[Pants-of-dog]

Things that commie countries do better:

Less crime
Better basic education
More order
No homeless on the streets
Less drug addicts
More patriotism
More appreciative of the good things in life

Sure.

You know why?

A much tougher authoritarian government.
Give people a lot of freedom and they use that freedom to behave in a crappy manner.

No.

There is less crime because there is less desperation in terms of getting food, water, housing, etc.

There is better education because it is properly funded.

There are no homeless because everyone has a home.

There is less drug addiction because communist countries have better border security.

The other three are subjective.

[Julian658]

Sure.



No.

There is less crime because there is less desperation in terms of getting food, water, housing, etc.

Food rationing is common in socialist countries. See the video, just a couple of weeks old and filmed by AlJazeera, not exactly a right wing network. Click on the link
Cuban grocery stores are empty

But, I give credit to the Cubans---------------- they are not skinny like the Venezuelans

There is better education because it is properly funded.

For the love God! Are you one of those people that think education can be fixed by throwing money at it? Washington DC spends more money per pupil than most of the elite private schools in USA and yet only graduate 60% of students from high school.

Education is better in Cuba because the schools are run like private schools with a lot of discipline. And those that cannot get educated are weeded out. You cannot do that in a Western democracy. Cuban schools are run like catholic parochial schools with uniforms and strict discipline. In fact they are more strict than Catholic schools. Try that in a US public school? NO way José! If we tried to run schools like the Cubans the ACLU and the NAACP would not allow it.

There are no homeless because everyone has a home.

The American homeless choose to be homeless. They do not have that choice in Cuba.


In any event: You guys have a very idealistic view of socialism and fail to understand that humans are humans and make errors.
You guys also compare the defects of capitalism with the perfect Utopia of the last stage of communism. You guys compare real life with a theoretical commie heaven that will never be a reality. It sounds like religion!

[Pants-of-dog]

Food rationing is common in socialist countries. See the video, just a couple of weeks old and filmed by AlJazeera, not exactly a right wing network. Click on the link
Cuban grocery stores are empty

But, I give credit to the Cubans---------------- they are not skinny like the Venezuelans

No, I will not watch the video. In my opinion, this is a debate forum and you have the obligation to form an argument, including supporting a claim.

By presenting a video and asking someone else to watch it, you are obligating the other person to find your evidence for you.

But yes, there is food rationing in Cuba to a degree. By this I mean that it is easy and inexpensive to get enough healthy food to live on even if you make the lowest Cuban salary. It is very difficult to get tasty food made with fresh ingredients from all over the world. Because of the embargo.

For the love God! Are you one of those people that think education can be fixed by throwing money at it? Washington DC spends more money per pupil than most of the elite private schools in USA and yet only graduate 60% of students from high school.

Education is better in Cuba because the schools are run like private schools with a lot of discipline. And those that cannot get educated are weeded out. You cannot do that in a Western democracy. Cuban schools are run like catholic parochial schools with uniforms and strict discipline. In fact they are more strict than Catholic schools. Try that in a US public school? NO way José! If we tried to run schools like the Cubans the ACLU and the NAACP would not allow it.

I doubt it.

It was probably more due to creating free post secondary education, national literacy programs, opening educational opportunities to women, providing free daycare and housing for poor families who wish to study, a maximum of 12 students per class, and other policies that make it easier for almost anyone to get a good education.

The American homeless choose to be homeless. They do not have that choice in Cuba.

I doubt this as well.

Cuba supports the local housing market so that the average Cuban can own their home, and multigenerational family living is common. This, along with support for the mentally ill, does a lot.

In any event: You guys have a very idealistic view of socialism and fail to understand that humans are humans and make errors.
You guys also compare the defects of capitalism with the perfect Utopia of the last stage of communism. You guys compare real life with a theoretical commie heaven that will never be a reality. It sounds like religion!

Then it should be easy to show how we are wrong.

And we are actually comparing a small developing country to the wealthiest country in the world; i.e. Cuba and the USA, and noting that Cuba is as good as or better than the USA in many metrics.

[Julian658]

No, I will not watch the video. In my opinion, this is a debate forum and you have the obligation to form an argument, including supporting a claim.

By presenting a video and asking someone else to watch it, you are obligating the other person to find your evidence for you.

But yes, there is food rationing in Cuba to a degree. By this I mean that it is easy and inexpensive to get enough healthy food to live on even if you make the lowest Cuban salary. It is very difficult to get tasty food made with fresh ingredients from all over the world. Because of the embargo.

OK, at least you admit there is rationing of food. The video simply shows empty shelves in grocery stores and people waiting for hours to get their rations. No one in the video seems malnourished and the people seem orderly and well behaved. Nothing like the videos from Venezuela where the population is losing weight and there is chaos. I like Cuba a lot, I love how they maintain order and people act with courtesy. I knew many Cubans in Miami way back in the 1960s. They were upper class Cubans of European ancestry and came to the USA with nothing. Within a few short years they achieved the same standard of living as upper class Americans. They worked hard and craved education.

It was probably more due to creating free post secondary education, national literacy programs, opening educational opportunities to women, providing free daycare and housing for poor families who wish to study, a maximum of 12 students per class, and other policies that make it easier for almost anyone to get a good education.

Do you think free college will help people that cannot take advantage of free high school? Do you think free college will help people that are unable to graduate from FREE high school? This is the biggest problem in the poor areas in the USA. I wish the USA would emulate Cuba.

Americans thought that the solution to eradicate poverty was a college education for ALL. This simply lead to the student loan crisis where kids that had no business going to college borrowed money to later drop out or to study meaningless liberal art careers with ZERO job opportunities. They were duped by the colleges and the government. And the students are forbidden by law to declare bankruptcy for outstanding college loans. Meanwhile high paying jobs in Air and Heating. electrician, machinist, construction, etc are going begging for people. In my neck of the woods Hispanics have taken over the construction industry. They started as workers and now are contractors.

The other great thing about Cuba is that the state indoctrinates the kids on the history of Cuba, socialism, ethics, hard work, discipline, love for the country, etc. And the parents are forced to contribute to this indoctrination. They also mandate school uniforms and the school instills patriotism and a sense of unity. IN Cuba EVERYBODY is Cuban, they do not play identity politics.

They spend 13% of the budget on education. Early on they figure out who is college material and who is going to a trade or technical school. This is key and something Amy Klobuchar is preaching in the USA. Meanwhile all the other Democratic candidates think free college is the solution. You know quite well this is BS.

The concept of sending the non-college bound kids to trade schools is also done by the Germans and the Japanese. I have no idea why we are not doing this. IN addition, a Cuban kid must serve the nation in the military before he (oer she) is to be accepted to college. They must also show they are good citizens with a clean record and pro Cuban. Here in the USA we don't do anything like that. If anything we teach despair, mindless PC doctrines, identity politics, and hate for the nation. This is very evident to the senses.

Cuba supports the local housing market so that the average Cuban can own their home, and multigenerational family living is common. This, along with support for the mentally ill, does a lot.

At the onset Cuba did not believe in private property, but they are now moving into a more capitalistic society that allows private property. Good for them. And yet many American socialists are preaching the abolition of private property. Figure that one out!

Then it should be easy to show how we are wrong.

And we are actually comparing a small developing country to the wealthiest country in the world; i.e. Cuba and the USA, and noting that Cuba is as good as or better than the USA in many metrics.

Cuba is a blend of ethnicities (black, indigenous, Spanish), however they have a single national identity. Monocultural nations tend to do better than multicultural nations. The USA is also a blend of ethnicities but we are preaching multiculturalism and identity politics. This has led to tribalism and balkanization of America. This is something Cuba does way better than us.

[Unthinking Majority]

I like Cuba a lot, I love how they maintain order and people act with courtesy. I knew many Cubans in Miami way back in the 1960s. They were upper class Cubans of European ancestry and came to the USA with nothing. Within a few short years they achieved the same standard of living as upper class Americans. They worked hard and craved education.

Cuba is an interesting case. Some good things happening there. However, they do govern with tyranny. Upper-class Cubans you mentioned got out of Cuba in the 60's because after Castro took over he confiscated the wealth of anyone who was able to be successful, and wouldn't allow them to leave, or wouldn't allow them to leave with their own money. Meanwhile, the Castro's were hypocrites who lived lavishly by stealing their people's money, so they weren't themselves communists.

Communism only works through tyranny, because anyone with higher than average ability will be able to make more money in a market economy, and will therefore obviously want to leave & move to a country with a capitalist economy instead of giving their money to the government. The only way to prevent this is to force people with high ability to never leave the communist country and keep them a prisoner in their own country.

Communists think they're freeing workers from their chains, but they're just putting them in different chains.

[Julian658]

Cuba is an interesting case. Some good things happening there. However, they do govern with tyranny. Upper-class Cubans you mentioned got out of Cuba in the 60's because after Castro took over he confiscated the wealth of anyone who was able to be successful, and wouldn't allow them to leave, or wouldn't allow them to leave with their own money. Meanwhile, the Castro's were hypocrites who lived lavishly by stealing their people's money, so they weren't themselves communists.

Communism only works through tyranny, because anyone with higher than average ability will be able to make more money in a market economy, and will therefore obviously want to leave & move to a country with a capitalist economy instead of giving their money to the government. The only way to prevent this is to force people with high ability to never leave the communist country and keep them a prisoner in their own country.

Communists think they're freeing workers from their chains, but they're just putting them in different chains.

I agree with your post. However, American socialists are in love with Cuba. And i will admit Cubans have done some good things. The education system is pretty good mostly because they are an authoritarian state and run public schools like private parochial or military schools with strict discipline. If we ran American public schools in that manner education would improve.

[Hong Wu]

From what I've read of Cuba, it can take months to get things like spark plugs from the centrally controlled economy. Things are in such a thorough state of disrepair that collapsing buildings is a significantly common cause of death.

[Julian658]

From what I've read of Cuba, it can take months to get things like spark plugs from the centrally controlled economy. Things are in such a thorough state of disrepair that collapsing buildings is a significantly common cause of death.

I agree! I am a capitalist!

But, Cuba runs public schools in a rather effective manner because they are an authoritarian system. IN other words the schools are like military schools.

[Hong Wu]

I agree! I am a capitalist!

But, Cuba runs public schools in a rather effective manner because they are an authoritarian system. IN other words the schools are like military schools.

Good schools tend to be run that way. Practically no one who talks about disparate impact in public schools and so-on actually sends their kids to a public school. It's quite the awkward debate to watch really.

[Julian658]

Good schools tend to be run that way. Practically no one who talks about disparate impact in public schools and so-on actually sends their kids to a public school. It's quite the awkward debate to watch really.

Exactly! The good schools emphasize discipline, character, ethics, and a unifying single culture. However, the ACLU and the NAACP will never allow that in America.

[Pants-of-dog]

OK, at least you admit there is rationing of food. The video simply shows empty shelves in grocery stores and people waiting for hours to get their rations. No one in the video seems malnourished and the people seem orderly and well behaved. Nothing like the videos from Venezuela where the population is losing weight and there is chaos. I like Cuba a lot, I love how they maintain order and people act with courtesy. I knew many Cubans in Miami way back in the 1960s. They were upper class Cubans of European ancestry and came to the USA with nothing. Within a few short years they achieved the same standard of living as upper class Americans. They worked hard and craved education.

I would not describe it as rationing.

I would describe it as limited food options due to the US embargo.

Do you think free college will help people that cannot take advantage of free high school? Do you think free college will help people that are unable to graduate from FREE high school? This is the biggest problem in the poor areas in the USA. I wish the USA would emulate Cuba.

Americans thought that the solution to eradicate poverty was a college education for ALL. This simply lead to the student loan crisis where kids that had no business going to college borrowed money to later drop out or to study meaningless liberal art careers with ZERO job opportunities. They were duped by the colleges and the government. And the students are forbidden by law to declare bankruptcy for outstanding college loans. Meanwhile high paying jobs in Air and Heating. electrician, machinist, construction, etc are going begging for people. In my neck of the woods Hispanics have taken over the construction industry. They started as workers and now are contractors.

The failures of the USA are not failures of socialism or Cuba.

The other great thing about Cuba is that the state indoctrinates the kids on the history of Cuba, socialism, ethics, hard work, discipline, love for the country, etc. And the parents are forced to contribute to this indoctrination. They also mandate school uniforms and the school instills patriotism and a sense of unity. IN Cuba EVERYBODY is Cuban, they do not play identity politics.

I honestly think you know very little about Cuba, its culture, its education systems, and how the revolution was able to solve a lot of the problems that you describe as “identity politics”.

They spend 13% of the budget on education. Early on they figure out who is college material and who is going to a trade or technical school. This is key and something Amy Klobuchar is preaching in the USA. Meanwhile all the other Democratic candidates think free college is the solution. You know quite well this is BS.

The concept of sending the non-college bound kids to trade schools is also done by the Germans and the Japanese. I have no idea why we are not doing this. IN addition, a Cuban kid must serve the nation in the military before he (oer she) is to be accepted to college. They must also show they are good citizens with a clean record and pro Cuban. Here in the USA we don't do anything like that. If anything we teach despair, mindless PC doctrines, identity politics, and hate for the nation. This is very evident to the senses. [/b]

I am not interested in your opinion about education in the US

At the onset Cuba did not believe in private property, but they are now moving into a more capitalistic society that allows private property. Good for them. And yet many American socialists are preaching the abolition of private property. Figure that one out!

Cuba was never against personal property, including home ownership.

All socialists are against private property.

Marxists define personal property and private property as two different things.

Cuba is a blend of ethnicities (black, indigenous, Spanish), however they have a single national identity. Monocultural nations tend to do better than multicultural nations. The USA is also a blend of ethnicities but we are preaching multiculturalism and identity politics. This has led to tribalism and balkanization of America. This is something Cuba does way better than us.

Nor am I interested in your vaguely racist views about multiculturalism.

[Julian658]

I would not describe it as rationing.

I would describe it as limited food options due to the US embargo.



The failures of the USA are not failures of socialism or Cuba.



I honestly think you know very little about Cuba, its culture, its education systems, and how the revolution was able to solve a lot of the problems that you describe as “identity politics”.



I am not interested in your opinion about education in the US



Cuba was never against personal property, including home ownership.

All socialists are against private property.

Marxists define personal property and private property as two different things.



Nor am I interested in your vaguely racist views about multiculturalism.

I am sure you are well aware that a one line reply that vaguely or remote applies to the subject is a debate fallacy. In fact, the forum frowns on that technique. It is a way to avoid discussing an issue at length and in depth.

A multiracial population with a single unifying culture is much less racist than a multiracial population with individual different cultures. The latter leads to balkanization and tribalism.

[Pants-of-dog]

I am sure you are well aware that one line replies that vaguely or remote apply to the subject is a debate fallacy. In fact, the forum frowns on that technique. It is a way to avoid discussing an issue at length and in depth.

A multiracial population with a single unifying culture is much less racist than a multiracial population with individual different cultures. The latter leads to balkanization and tribalism.

Please provide evidence for your claim that a multiracial population with a single unifying culture is much less racist than a multiracial population with individual different cultures.

Thank you.

Also, please note that this claim has nothing to do with Cuba or socialism, or whether or not diversity presumes inequality.

[Julian658]

Please provide evidence for your claim that a multiracial population with a single unifying culture is much less racist than a multiracial population with individual different cultures.

A nation with multiple ethnicities and with every ethnicity remaining culturally different from others is a NEW concept. Whether this will be successful or not remains to be seen. As a political process, however, multiculturalism describes a set of policies, the aim of which is to manage diversity by putting people into ethnic boxes.

Many people always use the concept of ethnic cuisine to promote multiculturalism. And I agree! It works when the newly arrived culture is small in numbers. In this instance the new culture is embraced as beneficial and quite cute. No disagreement!

However, what happens if each newly arrived culture grows in very large numbers and demands power and a change of the local culture to suit their own needs? Why do you think populism and nationalism has grown in the Western Nations? Did you check the results of the EU elections in Europe?

Multiculturalism is great as long as things are great for all groups. However, during times of stress and economic depression people tend to look to their own tribe and reject others. We evolved in tribes and hence this is written into our DNA, namely the amygdala in the limbic system. To negate these impulses one must actively try to suppress the amygdala and this is not easy as the amygdala works on auto pilot.

Multiculturalism fails to resolve the issue of racism. Instead of looking at the social roots of racism and what structural changes are required to combat it they simply demand recognition for one's particular identity.

In any event, the answer to your question will be evident in a 100 years or so. BTW, a good way of eliminating racism is to promote racial mixing and hence eliminating the pure races. Sadly, racism will them be replaced by classism.

Also, please note that this claim has nothing to do with Cuba or socialism, or whether or not diversity presumes inequality.

By definition diversity is the same as inequality. But, I o farther there is no equality among members of the same ethnic group so the pursuit of equality is useless. I know Cuba extremely well! I grew up with Cubans and I know people that lived on the island. And subtle racism is present in Cuba even though they are all Cubans. Prestigious positions are mostly filled by Cubans of Spanish ancestry.

[Pants-of-dog]

A nation with multiple ethnicities and with every ethnicity remaining culturally different from others is a NEW concept. Whether this will be successful or not remains to be seen. As a political process, however, multiculturalism describes a set of policies, the aim of which is to manage diversity by putting people into ethnic boxes.

Many people always use the concept of ethnic cuisine to promote multiculturalism. And I agree! It works when the newly arrived culture is small in numbers. In this instance the new culture is embraced as beneficial and quite cute. No disagreement!

However, what happens if each newly arrived culture grows in very large numbers and demands power and a change of the local culture to suit their own needs? Why do you think populism and nationalism has grown in the Western Nations? Did you check the results of the EU elections in Europe?

Multiculturalism is great as long as things are great for all groups. However, during times of stress and economic depression people tend to look to their own tribe and reject others. We evolved in tribes and hence this is written into our DNA, namely the amygdala in the limbic system. To negate these impulses one must actively try to suppress the amygdala and this is not easy as the amygdala works on auto pilot.

Multiculturalism fails to resolve the issue of racism. Instead of looking at the social roots of racism and what structural changes are required to combat it they simply demand recognition for one's particular identity.

In any event, the answer to your question will be evident in a 100 years or so. BTW, a good way of eliminating racism is to promote racial mixing and hence eliminating the pure races. Sadly, racism will them be replaced by classism.

By “evidence”, I mean a link to an objective source that supports your claims, and you then quote the text from the link that supports your claim.

When you do this, wr can both look at the evidence and see if it really supports your claim.

By definition diversity is the same as inequality.

No, that is incorrect.

It is easy to imagine examples of diversity where there is no inequality.

But, I o farther there is no equality among members of the same ethnic group so the pursuit of equality is useless. I know Cuba extremely well! I grew up with Cubans and I know people that lived on the island. And subtle racism is present in Cuba even though they are all Cubans. Prestigious positions are mostly filled by Cubans of Spanish ancestry.

Not quite. Since you have never been to Cuba, the Cubans you know are Miami expats.

They probably display the same not so subtle racism that was part of the class system before the revolution. Classism is very powerful in Latin America.

Also, bolding your entire post makes it harder to read.

[Julian658]

By “evidence”, I mean a link to an objective source that supports your claims, and you then quote the text from the link that supports your claim.

When you do this, wr can both look at the evidence and see if it really supports your claim.

There are zillion of articles on multiculturalism, but at the end of the day they are just opinion pieces by the media. At best we can look at history. There are no successful multicultural nations in the past. The Romans tried multiculturalism and the empire fell. In fact, the Romans allowed Christianity and within a short time the Roman emperor was replaced by Christian leaders, the Popes.

I could post a 1000 articles that suggest multiculturalism is not a good idea, but at the end of the day they are articles. I suggest you look at history and make an assessment. We have some examples in the past. For example in America the indigenous people and the blacks have embraced multiculturalism with little success. The Asians and the Latin people assimilate very rapidly and intermarry and they have better outcomes. When a black and a white person get along quite well they generally adopt common values , not what makes them different. It is common sense!

It is easy to imagine examples of diversity where there is no inequality.

Please provide examples. I am always happy to learn something new.

Not quite. Since you have never been to Cuba, the Cubans you know are Miami expats.

They probably display the same not so subtle racism that was part of the class system before the revolution. Classism is very powerful in Latin America.

Also, bolding your entire post makes it harder to read.

You are using the racism argument again. That is not a valid argument! Yes, there is less classism in Cuba, but there is a hierarchy. There will always be a hierarchy because hierarchies are natural.

Here is an article by Henry Louis Gates Jr. This man has dedicated his life to the study of racism and he is on the left. I just want to be sure you realize the article is not written by a right winger.

https://www.theroot.com/one-on-one-with ... 1790860590Watch an American try to impose identity politics in Cuba

You have been clamoring for citations and now you will say you did not read the article. I am one step ahead of you.

[Pants-of-dog]

There are zillion of articles on multiculturalism, but at the end of the day they are just opinion pieces by the media. At best we can look at history. There are no successful multicultural nations in the past. The Romans tried multiculturalism and the empire fell. In fact, the Romans allowed Christianity and within a short time the Roman emperor was replaced by Christian leaders, the Popes.

You are contradicting yourself here.

First you blame multiculturalism for the fall of Rome (despite the fact that Rome had no multiculturalism policies) and then you blamed Christianity.

I could post a 1000 articles that suggest multiculturalism is not a good idea, but at the end of the day they are articles. I suggest you look at history and make an assessment. We have some examples in the past. For example in America the indigenous people and the blacks have embraced multiculturalism withy little success. The Asians and the Latin people assimilate very rapidly and intermarry and they have better outcomes. When a black and a white person get along quite well they generally adopt common values , not what makes them different. It is common sense!

I am going to assume you have no evidence, and you are simply parroting things you read about multiculturalism from conservative blogs.

I am now dismissing your claims about multiculturalism.

Please provide examples. I am always happy to learn something new.

Salt and pepper.

A field of different weeds.

Racial diversity in a prison chain gang.

Racial diversity in Cuba.

You are using the racism argument again. That is not a valid argument! Yes, there is less classism in Cuba, but there is a hierarchy. There will always be a hierarchy because hierarchies are natural.

I am pointing out how race and classism are intertwined in Latino cultures, which is perfectly valid.

Dying from smallpox is natural. Will people always die from smallpox? If not, then it is incorrect to assume that things will last forever because they are natural.

Here is an article by Henry Louis Gates Jr. This man has dedicated his life to the study of racism and he is on the left. I just want to be sure you realize the article is not written by a right winger.

https://www.theroot.com/one-on-one-with ... 1790860590Watch an American try to impose identity politics in Cuba

You have been clamoring for citations and now you will say you did not read the article. I am one step ahead of you.

Please quote the text that supports your claim.

[Julian658]

You are contradicting yourself here.

First you blame multiculturalism for the fall of Rome (despite the fact that Rome had no multiculturalism policies) and then you blamed Christianity.

Hmm, it sees you have forgotten your high school history. At the onset the Romans were anti-Christian. Then Constantine converted to Christianity and within a century or so Christianity replaced Roman Paganism. The Romans also gave citizenship to the German barbarians whom at the end supported their tribes rather the empire. And the Empire fell and was replaced the Catholic Church. I suggest you brush up on your history.

I am going to assume you have no evidence, and you are simply parroting things you read about multiculturalism from conservative blogs.

I am now dismissing your claims about multiculturalism.

This is not exactly news: Many blacks and native Americans have failed to integrate into American culture because they favor multiculturalism. OTOH, Hispanics and Asians assimilate much better. I could give you articles but you will not read them.

Salt and pepper.

A field of different weeds.

Racial diversity in a prison chain gang.

Racial diversity in Cuba.

Ha, ha, you are trolling! Actually, I hope you are trolling. If you are serious we have a problem.

I am pointing out how race and classism are intertwined in Latino cultures, which is perfectly valid.

I agree! All cultures have classism and racism.

Dying from smallpox is natural. Will people always die from smallpox? If not, then it is incorrect to assume that things will last forever because they are natural.

Sure, we could evolve and things may change. But, evolution does not happen overnight. I could find 100,000 golfers and they could practice golf 24/7 for a lifetime and none of them would be as good as Tiger Woods was in his heyday. The hierarchy is a bitch!

Please quote the text that supports your claim.

I knew you would not read it.


I needed to talk to real Cubans and to find out what they thought about race and racism in their society. Soon enough, I was chatting away with our drivers, two men who were part of our film crew named Rafael and Yoxander. They were proud to be Cuban and happy to discuss race with me. I started by asking Rafael, who has a complexion like coffee, what color he is.

“I am mixed race,” he replied. “I’m simply Cuban. It is a mixture of all the races.”

I asked the two men to tell me about the people around us on the streets. They are Cuban, yes, but what else are they? I soon learned there are still categories of blackness within cubanidad.

[What is cubanidad? In the twenties, through music and culture, Cuba’s government and elite population stopped rejecting everything Afro-Cuban and favoring everything European. They began celebrating Cuba’s racially mixed, or mestizo, heritage. This cultural-identity movement was called cubanidad, a blend of white and black, to make brown.]

But I then took the opportunity to ask them why there weren’t more professors like me at the universities—and why the affluent neighborhoods didn’t have more black residents.

“I think perhaps it is because white people like to study more,” Yoxander said, surprising me with his frankness.
I asked him if he believes there is racial discrimination in Cuba.

“Not really,” he said, shaking his head, “not on a grand scale. We all grew up together—white, mestizo, black, mulatto. We were all educated to the same level.”

“Why do you think there are more baseball players, proportionately, than black lawyers or doctors?” I asked.

“There’s a tendency for black people to practice sports,” he said, patiently. He was listening to my questions, but they weren’t really engaging him. He told me he had never experienced discrimination in Cuba, and he assured me that ordinary Cubans don’t either. The revolution got rid of racism, he said.

[Unthinking Majority]

I agree with your post. However, American socialists are in love with Cuba. And i will admit Cubans have done some good things. The education system is pretty good mostly because they are an authoritarian state and run public schools like private parochial or military schools with strict discipline. If we ran American public schools in that manner education would improve.

As I've said before, Cuba doesn't show that communism is good, it shows that strong institutions of law and order is good, and shows that a strong welfare state where everyone has equal access to basic education and health care is a good thing. All of this has been achieved in many capitalist liberal democracies around the world, with just about the lone exception in the West being the United States.

Meanwhile, we've seen in every other communist country horrible tyranny with collapsing and woefully inefficient economies where the populace suffers horrifically. In the developing world, we've seen time and again, especially with the east asian tigers, that the best recipe for success is a market economy with a strong state that is able to unleash the market's potential while controlling and guide the market away from things like predatory foreign investment and providing strong institutions, law and order, regulations, and basic social welfare for the people.

[Pants-of-dog]

Hmm, it sees you have forgotten your high school history. At the onset the Romans were anti-Christian. Then Constantine converted to Christianity and within a century or so Christianity replaced Roman Paganism. The Romans also gave citizenship to the German barbarians whom at the end supported their tribes rather the empire. And the Empire fell and was replaced the Catholic Church. I suggest you brush up on your history.

So this has nothing to do with multiculturalism.

Your little insults do not make you seem smarter.

This is not exactly news: Many blacks and native Americans have failed to integrate into American culture because they favor multiculturalism. OTOH, Hispanics and Asians assimilate much better. I could give you articles but you will not read them.

Please provide these articles.

And also explain why you are ignoring the roles of colonialism and slavery when looking at the problems currently facing indigenous and black people in North America.

Ha, ha, you are trolling! Actually, I hope you are trolling. If you are serious we have a problem. :?:

As long as we agree that there are many examples of diversity that are not also examples of inequality, and that the definition of diversity does not include inequality.

I agree! All cultures have classism and racism.

Anyway, your understanding of contemporary Cuban culture is incorrect if you are basing it on expats who grew up with this classist experience, since Cubans living on the island do not share this classist experience.

Sure, we could evolve and things may change. But, evolution does not happen overnight. I could find 100,000 golfers and they could practice golf 24/7 for a lifetime and none of them would be as good as Tiger Woods was in his heyday. The hierarchy is a bitch!

I never mentioned evolution.

My point was that hierarchies will not necessarily last forever.

I knew you would not read it.

Was I supposed to read it for you, quote the text for you, show everyone how it supports your claim for you, and write it all out for you? No. You can do your own work.

Now, what exactly is your claim that you are trying to support with this essay?

I needed to talk to real Cubans and to find out what they thought about race and racism in their society. Soon enough, I was chatting away with our drivers, two men who were part of our film crew named Rafael and Yoxander. They were proud to be Cuban and happy to discuss race with me. I started by asking Rafael, who has a complexion like coffee, what color he is.

“I am mixed race,” he replied. “I’m simply Cuban. It is a mixture of all the races.”

I asked the two men to tell me about the people around us on the streets. They are Cuban, yes, but what else are they? I soon learned there are still categories of blackness within cubanidad.

[What is cubanidad? In the twenties, through music and culture, Cuba’s government and elite population stopped rejecting everything Afro-Cuban and favoring everything European. They began celebrating Cuba’s racially mixed, or mestizo, heritage. This cultural-identity movement was called cubanidad, a blend of white and black, to make brown.]

But I then took the opportunity to ask them why there weren’t more professors like me at the universities—and why the affluent neighborhoods didn’t have more black residents.

“I think perhaps it is because white people like to study more,” Yoxander said, surprising me with his frankness.
I asked him if he believes there is racial discrimination in Cuba.

“Not really,” he said, shaking his head, “not on a grand scale. We all grew up together—white, mestizo, black, mulatto. We were all educated to the same level.”

“Why do you think there are more baseball players, proportionately, than black lawyers or doctors?” I asked.

“There’s a tendency for black people to practice sports,” he said, patiently. He was listening to my questions, but they weren’t really engaging him. He told me he had never experienced discrimination in Cuba, and he assured me that ordinary Cubans don’t either. The revolution got rid of racism, he said.

So, how does this support whatever claim you are making?