FAST when its time to do the heavy lifting.

Same thing with charity, leftists believe in having revolutions against their neighbors and their oppressors, Christians are just called to be charitable. IT didn't matter that a good portion of the stranded in Houston were blacks in the inner city, the racist white christian rednecks went with their fishing boats to save them because that is the Heart of the Gospel. Where were all the occupy wall-street and antifa commies when the flood waters came?

Joel Salatin is arguably the godfather of the organic, grass-fed, sustainable farm revolution and he is a Christian, white, libertarian. This is not just a coincidence. His intellectual inspiration "Wendell Berry" was a leftist, but was unable to create a movement like Salatin did because Salatin as a Christian libertarian focused on the aspect of "doing it" not "making others do it."

The former generates action, the latter generates complacent outrage. That is how its always been.
After studying forum image Victoribus Spolia's personality, it's clear that the man behind this persona is under the spell of written words. Meaning to say, his syntax takes second-hand knowledge and encyclopedia entries and reduces reality to a fixed perspective using compressed and static visual symbols. Hence why he calls himself a jumble of labels in this thread- viewtopic.php?f=22&t=171289 He uses written words as thought programs or precepts to form arguments. Obviously words are communication tools and should be used to describe not prescribe. VS, being under the spell of words, is a literalist of the intellection. He doesn't appear to be aware of the direct experience that is always operating under his intellect, and thus he worships indirect experience/human text as the sole arbiter of Truth. Human text should acknowledge its limitations, because it's merely an interpretation of reality.

Beren wrote:Which is basically true, he just didn't make his observations complete and say Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a biophysical machine too.
The biological material or flesh-shell vessel operates like a machine, but consciousness doesn't operate like a machine. Consciousness is an immaterial "energy." When I hear someone reduce man to animal, it's usually because they want to treat man like an animal.

"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

Beren wrote:If there were only 2.5 billion people on earth we all could live like Germany, France, Switzerland, the UK, or Japan sustainably.

"There is no energy crisis, only a crisis of ignorance."



Now... I will remind you that you are the universe and the universe is you:

"Under, and back of, the Universe of Time, Space and Change,
is ever to be found The Substantial Reality--the Fundamental
Truth."--The Kybalion.

"Substance" means: "that which underlies all outward manifestations; the essence; the essential reality; the thing in itself," etc. "Substantial" means: "actually existing; being the essential element; being real," etc. "Reality" means: "the state of being real; true, enduring; valid; fixed; permanent; actual," etc.

Under and behind all outward appearances or manifestations, there must always be a Substantial Reality. This is the Law. Man considering the Universe, of which he is a unit, sees nothing but change in matter, forces, and mental states. He sees that nothing really IS, but that everything is BECOMING and CHANGING. Nothing stands still-everything is being born, growing, dying-the very instant a thing reaches its height, it begins to decline--the law of rhythm is in constant operation--there is no reality, enduring quality, fixity, or substantiality in anything-- nothing is permanent but Change. He sees all things evolving from other things, and resolving into other things--constant action and reaction; inflow and outflow; building up and tearing down; creation and destruction; birth, growth and death. Nothing endures but Change. And if he be a thinking man, he realizes that all of these changing things must be but outward appearances or manifestations of some Underlying Power--some Substantial Reality.

All thinkers, in all lands and in all times, have assumed the necessity for postulating the existence of this Substantial Reality. All philosophies worthy of the name have been based upon this thought. Men have given to this Substantial Reality many names-some have called it by the term of Deity (under many titles). Others have called it "The Infinite and Eternal Energy" others have tried to call it "Matter"--but all have acknowledged its existence. It is self-evident it needs no argument.

In these lessons we have followed the example of some of the world's greatest thinkers, both ancient and modern--the Hermetic. Masters--and have called this Underlying Power--this Substantial Reality--by the Hermetic name of "THE ALL," which term we consider the most comprehensive of the many terms applied by Man to THAT which transcends names and terms.

We accept and teach the view of the great Hermetic thinkers of all times, as well as of those illumined souls who have reached higher planes of being, both of whom assert that the inner nature of THE ALL is UNKNOWABLE. This must be so, for naught by THE ALL itself can comprehend its own nature and being.

The Hermetists believe and teach that THE ALL, "in itself," is and must ever be UNKNOWABLE. They regard all the theories, guesses and speculations of the theologians and metaphysicians regarding the inner nature of THE ALL, as but the childish efforts of mortal minds to grasp the secret of the Infinite. Such efforts have always failed and will always fail, from the very nature of the task. One pursuing such inquiries travels around and around in the labyrinth of thought, until he is lost to all sane reasoning, action or conduct, and is utterly unfitted for the work of life. He is like the squirrel which frantically runs around and around the circling treadmill wheel of his cage, traveling ever and yet reaching nowhere--at the end a prisoner still, and standing just where he started.

And still more presumptuous are those who attempt to ascribe to THE ALL the personality, qualities, properties, characteristics and attributes of themselves, ascribing to THE ALL the human emotions, feelings, and characteristics, even down to the pettiest qualities of mankind, such as jealousy, susceptibility to flattery and praise, desire for offerings and worship, and all the other survivals from the days of the childhood of the race. Such ideas are not worthy of grown men and women, and are rapidly being discarded.

(At this point, it may be proper for me to state that we make a distinction between Religion and Theology--between Philosophy and Metaphysics. Religion, to us, means that intuitional realization of the existence of THE ALL, and one's relationship to it; while Theology means the attempts of men to ascribe personality, qualities, and characteristics to it; their theories regarding its affairs, will, desires, plans, and designs, and their assumption of the office of '' middle-men'' between THE ALL and the people. Philosophy, to us, means the inquiry after knowledge of things knowable and thinkable; while Metaphysics means the attempt to carry the inquiry over and beyond the boundaries and into regions unknowable and unthinkable, and with the same tendency as that of Theology. And consequently, both Religion and Philosophy mean to us things having roots in Reality, while Theology and Metaphysics seem like broken reeds, rooted in the quicksands of ignorance, and affording naught but the most insecure support for the mind or soul of Man. we do not insist upon our students accepting these definitions--we mention them merely to show our position. At any rate, you shall hear very little about Theology and Metaphysics in these lessons.)

But while the essential nature of THE ALL is Unknowable, there are certain truths connected with its existence which the human mind finds itself compelled to accept. And an examination of these reports form a proper subject of inquiry, particularly as they agree with the reports of the Illumined on higher planes. And to this inquiry we now invite you.

"THAT which is the Fundamental Truth--the Substantial
Reality--is beyond true naming, but the Wise Men call
it THE ALL."--The Kybalion.

"In its Essence, THE ALL is UNKNOWABLE."--The Kybalion.

"But, the report of Reason must be hospitably received,
and treated with respect."--The Kybalion.

The human reason, whose reports we must accept so long as we think at all, informs us as follows regarding THE ALL, and that without attempting to remove the veil of the Unknowable:

(1) THE ALL must be ALL that REALLY IS. There can be
nothing existing outside of THE ALL, else THE ALL would
not be THE ALL.

(2) THE ALL must be INFINITE, for there is nothing else
to define, confine, bound, limit; or restrict THE ALL.
It must be Infinite in Time, or ETERNAL,--it must have
always continuously existed, for there is nothing else to
have ever created it, and something can never evolve from
nothing, and if it had ever "not been," even for a moment,
it would not "be" now,--it must continuously exist forever,
for there is nothing to destroy it, and it can never
"not-be," even for a moment, because something can never
become nothing. It must be Infinite in Space--it must be
Everywhere, for there is no place outside of THE ALL--it
cannot be otherwise than continuous in Space, without break,
cessation, separation, or interruption, for there is nothing
to break, separate, or interrupt its continuity, and nothing
with which to "fill in the gaps." It must be Infinite in
Power, or Absolute, for there is nothing to limit, restrict,
restrain, confine, disturb or condition it--it is subject to
no other Power, for there is no other Power.

(3) THE ALL must be IMMUTABLE, or not subject to change in
its real nature, for there is nothing to work changes upon it
nothing into which it could change, nor from which it could
have changed. It cannot be added to nor subtracted from;
increased nor diminished; nor become greater or lesser in any
respect whatsoever. It must have always been, and must always
remain, just what it is now--THE ALL--there has never been,
is not now, and never will be, anything else into which it
can change.

THE ALL being Infinite, Absolute, Eternal and Unchangeable it must follow that anything finite, changeable, fleeting, and conditioned cannot be THE ALL. And as there is Nothing outside of THE ALL, in Reality, then any and all such finite things must be as Nothing in Reality. Now do not become befogged, nor frightened--we are not trying to lead you into the Christian Science field under cover of Hermetic Philosophy. There is a Reconciliation of this apparently contradictory state of affairs. Be patient, we will reach it in time.

We see around us that which is called "Matter," which forms the physical foundation for all forms. Is THE ALL merely Matter? Not at all! Matter cannot manifest Life or Mind, and as Life and Mind are manifested in the Universe, THE ALL cannot be Matter, for nothing rises higher than its own source--nothing is ever manifested in an effect that is not in the cause--nothing is evolved as a consequent that is not involved as an antecedent. And then Modern Science informs us that there is really no such thing as Matter--that what we call Matter is merely "interrupted energy or force," that is, energy or force at a low rate of vibration. As a recent writer has said "Matter has melted into Mystery." Even Material Science has abandoned the theory of Matter, and now rests on the basis of "Energy."

Then is THE ALL mere Energy or Force? Not Energy or Force as the materialists use the terms, for their energy and force are blind, mechanical things, devoid of Life or Mind. Life and Mind can never evolve from blind Energy or Force, for the reason given a moment ago: "Nothing can rise higher than its source--nothing is evolved unless it is involved--nothing manifests in the effect, unless it is in the cause. " And so THE ALL cannot be mere Energy or Force, for, if it were, then there would be no such things as Life and Mind in existence, and we know better than that, for we are Alive and using Mind to consider this very question, and so are those who claim that Energy or Force is Everything.

What is there then higher than Matter or Energy that we know to be existent in the Universe? LIFE AND MIND! Life and Mind in all their varying degrees of unfoldment! "Then," you ask, "do you mean to tell us that THE ALL is LIFE and MIND?" Yes! and No! is our answer. If you mean Life and Mind as we poor petty mortals know them, we say No! THE ALL is not that! "But what kind of Life and Mind do you mean?" you ask.

The answer is "LIVING MIND," as far above that which mortals know by those words, as Life and Mind are higher than mechanical forces, or matter--INFINITE LIVING MIND as compared to finite "Life and Mind." We mean that which the illumined souls mean when they reverently pronounce the word: "SPIRIT!"

"THE ALL" is Infinite Living Mind--the Illumined call it SPIRIT!


http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb06.htm


We're co-generating our future right NOW!

-ONE Love
#14939529
RhetoricThug, thanks for re-stating a lot of the points made in the OP. I love how you've taken many of the simple points the OP made, and made them much more incomprehensible to normal people who don't have time to play mental gymnastics with unnecessarily complex sentence structures.

You have demonstrated a way of branding oneself as "super-smart." And this is an important feature of humiliating the human race and making it believe itself to have no more value than dogs do.

The dog is what the human being is supposed to become once he has ingested the notion of Superman (and partying with Him forever) as his primary motivation. Dogs are a perfect model because they worship their human, food-giving masters as if they were Supermen.

Do dogs tell one another that if they're good house pets, they will live beside the perfect master for the rest of their lives, forever chasing sticks, smelling asses, and eating high-end doggy-treats every single day?

Image

Doggie doesn't understand RhetoricThug. Doggie just wants to chase sticks.
#14939559
Thanks Qatz :roll: ... :p

QatzelOk wrote:The dog is what the human being is supposed to become once he has ingested the notion of Superman (and partying with Him forever) as his primary motivation.


"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing." - Oscar Wilde

Doggie doesn't understand RhetoricThug. Doggie just wants to chase sticks.


CHAPTER VIII PLANES OF CORRESPONDENCE

Excerpt
The Plane of Human Mind, in its seven sub-divisions, comprises those manifestations of life and mentality which are common to Man, in his various grades, degrees, and divisions. In this connection, we wish to point out the fact that the average man of today occupies but the fourth sub-division of the Plane of Human Mind, and only the most intelligent have crossed the borders of the Fifth Sub-Division. It has taken the race millions of years to reach this stage, and it will take many more years for the race to move on to the sixth and seventh sub-divisions, and beyond. But, remember, that there have been races before us which have passed through these degrees, and then on to higher planes. Our own race is the fifth (with stragglers from the fourth) which has set foot upon The Path. And, then there are a few advanced souls of our own race who have outstripped the masses, and who have passed on to the sixth and seventh sub-division, and some few being still further on. The man of the Sixth Sub-Division will be "The Super-Man"; he of the Seventh will be "The Over-Man."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb10.htm

We're co-generating our future,

-Superman

There have been several Black people dead in this […]

Freedom and World Cultures

Here's the African cluster (though it includes mu[…]

I had no idea 2014 was during election season? :?[…]

Donald in the Bunker

What Trump has and Nixon did not have, is the unw[…]