Trump and Russiagate - Page 57 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By jimjam
#14843282
Hindsite wrote:It doesn't seem possible to me. However, I am glad to see that you seem okay and the hurricane hasn't hindered your posting. Praise the Lord.


Thank you H.S. .................... we disagree on everything but .......... that's ok. That's the fun of it. I was (Praise the Lord) in Maine during the hurricane and my place in Florida sustained no damage :D . Dodged another of life's bullets.
#14843290
jimjam wrote:Thank you H.S. .................... we disagree on everything but .......... that's ok. That's the fun of it. I was (Praise the Lord) in Maine during the hurricane and my place in Florida sustained no damage :D . Dodged another of life's bullets.

I am honestly happy for you. In my opinion, we don't disagree on everything for I also think the debate is fun. Anyway, the disagreeing and debating helps us come to the knowledge of the truth. We all wish for that, right?
User avatar
By ArtAllm
#14843330
It seems that the so-called "Russiagate" quietly died, the deadly MSM-grip on the brains of the Normies becomes less effective.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14843339
ArtAllm wrote:It seems that the so-called "Russiagate" quietly died, the deadly MSM-grip on the brains of the Normies becomes less effective.

When there is nothing there and even the special prosecutor must move on to get the special IRS team on tax fraud to help him get something on Trump, any normal person would realize the Russiagate conspiracy is a dud and made up by the Democrats.
#14843360
Perhaps. Perhaps not. For all you know, there may be stuff there in such volumes that Mueller requires more help. Perhaps he's looking for ways to prosecute that are unpardonable
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14843370
Stormsmith wrote:Perhaps. Perhaps not. For all you know, there may be stuff there in such volumes that Mueller requires more help. Perhaps he's looking for ways to prosecute that are unpardonable

Yeah, like Trump said, "It's a witch hunt."
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14843376
Zagadka wrote:As opposed to blow jobs or birth certificates or leaked emails.

How is the whole "lock her up" thing going, anyway?

That is a secret that can't be revealed at this time.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14843441
Hindsite wrote:I am honestly happy for you. In my opinion, we don't disagree on everything for I also think the debate is fun. Anyway, the disagreeing and debating helps us come to the knowledge of the truth. We all wish for that, right?

Thanks Hindsite .......... do you have a brother named Foresite?
The truth? A very elusive commodity , especially these days. I hear it shall make us free. I think most thinking folks seek truth. My personal method, especially in politics, is to follow the money.

Back on topic: Russian money, illicit and otherwise, began to rain in earnest after the Soviet Union fell in 1991. President Boris Yeltsin’s shift to a market economy was so abrupt that cash-rich gangsters and corrupt government officials were able to privatize and loot state-held assets in oil, coal, minerals, and banking. Yeltsin himself, in fact, would later describe Russia as “the biggest mafia state in the world.” After Vladimir Putin succeeded Yeltsin as president, Russian intelligence effectively joined forces with the country’s mobsters and oligarchs, allowing them to operate freely as long as they strengthen Putin’s power and serve his personal financial interests. According to James Henry, a former chief economist at McKinsey & Company who consulted on the Panama Papers, some $1.3 trillion in illicit capital has poured out of Russia since the 1990s.

As Donald's loose cannon, Donald junior, so succinctly put it at a 2008 real estate conference: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets, We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”
#14843477
jimjam wrote:Thanks Hindsite .......... do you have a brother named Foresite?
The truth? A very elusive commodity , especially these days. I hear it shall make us free. I think most thinking folks seek truth. My personal method, especially in politics, is to follow the money.

Back on topic: Russian money, illicit and otherwise, began to rain in earnest after the Soviet Union fell in 1991. President Boris Yeltsin’s shift to a market economy was so abrupt that cash-rich gangsters and corrupt government officials were able to privatize and loot state-held assets in oil, coal, minerals, and banking. Yeltsin himself, in fact, would later describe Russia as “the biggest mafia state in the world.” After Vladimir Putin succeeded Yeltsin as president, Russian intelligence effectively joined forces with the country’s mobsters and oligarchs, allowing them to operate freely as long as they strengthen Putin’s power and serve his personal financial interests. According to James Henry, a former chief economist at McKinsey & Company who consulted on the Panama Papers, some $1.3 trillion in illicit capital has poured out of Russia since the 1990s.

As Donald's loose cannon, Donald junior, so succinctly put it at a 2008 real estate conference: “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross section of a lot of our assets, We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

Trump and his family were in business to earn money. I can't fault them for that. The Russian corruption problem was not the Trump family's fault.
#14843551
jimjam wrote:It is interesting that Trumpophiles cannot possible accept that trump, basically, fucked up financially.

It doesn't matter to us. What matters is that he upset the political establishment. We've had enough of them, and there isn't much that Trump could do or not do that would make them more appealing to us. Ergo, it's not about Trump. It never has been really.

jimjam wrote:So ........... trump paid $407,000,000 for the Plaza and, a few years later, the banks took it away from him and sold it for $325,000,000 and certain Trumpophiles would have us believe this and other financial fuck ups are simply a demonstration of trump's genius :?: .

Actually, Trump didn't pay $407M. Most of that was paid by Citibank, which is why they were able to take title to the property for non-performance on the loan. Trump avoided bankruptcy, and maintained control of signature properties like Trump Tower. Given the situation he was in, that is essentially turning lemons into lemonade.

jimjam wrote:Like July 17, 1972, the date of the Watergate break-in, Trump Junior’s June 9, 2016, Trump Tower meeting has become the load-bearing date upon which the greater scandal rests.

Except the establishment was sloppy here. Donald Trump apparently had no knowledge of the meeting, and Trump Jr. didn't solicit the meeting. In actual fact, the Russian attorney in question was allowed in to the the United States by the Attorney General's office on an immigration parole (an extraordinary measure), because her visa application was rejected. This suggests deep state involvement in the attorney in question's very presence in the US. It was a publicist who solicited the meeting with Trump, suggesting that the attorney had knowledge of incriminating activity on the part of Clinton. Trump was eager to hear about this information. That is not a crime. The solicitation was apparently misleading, as the attorney only wanted to talk about the Magnitsky Act. So the meeting was cut short. So this "load bearing date" means nothing. Also, since the allegation is a conspiracy, statute of limitations runs from the last overt act, not the first.

As it is, nothing can be proven as a matter of law regarding the server getting hacked, because it is not in evidence and the state of the server is more than likely compromised at this point. The load bearing aspect of the investigation is that Trump solicited Russia to hack the DNC and Podesta's server. Hillary's server had already been hacked, so clearly Trump had nothing to with that. There is virtually no evidence that Trump somehow bankrolled or participated in the hacking of Podesta or the DNC.

An odd aspect of the case is that the Russian attorney--actively lobbying for the Russian government--violated the terms of her immigration parole, which is a crime. She has not been charged by the independent counsel, even though it is dispositive of fact that she committed a crime. So this is nothing more than a self-preservation operation by the deep state.

jimjam wrote:So ............ an "expert" lawyer (presumably on Fox Fake News) has access to the same info that Robert Mueller and Mr. Schneiderman have? :lol:

Essentially, yes.

jimjam wrote:Hindsite, this will take weeks/months to play out.

From my perspective, this looks like nothing more than Hillary Clinton donors recuperating their donations at taxpayers expense.

jimjam wrote:Trump owes much of his business success, and by extension his presidency, to a flow of highly suspicious money from Russia.

Highly suspicious money from Russia is not a crime. Landlords are generally not held criminally liable for the actions of their tenants.

jimjam wrote:Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in, and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties.

Golly gee willikers! That's just fascinating jimjam. Can you tell me one of them who is the subject of Mueller's investigation? So far, he seems to be trying to put something up Manafort's arse. It's an odd thing if what you say is true. The only criminal act that we know of and the person who did it is the Russian attorney who violated the terms of her immigration parole and conducted some unlawful lobbying.

jimjam wrote:Many used his apartments and casinos to launder untold millions in dirty money.

You don't say! You know what? I bet some people used cocaine and had hookers in his hotels too! Oooh!

jimjam wrote:Some ran a worldwide high-stakes gambling ring out of Trump Tower—in a unit directly below one owned by Trump.

Oh, no! Gambling? Oh my gosh. Somebody call the poker police.

jimjam wrote:Others provided Trump with lucrative branding deals that required no investment on his part.

That's how endorsements generally work. That's why sports stars don't have to invest in Nike when they make "Air Jordan" shoes, etc. They are the ones getting paid.

jimjam wrote:Taken together, the flow of money from Russia provided Trump with a crucial infusion of financing that helped rescue his empire from ruin, burnish his image, and launch his career in television and politics.

"Money from Russia" still means nothing in terms of law. The US normalized diplomatic relations with Russia.

jimjam wrote:“They saved his bacon,” says Kenneth McCallion, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Reagan administration who investigated ties between organized crime and Trump’s developments in the 1980s.

The 80s... that's 30 years ago. A little past the statute of limitations, don't you think?

jimjam wrote:Semion Mogilevich is definitely a Russian business man :lol: .

And a Jew! (gulp)

jimjam wrote:It’s entirely possible that Trump was never more than a convenient patsy for Russian oligarchs and mobsters, with his casinos and condos providing easy pass-throughs for their illicit riches. At the very least, with his constant need for new infusions of cash and his well-documented troubles with creditors, Trump made an easy “mark” for anyone looking to launder money. But whatever his knowledge about the source of his wealth, the public record makes clear that Trump built his business empire in no small part with a lot of dirty money from a lot of dirty Russians—including the dirtiest and most feared of them all.

You're a landlord yourself. Do you think that all your tenants are pure as the wind-driven snow? Do any of them do drugs? Do they gamble? Do they go to strip clubs or frequent prostitutes? The fact is, that doesn't matter. If you are a co-owner of someone who does, you may have some business trouble. If you have a tenant or a creditor who does, it's not your problem. It's not Trump's problem either. If they want to buy or rent properties in Trump casinos or high rises, that's their right. If they are doing it in furtherance of a conspiracy, that's their liability, not Trump's. As a landlord, you should know this. So why are you trolling about all this clap trap?


ArtAllm wrote:It seems that the so-called "Russiagate" quietly died, the deadly MSM-grip on the brains of the Normies becomes less effective.

Yeah. It's what I suspected: they are just recovering their campaign contributions at taxpayer expense. There is nothing these shit heads wouldn't do.

Stormsmith wrote:Perhaps. Perhaps not. For all you know, there may be stuff there in such volumes that Mueller requires more help. Perhaps he's looking for ways to prosecute that are unpardonable

No such thing, unless it's the president himself.

Zagadka wrote:How is the whole "lock her up" thing going, anyway?

She's getting a pass from the Justice Department, even though it is clear she broke the law. That's why we don't defend the Republicans anymore. They're no good either.

jimjam wrote:My personal method, especially in politics, is to follow the money.

Except if it involves Democrats, and more succinctly the Clintons. There are a lot of ties to the Clintons and Russia that have a lot more troubling characteristics than anything involving Trump. Why aren't you interested in that? If Russia is so bad, why should we sell them uranium mines so they can make nuclear weapons and wipe us off the face of the Earth? Policy-wise, that doesn't seem particularly sound; yet, the Clinton Foundation got a windfall in donations from Russia and Bill Clinton gave a speech for $500k dollars around that time.

Just so you know jimjam: I like you. I will give you a speech for just $400k. :D I'm sorry, but I don't have any uranium or plutonium to sell you.
#14843716
Hindsite wrote:Trump and his family were in business to earn money. I can't fault them for that. The Russian corruption problem was not the Trump family's fault.


Umm yeah and the crime rate has nothing to do with the huge network of gun smugglers and distributors who sell guns to anyone who offer the money and drugs. No one forced the Trumps to deal with the Russians, they did it willingly and intentionally. They can only be excused if they did it unintentionally or indirectly or under duress. There is no evidence of duress though.
User avatar
By jimjam
#14843727
blackjack21 wrote:It doesn't matter to us. What matters is that he upset the political establishment. We've had enough of them, and there isn't much that Trump could do or not do that would make them more appealing to us. Ergo, it's not about Trump. It never has been really.

We are in agreement about upsetting the political establishment which stinks to high heaven. But if you were unhappy with your doctor would you fire him and bring in the guy who installed your aluminium siding to operate on your heart? Ergo it is about Trump who is incompetent for the position he holds and a lunatic to boot.
blackjack21 wrote:Actually, Trump didn't pay $407M. Most of that was paid by Citibank, which is why they were able to take title to the property for non-performance on the loan

A bit of hair splitting here I would say. It was Trump's deal, he agreed to the price.

blackjack21 wrote:Essentially, yes.

So, you really think that Mueller and Schneiderman provided a Fox Fake News lawyer/performer with what information they know to date? Far out :eek: .

blackjack21 wrote:Highly suspicious money from Russia is not a crime


Money laundering is and we will eventually see how good or bad Trump and Russian mobsters are at covering their tracks.

blackjack21 wrote:Golly gee willikers! That's just fascinating jimjam. Can you tell me one of them who is the subject of Mueller's investigation?


Where there is smoke there is fire. Unfortunately I cannot provide details of Mueller's investigation ... the cad unfriended me on facebook.

blackjack21 wrote:You don't say! You know what? I bet some people used cocaine and had hookers in his hotels too! Oooh!


I would imagine they masturbated in the men's room too but ........... we are talking, once again, about money laundering.

blackjack21 wrote:The 80s... that's 30 years ago. A little past the statute of limitations, don't you think?

Beside the point. I am interested in the competence of the man in whom a large stake in America's future has been granted.

blackjack21 wrote:And a Jew! (gulp)


So what! The man is an evil piece of jet trash is the point. His rumored ability to deliver the makings of weapons of mass destruction to the highest bidder — as well as his experience in smuggling opium from Afghanistan — would take on the very highest importance after 9/11, when European intelligence sources reported that al-Qaeda representatives had contacted Mogilevich in search of nuclear material. Trump's BFF? Birds of a feather flocking together? We shall see in due time.

blackjack21 wrote:So why are you trolling about all this clap trap?


Because it smacks of the truth. Come on #21 do you honestly believe that Trump has never dealt with mobsters? I am starting to think that you are naïve.

blackjack21 wrote:Except if it involves Democrats, and more succinctly the Clintons


I could not agree more that the Democrats and the Clintons are two faced liars and crooks but it is the fruit cake in the Whitehouse that I am presently discussing. Your best chance of discovering the truth is to follow the money is a precept I apply to most aspects of my life because ........... it works.

blackjack21 wrote:Just so you know jimjam: I like you.


I like you too. You are one of the brightest people have "met" in recent times. But, since you recently sided with a talented con artist , perhaps I can sell you a bridge.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14844110
MistyTiger wrote:Umm yeah and the crime rate has nothing to do with the huge network of gun smugglers and distributors who sell guns to anyone who offer the money and drugs. No one forced the Trumps to deal with the Russians, they did it willingly and intentionally. They can only be excused if they did it unintentionally or indirectly or under duress. There is no evidence of duress though.

The cold war against the Soviet Union ended years ago. The Russian people were never our enemies. It was those in power that subjugated those wonderful people. I have a friend that went over to Russia and brought back a Russian bride. She is a wonderful lady.

Putin is said to be part of that old Soviet Union system, but I don't understand why we should vilify all Russians and not do business with them because of those that have grabbed power in their government. Do you vilify all Americans in the U.S. and refuse to do business with them because you don't like our President? I hope you are not that shallow in your thinking.

Garry Kasparov interview with Fareed Zakaria; 1-10-2016



Garry Kasparov on Trump, Sanders, Clinton, Obama, and American Politics Today


Published on Jun 18, 2016
#14844113
Hindsite wrote:The cold war against the Soviet Union ended years ago. The Russian people were never our enemies. It was those in power that subjugated those wonderful people. I have a friend that went over to Russia and brought back a Russian bride. She is a wonderful lady.

Putin is said to be part of that old Soviet Union system, but I don't understand why we should vilify all Russians and not do business with them because of those that have grabbed power in their government. Do you vilify all Americans in the U.S. and refuse to do business with them because you don't like our President? I hope you are not that shallow in your thinking.

Garry Kasparov interview with Fareed Zakaria; 1-10-2016



Garry Kasparov on Trump, Sanders, Clinton, Obama, and American Politics Today


Published on Jun 18, 2016


Good for your friend!

Unfortunately I work with 2 Russian women and neither are very good. Both of them are playing me and my co-workers. They are laughing their butts off about us silly Americans. I don't like their mind games.

Many Russians in business are sly and tricky. In general, they may not be all that bad but when it comes to money and power, Russians can get quite ruthless and overbearing. My dad has had Russian managers and most of them turned out to be quite mean and crazy, one of them he even called "evil" and my dad is not one to throw out that word lightly.
#14844125
Putin is said to be part of that old Soviet Union system, but I don't understand why we should vilify all Russians and not do business with them because of those that have grabbed power in their government. Do you vilify all Americans in the U.S. and refuse to do business with them because you don't like our President? I hope you are not that shallow in your thinking.



Russia does do business with you:

Below is a list showcasing 15 of Russia’s top trading partners in terms of export sales, revealing which countries imported the most Russian shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total Russian exports.
Netherlands: US$29.3 billion (10.2% of total Russian exports)
China: $28 billion (9.8%)
Germany: $21.3 billion (7.4%)
Belarus: $14.1 billion (4.9%)
Turkey: $13.7 billion (4.8%)
Italy: $11.9 billion (4.2%)
South Korea: $10 billion (3.5%)
Kazakhstan: $9.4 billion (3.3%)
United States: $9.4 billion (3.3%)
Japan: $9.4 billion (3.3%)
Poland: $9.1 billion (3.2%)
United Kingdom: $7 billion (2.5%)
Finland: $6.5 billion (2.3%)
Ukraine: $6.3 billion (2.2%)
Belgium: $5.7 billion (2%)

The issue at hand is does Trump knowingly do business w/Russia (and we know this bits true), and is it illegal. Mueller is very fastidious lyrics in going over the evidence
Trump's sweating orange Juice! 8)
#14844136
Stormsmith wrote:The issue at hand is does Trump knowingly do business w/Russia (and we know this bits true), and is it illegal. Mueller is very fastidious lyrics in going over the evidence
Trump's sweating orange Juice! 8)


So that explains why his skin is orange! And his name isn't even OJ. :lol:

@Hindsite Mueller and others are leveling conflict of interest claims at Trump and team and I think their claims are holding up. If you do business with Russians while claiming to the public to not be in bed with the Russians and yet you have dealings with the Russians, then you are a liar. If a person claims that they are putting the US first but give Russia preferential treatment because of past dealings, then the conflict of interest exists. Trump cannot have it both ways. Who is more important to him, Russia or the US? He has to choose and make it clear. The investigations have shown that the waters are murky.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#14844139
Stormsmith wrote:The issue at hand is does Trump knowingly do business w/Russia (and we know this bits true), and is it illegal.

No we don't. We only know that he has done business with Russians in the past, such as the 2013 Miss Universe contest in Moscow and at that time talk of possibly building a Trump Tower there, but it never happened. However, many other people of the U.S. have done business with Russians and continue to do business with Russians and it has still not been declared illegal. The only reason to pick on Trump, and not all those other Americans that are doing business with the Russians, is because the Democrats lost the election to Trump. Even some Republican never Trumpers would like to find some Russian collusion, so they can remove Trump from office, because he threatens their business as usual in Washington, D. C.

Politiks wrote:What if Kim and Russiangate are a agent of distraction?

Russiagate is for sure.
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