Party Forever with Superman - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

For the discussion of Philosophy. Discuss thought from Socrates to the Enlightenment and beyond!

Moderator: PoFo Agora Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. Religious topics may be debated in this forum, but those of religious belief who specifically wish to avoid threads being derailed by atheist arguments might prefer to use the Spirituality forum.
#14939635
Beren wrote:If there were only 2.5 billion people on earth we all could live like Germany, France, Switzerland, the UK, or Japan sustainably.

Or, in other words, if humans are to live like Germans, French and Swiss people do today, five billion humans must be killed. In contrast, to live like the non-Superman-worshipping Vietnamese people live today, only a few hundred million need to be killed. Or - with slight adjustments, no one needs to be genocided. Non-superman is genocide-free.

Superman worshippers don't seem to be allergic to genocide, as when Superman kills, the people he kills are always "bad guys" who are trying to rob banks, or to invade the Nuclear Institute. What could be more full of goodness than banks and nuclear power centers? Obviously, only a genocide-worthy monster would ever threaten one of these Super-institutions.

RhetoricThug wrote:We're co-generating our future,
-Superman

Thanks for the Kybalion link, Super-commenter. Now please try to share your super-ideas in a way that's third-dimension friendly in order to help scaffold all of humanity up to a level that permits the survival of our species and many others.
#14939666
QatzelOk wrote:Or, in other words, if humans are to live like Germans, French and Swiss people do today, five billion humans must be killed. In contrast, to live like the non-Superman-worshipping Vietnamese people live today, only a few hundred million need to be killed. Or - with slight adjustments, no one needs to be genocided.

I'd rather prefer if mankind kept its multiplication rates under death rates for a while and then kept its own population stagnant, however, humanity's overpopulation problem will rather be solved spontaneously, or naturally, it seems. Overcrowding the planet is an Abrahamic urge anyway, so why do you insist on it? I also wonder whether Vietnamese people wouldn't like to live like Germans, especially if they sustainably could.
#14939738
Beren wrote:...Overcrowding the planet is an Abrahamic urge anyway, so why do you insist on it? I also wonder whether Vietnamese people wouldn't like to live like Germans, especially if they sustainably could.

First of all, overcrowding isn't the main problem. Greed is.

Greed creates rich people who abort their babies so that they can consume more. And greed prompts these same greedbag Westerners to bomb poorer countries to steal resources, thus ensuring that these countries don't make it to first-world birth rates or education rates.

Also, it was greedbag industrial interests who spread Superman-belief all over the world, and the purpose of this belief was to enable global capitalism - trade. So the rich have no lessons to teach the world. If the rest of the world follows Europe's example, we will all go extinct for sure, and I'm not sure if there's room in Superman's pleasure dome for all 8 billion of us.

Meanwhile, the frequent terrorism that the rich visit upon the poor, guarantees that no better system can take the Superman-worshipper's place.
Last edited by QatzelOk on 14 Aug 2018 23:53, edited 1 time in total.
#14939741
QatzelOk wrote:First of all, overcrowding isn't the main problem. Greed is.

Overcrowding is a natural problem that occurs in nature from time to time as well. There were about 2.5 billion people on earth around 1950, then we started overcrowding exponentially and we became consumerists too, that's the root cause of our most recent problems. So I thought 2.5 billion on Western European standards of living would be a reasonable compromise according to your chart. But you're not really interested in reasonable compromises because you just hate modernity completely and would erase it completely if you could, however, all you can say now is that we all should be poorer than the average Vietnamese person.
#14939742
Beren wrote:Overcrowding is a natural problem that occurs in nature from time to time as well. .

There's nothing natural about today's overpopulation. It's the result of modern medicine, and its Super-mission to defeat natural death.
#14939745
QatzelOk wrote:There's nothing natural about today's overpopulation.

Our overpopulation is a civilisational problem, however, overpopulation as a phenomenon is natural and there are natural solutions to it. It's either that or we go according to a plan.
#14940866
@Victoribus Spolia, great posts here. I have not read them all and have been inactive because I was on vacation and doing a few urgent things.

I think you are totally right about the environmentalism thing & conservatives. I think that we do a bad job of embracing it, though, because a lot of conservatism has been hijacked by the free market types. But then again, I think that it is also true that a lot of the people on the American right prefer free markets out of the belief, erroneous or not, that free people tend to make the right decisions. I think that is a true description of Christian people who take their Christian heritage seriously and are not facing dire consequences, but that it otherwise falls short, and the second that the market actually becomes the centerpiece of our ideology and not Christ and the American way of life, this all comes apart very quickly.

Conservatives are not without guilt on this. That is for sure.

Fr. Chad Ripperger often says that the vice of America that undercuts us all is the vice of avarice. It seems truer and truer as the years pass.

QatzelOk wrote:Well Verv and Vic, neither of you has defended the worship of Superman, nor have either of you demonstrated that heaven (partying forever with Superman) is an example of sophisticated philosophy.


You are taking one part of the theology and pretending that this is the whole of the philosophy. But it isn't.

You could say that the philosophy is cosmic justice, and that those who are innocent, or, at least, who are repentant and with a truly contrite heart (which constitutes some degree of innocence) are the ones that receive positive outcomes, while those who are unrepentant or willfully choose to disavow religion and virtue are the ones that will be held accountable in a very negative way.

And this is fundamentally theological...

Which means that it involves revelations and interpretations of those revelations, right, and the underpinning philosophies.

Some people say that this makes theology less persuasive than philosophy because it is dependent on some level of revelations, but it ignores the fact that a lot of philosophy is completely dependent on other givens, and that the less dependent a philosophy is on these given points, the more unhitched it is from being practical and influential in our society.

The OP suggests that the Earth is doomed because it is dominated by people who believe that they will one day party with Superman.


That's honestly interesting. But why would that be.

It would be more persuasive to say that the earth would be doomed if it were governed by people who believed that there is no superman because there is no actual obligation to some cosmic sense of justice, I think.

Of course, if there was some absolutely ridiculous theology that was very far out of touch with reality and sustainable systems, something like a Native American system based on Aztec gods, it might be that way... But that doesn't actually describe accurately what Christian theology believes.

... Of course, it would describe that if your understanding of theology is still back at age 12 and rebelling against the old Catholic lady that ran your Sunday school. But if you stuck with it and actually got some depth out ofit you would hesitate before making some grandiose OP based off of bad takes on Christianity.

Your unqualified projection of "what First Nations would have developed into" is probably the kind of irrational thought that Superman worship leads to. And by the way, the Aztec, Mayans and Incas were all Superman worshippers. And they were also in rapid decline when Europeans found and then destroyed their civilizations. So your "point" is weak on many fronts if you want to defend "heaven" (partying forever with Superman) as a civilizational and personal objective, and claim that it's not suicidal when practiced by large groups.


They were "superman" worshipers...

Right.

Because every theology and every religion is equal, eh, Qatz?

I think this is actually one fo the ways that egalitarianism destroys thinking brains of Western people. They actually do not think it is very appropriate to insist that Christianity is superior to other religious systems because it makes them feel bad that a French person has a better religion than an Indian, Arab, or Chinese person who follows a different tradition.

But none of these traditions are the same and none of them can be evaluated as just being equal.

It literally makes just as much sense for you to go "Marxism, Fascism, classical liberalism; democratic socialism; Islamic theocracy... Monarchy! These are all just the same. I am a Political Universalist and I see the beauty in all political systems, and I try to learn from them all; none is better than the other.[/I]"
#14940936
Verv wrote:They were "superman" worshipers...

Right.

Because every theology and every religion is equal, eh, Qatz?

I think this is actually one fo the ways that egalitarianism destroys thinking brains of Western people. They actually do not think it is very appropriate to insist that Christianity is superior to other religious systems because it makes them feel bad that a French person has a better religion than an Indian, Arab, or Chinese person who follows a different tradition.

But none of these traditions are the same and none of them can be evaluated as just being equal.

It literally makes just as much sense for you to go "Marxism, Fascism, classical liberalism; democratic socialism; Islamic theocracy... Monarchy! These are all just the same. I am a Political Universalist and I see the beauty in all political systems, and I try to learn from them all; none is better than the other.[/I]"
All ideas are elements of the human mind. For instance, If you look at the periodic table and decide to worship a particular element, you'd be committing a self-deception in your mind. We're infinite consciousness having a finite experience. You're hung up on finite projections/expressions of human awareness. Collectively, we're grounded in a physical system of reality, a system that's objective, a system that's a universal Law. The human family must find this common-ground and develop a common sense so we can collectively adapt to this environment together and recondition the human condition. The masses allow social engineers to balkanize our perception of reality, because they're formally trained to trust self-deception. The institutionalized war on consciousness must end. Self-realization is the antidote. It's a simple and complex process, depending on the person... However, I can only lead you to a reflection in the water. :hmm:

I think alcohol destroys the frontal lobe of thinking people. But let's focus on the occipital lobe and the treachery of images.



This is colorful cultural commentary, byproduct of the Shakespearean proscenium arch (All the world's a stage), a superficial feature (symptom) of the entire communication structure. When man-made satellites orbit earth, we technologically turn the planet into a work of art. It started (we approximate, hang on, let me check the Akashic records)... at the Pettakere cave in Sulawesi, we turned a pig into a human myth.
-RT

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” - Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Everything is dual; everything has poles; everything
has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same;
opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree;
extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes
may be reconciled."
--The Kybalion.
#14942879
Verv wrote:You are taking one part of the theology and pretending that this is the whole of the philosophy. But it isn't.

No, partying with Superman is mearly the infininte reward that Abrahamics aspire to when they warp their natural behavior to match that which is prescribed in the "book."

You could say that the philosophy is cosmic justice, and that those who are innocent, or, at least, who are repentant and with a truly contrite heart (which constitutes some degree of innocence) are the ones that receive positive outcomes,

Yes, and the "positive outcome" that the behavior-warping Abrahamic can look forward to is... partying forever with Superman. The elite is telling the poor and dumb: "If you slave away for other people all your life, let the rich hoard all the resources and let the cunning rip you off all the time, you will get the best outcome."

Sounds like a scam.
#14943050
I think you don't understand it.

Christianity mostly took off among Greeks & Jews who were relatively well off. We know some of the occupations of the Apostles, and they were mostly artisans (like Christ's family) and even included a Roman tax farmer -- Matthew. This would have made them all the equivalent of modern day upper middle class at a minimum -- it was said that something like 85% of medieval people were peasants or even "lower," 2% were nobles, and the remaining 10%+ were artisans, professional soldiers, etc. and the likes that would make up the middle class.

Many early Chrsitians were nobles and artisans in urban centers; they were infinitely better off than most of the rural people... and the initial message was to sacrifice huge swathes of their wealth for the Church, and to unite themselves with people of far lower classes and circumstances. Christ was a radical departure from common Hebrew attitudes as he proposed that historic enemies such as the Samaritans and now the Romans were among the most faithful people in all of the land!

You are literally just taking the superficial, angry bad take on Christianity and hoping that the accusation sticks to it, ignoring the actual theological content and message...

... IDK, what do you even think the proposed path to salvation for Christians is? Do you honestly think the whole point of it is "work hard for rich people and go to Heaven?"

It's hard to interact with you, Quatz, because I am trying to talk about the topic as a whole and you are trying to force these silly bad takes.
#14944947
Verv wrote:You are literally just taking the superficial, angry bad take on Christianity and hoping that the accusation sticks to it, ignoring the actual theological content and message...

Your last post didn't adress the theological content or the message. You just talked about what fabulous people the early Christians were (rich Greeks and hard-working disciples). Not relevant at all to this thread. Just more hero-worship of comic book inventions.

... IDK, what do you even think the proposed path to salvation for Christians is? Do you honestly think the whole point of it is "work hard for rich people and go to Heaven?"

Abrahamic religions create different economic castes in order for capitalism (or seigneurialism) to thrive. Thous shalt not kill the hoarders. Thou shalt not steal from the usurers. Thou shalt remain sexually unfilfilled... All are ways of defending inequality - an artifical construct that required some kind of brainwashing to succeed.
(think re-education)

It's hard to interact with you, Quatz, because I am trying to talk about the topic as a whole and you are trying to force these silly bad takes.

It's hard to look lucidly at our civilization's mythology... especially as it nears its rapid decline into obscurity taking its fake religions with it. But it will happen.

I think you don't understand it.

I was raised in a very religious environment, and then explored many other religions. I understand it a bit too well, and refuse to let it trick me. I stay away from both commercial media and religious propaganda because they're both built on "strength through shared lies." This might create very strong cliques of irrational fighters who steal everyone else's stuff, but it's suicidal long-term because it's a wild goose chase that takes (took?) us away from any kind of survival-related group behavior.

Living for the end-of-life eternal party with Superman has guarenteed that very few generations will enjoy what the earth might have offered them.
#14945544
Qatz, that doesn't make sense to say that Christianity exists to reinforce some class system. It also doesn't make sense to decontextualize its ethics and say that it exists to encourage repression.

The indulgence in sex back then was even far worst of a plan than now as there weren't treatments for these diseases and, moreover, there was not as effective of brith control; societies and villages were smaller.... But perhaps more importantly, it's simply never a good idea to feed your vices and explode them to new levels. You aren't repressed if you are merely exercising good judgment and discipline.

I wonder if Qatz lectures Buddhists with a similar approach: "Hey you Monastics, what's the deal with wanting to free yourself from desire?! You're just reinforcing misery..."

Meanwhile, in Africa, the AIDS epidemic continues...

Christianity actually hammered through a lot of the stereotypes that people had at those times. It actively encouraged people to become friendly with Samaritans and the likes, and it talked about Gentiles as needing to be brought into the folds. It was centered around breaking down national and ethnic barriers! This is the sort of stuff that you love, and I have no doubt that you would have been interested in it if you were a Greek at that time.

Moreover, we even have Paul telling people that the class barriers are superficial and that they need to eat together and not be divided based on class. He has one line where he encourages peopel to sesrve their masters well! But this is literally just paying lip service to the fact that, back then, the bulk of people were servants, and this was how all labor was organized.

Wouldn't even good old Karl Marx say that these societies had stages to pass through before they could even attempt to surmount these obstacles?
#14946642
Verv wrote:The indulgence in sex back then was even far worst of a plan than now as there weren't treatments for these diseases and, moreover, there was not as effective of brith control; societies and villages were smaller.... But perhaps more importantly, it's simply never a good idea to feed your vices and explode them to new levels. You aren't repressed if you are merely exercising good judgment and discipline.

The repression of natural sexuality is incredible in civilizations - it's probably the most important way to create herd animal behavior.

Meanwhile, all other things are indulged in to the point of obesity and extinction.

Even if cavemen were all getting sexual diseases, their population was stable, and they were able to act on their natural instincts.

Repressing natural instincts with repressive measures while spreading obviously false stories like "the heaven myth" or the "reincarnation myth" will be the end of man the animal.

We will have to learn to live on parchment paper and rosaries because we're currently killing all of our food, air, and water supplies.

Superman worship is kryptonite for human survial, and ultimately, for human fulfillment. Most religions are just ways of destroying natural philosophy and discussion (time wasting) in order to increase the production of widgets. We're drowning in widgets and miserably unfulfilled as a "culture."

No Superman is going to help us. He's too busy defending banks and nuclear institutes from "for'ners."
#14946743
We are accused of repressing our sexual urges, butI have to be frank: I have a very fulfilling monogamous sexual life and it is refelctive of positive family building practices. So, uhhhh, how am I repressed?

Are you literally suggesting some general sexual free for all within the tribe is the way to go -- some bizarre mix of stone age sexual communism & 20th century Beatnik bath house bumpy boys bangin' about? I can understand the appeal of anarchy -- Ess-peshially if you think there is nothing at the end of the rainbow, just a corpse. But, really now, even if there is no God, is sex forever with degenerated humans really the best option that we have?

Maybe you have helped illustrate why the LGBTQ & rock star community have such high suicide rates:

Decadence is its own punishment, and when the body is a bit older, flabbier, and more impotent, and you are no longer sexually competitive and you've been all eaten up around the edges... Maybe it's tiem to cash out while you're ahead, so to speak. Not to mention, whatever familial unit you may have forged while partyin' finitely with fuccboyz is probably terribly resentful and atomized.

Thus, the old decadent wastrel arrives at the Golden Gate bridge and cash me ou'sside!

Splash!

Religious people live longer because there is inhernetly meaning in their life. Rock stars burn out because they are atomized & sodomized delicatley at first, harshly later, by the big D of consumerism.
#14946886
Verv wrote:Are you literally suggesting some general sexual free for all within the tribe is the way to go -- some bizarre mix of stone age sexual communism & 20th century Beatnik bath house bumpy boys bangin'

Decadence is its own punishment, and when the body is a bit older, flabbier, and more impotent, and you are no longer sexually competitive and you've been all eaten up around the edges... Maybe it's tiem to cash out while you're ahead, so to speak. Not to mention, whatever familial unit you may have forged while partyin' finitely with fuccboyz is probably terribly resentful and atomized.

Your whole text above could have been written by Quakers a few centuries ago. There is no sign of anything having been learned in the last few centuries.

The First Nations had no sexual taboos, and were healthier and lived longer than Europeans (on first contact). What reduced their lives and health was European diseases and European mass murdering.

Europeans were sexually repressive, and this made them neurotic and hateful.
People are NOT diminished by sexual freedom or by following their instincts. Rather than waiting to party forever with Superman (which isn't going to happen to anyone, by the way), life is a search of natural pleasures.... but we currently contend with living inside a hopelessly neurotic and deceived society of people repressing sexuality, and consuming the entire earth to death as a neurotic side effect of denying natural instincts.

Sexless and Monogamous people will destroy the world because they secretly all want to die. Partying with Superman isn't credible to anyone, it's just a way of pretending that modern life is something other than group suicide. Suicide sounds a lot better when there's a superhero waiting for you with a cold beer in paradise, but that's not where I want to go - marketing suicide with lies.

Also, our REAL religion is technology because it's so obviously "super." Here's a quote about "religious" people in the era of techno-worship:

Clark T Scott wrote:the private accumulation of money and power over other lifeforms is their perversely delusional proof of divinity.


Image
Here's a nice Saint Christopher statue for the dashboard of a Hummer
#14954558
Beren wrote: I also wonder whether Vietnamese people wouldn't like to live like Germans, especially if they sustainably could.

We often imagine that poor countries we've plundered would rather live like the plundering nations do. But living on plunder is obviously not sustainable. It's like trying to stay drunk by cashing in your empties.

Rich, hyper-consuming nations like yours and mine have nothing to brag about when it comes to ordinary human relationships and community involvement. And yet, these are probably the most important features of a non-Superman-worshipping life. All our gadgets are just escapism. And they make us do great harm by addicting us to other nation's resources.

There's nothing super about stealing to have more stuff than others. There's nothing super about the way rich countries keep poor countries poor.
Trump's Dumb Economics

I see where Obese Donald has declared the Chairma[…]

Trump`s pressure

They certainly don't "brutalize" them. […]

If Ngo’s only evidence of violence by antifa is t[…]

The US Space Command (aka space cadets) is now of[…]