You did not address the issue humankind must face. You're critiquing expressions of human thought, instead of criticizing the process behind human thought. The issue isn't a word or geometric structure
(organized pattern of reality), such things are merely signs & symptoms which may be indicative of an underlying perception of reality or the way we're structuring our judgements in response to overlying material forms/forces. It's quite clear that any negative quality Qatz
(which, by the way, is a reflection of Qatz inner psychology/personality. Unless, of course, he's a troll and not a sincere forum image) can attribute to an interpretation or pattern of perception humans use as a behavioral operating system
(ie: organized religion, organized politics, etc) in order to explain quandaries, is his way of conveniently packaging an interpersonal grievance and placing blame on an abstract egregore so he doesn't have to investigate our current understanding of the human family. Nonetheless, blame is escapism. And any grievance or structural problem found within human relations can be found across various human societies as a potential anthropological universal
(note the word potential, meaning to say that such qualities can be propagated and cultivated by any human society), and therefore it's logically fallacious to deduce all forms of visibly expressed problems to one concept or idea.
After-all, one concept or idea is a synergistic thought form founded upon an interrelated human experience, ideas do not exist independently, ideas come out of other ideas. All ideas exist inside the realm of human thought, and a human mind is a linear operator completely enveloped in a polycentric cloud of sensation. Enfolded in its unfolding, thought or ABC-XYZ moves within this happening called consciousness, but we're limited by existential disposition, and the whole of consciousness without is an infinite movement passing through/within us, and thought gives us the illusion that we're responsible for IT. In reality, an idea is a fragment of our collective awareness. But Individuals like to think thus believe in self-actualized fragments of reality and are driven by their cyclopean or tunnel vision, and this is fundamentally the issue humankind must face.
We must recognize that our thoughts and behaviors interconnect inside a network called the human experience and the network called the human experience is a pulsating interval of phenomena operating inside a larger celestial network. We're infinite consciousness having a finite human experience, but we've fallen in love with our individual images or myths. Unfortunately, instead of following the process from which such problems arise, Qatz has constructed a quasi-sincere critique in which he places
the cart before the horse. The cart, in this particular case, is the external expression of human thought or actions of the past. The horse, in this particular case, is the internal thought pattern responsible for our actions. A behavior complex is in a state of active biochemical interplay with the mind/matter interface. Action informs thought and thought informs action, and the human mind is capable of discernment. As ONE collective conscious, humankind is in a self-fulfilling struggle with itself.
QatzelOk wrote:A local man just got off of doing jail time. He was originally tried for leaving his young baby in a hot car, in which the baby actually died of heat stroke. It's illegal in Quebec to leave a baby in a car alone, like it is in many other areas of the world.
If you are Abrahamic, you can console yourself by imagining that the baby went directly to heaven where he is now seated at the right hand of the creator of the universe, and is living in a perfect paradise forever.
Abrahamics (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) can all make sense of modern life by imagining partying forever with Superman after death.
If pollution, war, and environmental decay kill off our species, Abrahamics can dream of everyone nice (of their faith) partying forever with Superman.
The First Nations of North America believed (in their spiritual tradition) that it was imperative to preserve and protect nature. Perhaps protect it FROM Superman?
For their lack of respect for second-hand European mythology, these nature-preserving groups were genocided, and the local Abrahamics were pretty sure that these disrespectful types were NOT going to party forever with Superman after death, like they themselves were.
Europeans (and the other mercenaries that were brought in by Euros) found the whole "protect nature" thing very useless and superstitious. These mercenaries were educated and sophisticated enough to know that Superman had spoken to shepherds a few thousand years before, and had explained how to get into "party forever with Superman" mode.
Euros (and other mercenaries) were like: "Screw birds, bees, rivers and forests, we're going to party forever with Superman!"
This philosophy of mind can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=173128 Where Qatz uses the exact same formula to criticize other expressions of human thought. Only this time, instead of debt as an absolute human construct, Qatz mocks the notion of the Absolute. This is entertainment, not philosophy. His critique lacks careful consideration for the nuance of human behavior and is full of black & white generalizations.
Verv wrote:I think that the reason why the native Americans would have eventually resembled Europeans closely in their relationship to nature is because the Maya, the Aztecs, and such, also began wrecking the environment, right.
It's pretty human to eventually want to improve your economy and make a profit, and to disregard others toward that end, and something tells me that people who were willing to cut open strangers hearts and feed them to Huitzilopochtli weren't exactly going to balk at open pit mining.
I also feel like we think of nature overly romantically while we have the air conditioner blowing down on us. Oh, yes, I do agree with you that nature is beautiful and that there is something very honest about it, and that it should be preserved indefinitely, etc., but we are being too romantic and just painting with broad strokes to demonize our beautiful Christian faith.
... Moreover, I think that a lot of people approach theology with a very amateur and unrefined perspective.
That's OK. I understand. I get it. A lot of us have not been paying attention to theology. But some of us have been. It's actually really bad to just throw stuff up there from your 12 year old understanding of Christian theology and pretend that that is the long & short of it.
It's a human problem, NOT a European, Mayan, Aztec, Native American, theological... ... ... problem. Furthermore, we need to stop pretending nature is something separate from ourselves
(your body is a barrier and a bridge). Words can have a negative impact on the human psyche, because words as environmental descriptions compartmentalize environmental phenomena. This is a systemic problem because we use words to organize society. If our words compartmentalize or fragment aspects of nature, human society will compartmentalize or fragment aspects of nature. Hence why human society isn't living in harmony with Earth. Human thought, as a human problem is constantly dividing phenomena for a communication process that's intrinsically constrained by the limits of human language.
A communication processFor tribal man competition drives evolution
For cosmic man collaboration drives evolution
We're developing a noosphere. We're evolving away from tribal language, we're becoming increasingly telepathic. The internet is a technological manifestation of universal consciousness, it's an early telepathic building set.
Victoribus Spolia wrote:I also have found it kinda disturbing how most of the conservatives I have met have been far more environmentally conscientious than the leftists I have met, and there seems to be data to support it:
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/pl ... t-at-home/
But this is typical. Big surprise, but the New England and European leftists who seek to redistribute wealth to help the poor are nowhere near as charitable as the red state white Christians who are against state hand-outs.
Its easier for hipsters sit in their Seattle cafes bitching about environmental degradation demanding government action then to actually go out and start a self-sustaining farm off-grid, conservatives are more likely to do that in all reality because it involves work and self-reliance and capital labor (usually in the form of having children). Besides the fact that there is no egalitarianism on primitive farms, that delusion ends REAL FAST when its time to do the heavy lifting.
Same thing with charity, leftists believe in having revolutions against their neighbors and their oppressors, Christians are just called to be charitable. IT didn't matter that a good portion of the stranded in Houston were blacks in the inner city, the racist white christian rednecks went with their fishing boats to save them because that is the Heart of the Gospel. Where were all the occupy wall-street and antifa commies when the flood waters came?
Joel Salatin is arguably the godfather of the organic, grass-fed, sustainable farm revolution and he is a Christian, white, libertarian. This is not just a coincidence. His intellectual inspiration "Wendell Berry" was a leftist, but was unable to create a movement like Salatin did because Salatin as a Christian libertarian focused on the aspect of "doing it" not "making others do it."
The former generates action, the latter generates complacent outrage. That is how its always been.
After studying forum image Victoribus Spolia's personality, it's clear that the man behind this persona is under the spell of written words. Meaning to say, his syntax takes second-hand knowledge and encyclopedia entries and reduces reality to a fixed perspective using compressed and static visual symbols. Hence why he calls himself a jumble of labels in this thread-
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=171289 He uses written words as thought programs or precepts to form arguments. Obviously words are communication tools and should be used to describe not prescribe. VS, being under the spell of words, is a literalist of the intellection. He doesn't appear to be aware of the direct experience that is always operating under his intellect, and thus he worships indirect experience/human text as the sole arbiter of Truth. Human text should acknowledge its limitations, because it's merely an interpretation of reality.
Beren wrote:Which is basically true, he just didn't make his observations complete and say Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a biophysical machine too.
The biological material or flesh-shell vessel operates like a machine, but consciousness doesn't operate like a machine. Consciousness is an immaterial "energy." When I hear someone reduce man to animal, it's usually because they want to treat man like an animal.
"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."Beren wrote:If there were only 2.5 billion people on earth we all could live like Germany, France, Switzerland, the UK, or Japan sustainably.
"There is no energy crisis, only a crisis of ignorance."Now... I will remind you that you are the universe and the universe is you:
"Under, and back of, the Universe of Time, Space and Change,
is ever to be found The Substantial Reality--the Fundamental
Truth."--The Kybalion.
"Substance" means: "that which underlies all outward manifestations; the essence; the essential reality; the thing in itself," etc. "Substantial" means: "actually existing; being the essential element; being real," etc. "Reality" means: "the state of being real; true, enduring; valid; fixed; permanent; actual," etc.
Under and behind all outward appearances or manifestations, there must always be a Substantial Reality. This is the Law. Man considering the Universe, of which he is a unit, sees nothing but change in matter, forces, and mental states. He sees that nothing really IS, but that everything is BECOMING and CHANGING. Nothing stands still-everything is being born, growing, dying-the very instant a thing reaches its height, it begins to decline--the law of rhythm is in constant operation--there is no reality, enduring quality, fixity, or substantiality in anything-- nothing is permanent but Change. He sees all things evolving from other things, and resolving into other things--constant action and reaction; inflow and outflow; building up and tearing down; creation and destruction; birth, growth and death. Nothing endures but Change. And if he be a thinking man, he realizes that all of these changing things must be but outward appearances or manifestations of some Underlying Power--some Substantial Reality.
All thinkers, in all lands and in all times, have assumed the necessity for postulating the existence of this Substantial Reality. All philosophies worthy of the name have been based upon this thought. Men have given to this Substantial Reality many names-some have called it by the term of Deity (under many titles). Others have called it "The Infinite and Eternal Energy" others have tried to call it "Matter"--but all have acknowledged its existence. It is self-evident it needs no argument.
In these lessons we have followed the example of some of the world's greatest thinkers, both ancient and modern--the Hermetic. Masters--and have called this Underlying Power--this Substantial Reality--by the Hermetic name of "THE ALL," which term we consider the most comprehensive of the many terms applied by Man to THAT which transcends names and terms.
We accept and teach the view of the great Hermetic thinkers of all times, as well as of those illumined souls who have reached higher planes of being, both of whom assert that the inner nature of THE ALL is UNKNOWABLE. This must be so, for naught by THE ALL itself can comprehend its own nature and being.
The Hermetists believe and teach that THE ALL, "in itself," is and must ever be UNKNOWABLE. They regard all the theories, guesses and speculations of the theologians and metaphysicians regarding the inner nature of THE ALL, as but the childish efforts of mortal minds to grasp the secret of the Infinite. Such efforts have always failed and will always fail, from the very nature of the task. One pursuing such inquiries travels around and around in the labyrinth of thought, until he is lost to all sane reasoning, action or conduct, and is utterly unfitted for the work of life. He is like the squirrel which frantically runs around and around the circling treadmill wheel of his cage, traveling ever and yet reaching nowhere--at the end a prisoner still, and standing just where he started.
And still more presumptuous are those who attempt to ascribe to THE ALL the personality, qualities, properties, characteristics and attributes of themselves, ascribing to THE ALL the human emotions, feelings, and characteristics, even down to the pettiest qualities of mankind, such as jealousy, susceptibility to flattery and praise, desire for offerings and worship, and all the other survivals from the days of the childhood of the race. Such ideas are not worthy of grown men and women, and are rapidly being discarded.
(At this point, it may be proper for me to state that we make a distinction between Religion and Theology--between Philosophy and Metaphysics. Religion, to us, means that intuitional realization of the existence of THE ALL, and one's relationship to it; while Theology means the attempts of men to ascribe personality, qualities, and characteristics to it; their theories regarding its affairs, will, desires, plans, and designs, and their assumption of the office of '' middle-men'' between THE ALL and the people. Philosophy, to us, means the inquiry after knowledge of things knowable and thinkable; while Metaphysics means the attempt to carry the inquiry over and beyond the boundaries and into regions unknowable and unthinkable, and with the same tendency as that of Theology. And consequently, both Religion and Philosophy mean to us things having roots in Reality, while Theology and Metaphysics seem like broken reeds, rooted in the quicksands of ignorance, and affording naught but the most insecure support for the mind or soul of Man. we do not insist upon our students accepting these definitions--we mention them merely to show our position. At any rate, you shall hear very little about Theology and Metaphysics in these lessons.)
But while the essential nature of THE ALL is Unknowable, there are certain truths connected with its existence which the human mind finds itself compelled to accept. And an examination of these reports form a proper subject of inquiry, particularly as they agree with the reports of the Illumined on higher planes. And to this inquiry we now invite you.
"THAT which is the Fundamental Truth--the Substantial
Reality--is beyond true naming, but the Wise Men call
it THE ALL."--The Kybalion.
"In its Essence, THE ALL is UNKNOWABLE."--The Kybalion.
"But, the report of Reason must be hospitably received,
and treated with respect."--The Kybalion.
The human reason, whose reports we must accept so long as we think at all, informs us as follows regarding THE ALL, and that without attempting to remove the veil of the Unknowable:
(1) THE ALL must be ALL that REALLY IS. There can be
nothing existing outside of THE ALL, else THE ALL would
not be THE ALL.
(2) THE ALL must be INFINITE, for there is nothing else
to define, confine, bound, limit; or restrict THE ALL.
It must be Infinite in Time, or ETERNAL,--it must have
always continuously existed, for there is nothing else to
have ever created it, and something can never evolve from
nothing, and if it had ever "not been," even for a moment,
it would not "be" now,--it must continuously exist forever,
for there is nothing to destroy it, and it can never
"not-be," even for a moment, because something can never
become nothing. It must be Infinite in Space--it must be
Everywhere, for there is no place outside of THE ALL--it
cannot be otherwise than continuous in Space, without break,
cessation, separation, or interruption, for there is nothing
to break, separate, or interrupt its continuity, and nothing
with which to "fill in the gaps." It must be Infinite in
Power, or Absolute, for there is nothing to limit, restrict,
restrain, confine, disturb or condition it--it is subject to
no other Power, for there is no other Power.
(3) THE ALL must be IMMUTABLE, or not subject to change in
its real nature, for there is nothing to work changes upon it
nothing into which it could change, nor from which it could
have changed. It cannot be added to nor subtracted from;
increased nor diminished; nor become greater or lesser in any
respect whatsoever. It must have always been, and must always
remain, just what it is now--THE ALL--there has never been,
is not now, and never will be, anything else into which it
can change.
THE ALL being Infinite, Absolute, Eternal and Unchangeable it must follow that anything finite, changeable, fleeting, and conditioned cannot be THE ALL. And as there is Nothing outside of THE ALL, in Reality, then any and all such finite things must be as Nothing in Reality. Now do not become befogged, nor frightened--we are not trying to lead you into the Christian Science field under cover of Hermetic Philosophy. There is a Reconciliation of this apparently contradictory state of affairs. Be patient, we will reach it in time.
We see around us that which is called "Matter," which forms the physical foundation for all forms. Is THE ALL merely Matter? Not at all! Matter cannot manifest Life or Mind, and as Life and Mind are manifested in the Universe, THE ALL cannot be Matter, for nothing rises higher than its own source--nothing is ever manifested in an effect that is not in the cause--nothing is evolved as a consequent that is not involved as an antecedent. And then Modern Science informs us that there is really no such thing as Matter--that what we call Matter is merely "interrupted energy or force," that is, energy or force at a low rate of vibration. As a recent writer has said "Matter has melted into Mystery." Even Material Science has abandoned the theory of Matter, and now rests on the basis of "Energy."
Then is THE ALL mere Energy or Force? Not Energy or Force as the materialists use the terms, for their energy and force are blind, mechanical things, devoid of Life or Mind. Life and Mind can never evolve from blind Energy or Force, for the reason given a moment ago: "Nothing can rise higher than its source--nothing is evolved unless it is involved--nothing manifests in the effect, unless it is in the cause. " And so THE ALL cannot be mere Energy or Force, for, if it were, then there would be no such things as Life and Mind in existence, and we know better than that, for we are Alive and using Mind to consider this very question, and so are those who claim that Energy or Force is Everything.
What is there then higher than Matter or Energy that we know to be existent in the Universe? LIFE AND MIND! Life and Mind in all their varying degrees of unfoldment! "Then," you ask, "do you mean to tell us that THE ALL is LIFE and MIND?" Yes! and No! is our answer. If you mean Life and Mind as we poor petty mortals know them, we say No! THE ALL is not that! "But what kind of Life and Mind do you mean?" you ask.
The answer is "LIVING MIND," as far above that which mortals know by those words, as Life and Mind are higher than mechanical forces, or matter--INFINITE LIVING MIND as compared to finite "Life and Mind." We mean that which the illumined souls mean when they reverently pronounce the word: "SPIRIT!"
"THE ALL" is Infinite Living Mind--the Illumined call it SPIRIT!
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb06.htm
We're co-generating our future right NOW!
-ONE Love
... 
- By paeng
- By Pants-of-dog
- By Godstud