Contradictory America - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Nox
#91024
Disenfranchised wrote:Nox I am an American and I think GWB is a traitor!


I already knew that.

I do not agree ... YOU already knew that.

Nox
By Disenfranchised
#91026
Nox wrote:
Disenfranchised wrote:Nox I am an American and I think GWB is a traitor!


I already knew that.

I do not agree ... YOU already knew that.

Nox
yes and I like your sig! Good job. :)
By Nox
#91039
Disenfranchised wrote:I like your sig! Good job. :)


I REFUSE to take credit for the SUPERIOR job that Proctor did. Blame Proctor ... not me. :)

Nox
By JustinGilmore
#91570
Boogaleeboo wrote:
Ahhh...but I think you are assuming that your nation's leaders make decisions that are based on logic and evidence, and that they are generally rational and intelligent human beings.


No, just money.


You are right. Though I don't think that money should be the deciding factor with many affairs. However it is, hopefully this is something we could change one day. (Probably not though)

You non-Americans can criticize OUR President ... and you feel that WE should do something about it. However, I seem to recall that the PM you folks up north had before the current one ... did a bunch of stuff that the USofA didn't particularly care for ... THAT DIDN'T BOTHER YOU. I also seem to recall the same of the French, Germans, and Russians. THEY DIDN'T CARE EITHER. So why should WE give a HOOT about you not liking what we do.

*the word hypocricy rings in Nox's ear*


In many ways you are right. However when's the last time you heard any other countrys forin politics affecting the unitedstates? I've never really heard of such thing. The only recent affairs which have effected the US were from extreme fundamentalist groups. Basically the United States can do whatever they please to any countries, however the other counties don't affect the united states. Saying that we're allowed to do it, but others cannot-That's hypocrisy.
By Nox
#91618
JustinGilmore wrote:However when's the last time you heard any other countrys forin politics affecting the unitedstates?


First off ... it is spelled: United States. Capital letters are our friend ... so is the space bar.

Second ... without thinking too hard about it ... French missiles with 2003 serial numbers in Iraq comes to mind ... Iranian counterfeit $100 bills ... NK missile exports ... Pakistani aid for nuke bomb development ... there are plenty of others ... these should do for now.

Nox
User avatar
By The American Lion
#91718
Disenfranchised wrote:Nox I am an American and I think GWB is a traitor!


Well I think your a trator by letting Dictators stay in power. Remember if your werent for the war you support Saddam.
By fastspawn
#91812
The Republican Party wrote:
Disenfranchised wrote:Nox I am an American and I think GWB is a traitor!


Well I think your a trator by letting Dictators stay in power. Remember if your werent for the war you support Saddam.


Oh come on TRP, that is what GWB would say.

Why can't someone be a peace-loving anti-Dictatorship person?
There are other ways to free the Iraqi People apart from war, which should only be as a last resort.

The very statement which GWB made that ,"You are either for us or against us" is precisely the statement that lowered his public opinion worldwide.

Anyway, even you would admit that Nations act in self-interest, and i wouldn't say Bush's acts of removing Saddam was motivated purely by benevolent feelings to the iraqi people. Why should people support another person's selfish desires for fear of being labelled a traitor or pro-saddam?
By Disenfranchised
#91883
The Republican Party wrote:
Disenfranchised wrote:Nox I am an American and I think GWB is a traitor!


Well I think your a trator by letting Dictators stay in power. Remember if your werent for the war you support Saddam.
Your all of twenty of age. I'm probably ten years the senior of your father. I won't criticize him for failing to ethier educate or discipline you as to knowledge spelling and respect due to veterans. I wish that within your accusations you would admit that alot of my freinds died, I don't care about the metal still in my body or the gimp that will follow me to the grave. http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_07_1AirCav.html I only ask that you service in combat before you ever post again.
By Mr.Hedgehog
#93333
The U.S wouldn't be able to win a war against China not to mention the whole world combined.
By NewEdition_83
#122982
How do you know? China might have the population, but not the advance technology the US has. I believe the US would win a war against China. It is all about technology not population.
User avatar
By Comrade Ogilvy
#123032
It is all about technology not population.


It's all about training and discipline, not technology. Technology is secondary to the ability of the soldier using the equipment. China has pretty crappy soldiers, all things being equal.

So much so that you know what they made a big press to do?

Equip and train some of their soldiers like US troops. It costs a lot more, and takes a lot more time though. They are training about 100,000 now.

Training, not have. They can't afford to do it for their whole force though.

That's train them the way we train our soldiers now. Because their method is inferior.

THAT should tell you something. It doesn't matter if you have a million more men if your enemy is killing you 50 to 1.

In any non-nuclear combat with China, China loses.
By NewEdition_83
#123282
Your right to use technologiy you need intellect. My mistake, what good would it do if you have technology, but you do not know how to decipher it.
By fastspawn
#123297
BobSally wrote:
It is all about technology not population.


It's all about training and discipline, not technology. Technology is secondary to the ability of the soldier using the equipment. China has pretty crappy soldiers, all things being equal.

So much so that you know what they made a big press to do?

Equip and train some of their soldiers like US troops. It costs a lot more, and takes a lot more time though. They are training about 100,000 now.

Training, not have. They can't afford to do it for their whole force though.

That's train them the way we train our soldiers now. Because their method is inferior.

THAT should tell you something. It doesn't matter if you have a million more men if your enemy is killing you 50 to 1.

In any non-nuclear combat with China, China loses.


gee firsthand knowledge of the PLA do you? have u seen their training video? well i was pretty impressed when in their FIBUA (i think u guys call it CQ) they jumped out of 3 storys into the grass verge.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#123550
What America does internally is not the affair of the rest of the world. However, what Iraq does internally is also not the affair of the rest of the world. In both cases, the world should only intervene if certain behaviour of that nation state contaminates or endangers the rest of the world.
This was not the case in Iraq. But it is the case with America. Whether it's America's acid rain killing Canadian maple trees, American industrial runoff contaminating Mexican drinking water, American global warming destroying farms in Bangladesh, or American corporations with the CIA picking off non-capitalists in the Third World, the rest of the world is being violated.
America had never protected Canada from anything. We were never attacked by Iran, Chile, Vietnam, Grenada, El Salvador, Columbia, Iraq or any other poor helpless victim of American foreign policy. Other non-superpowers limit their foreign policies to trade and cooperation. America's foreign policy is tyranny, and as murderous as any tyranny in the past. It will not endure. Your own citizens will turn on their Dear Leaders. And sooner than later.
User avatar
By Comrade Ogilvy
#123908
well i was pretty impressed when in their FIBUA (i think u guys call it CQ) they jumped out of 3 storys into the grass verge.


.....you do know as far as practical military applications go that is fucking useless?

"Quick Lee, they have moved their mortars into position! WE WILL JUMP OUT THE THIRD STORY WINDOW TO VICTORY!!!"

Oh, my source?

The PLA. They haven't really made a secret of it.

Your own citizens will turn


No, they will vote the other party into office and get an entirely new set of assholes oppressing a different lot of people for 4 years.
User avatar
By Todd D.
#123966
QatzelOk wrote:America had never protected Canada from anything. We were never attacked by Iran, Chile, Vietnam, Grenada, El Salvador, Columbia, Iraq or any other poor helpless victim of American foreign policy.

I'm sorry, were you guys not involved in WW2? I'll bet your boys were pretty damn happy when we jumped in the fight, because all of the sudden not only was your big brother watching your back, but they had a vested interest in keeping your wintry asses secure. Don't give me this shit that America has never protected Canada, because that is quite simply untrue. I dare say that the mere precense of America so close to you acts as a deterrant against parties that would otherwise be very willing, and let's face it, quite able, to destroy the great white north.
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#124059
Like who? Who exactly is trying to take over Canada? The only country that's ever attacked Canada was the US. Hey, we're all over that one. We all know attacking Canada was nothing personal. It's just what America does. But when has the US ever defended Canada? Never. It never will. World War 2 was not about Canada. We were there as British subjects helping England retain control of the world instead of the Nazis. And it was a successful war. How many million died? But America just replaced Germany, and the Third World became the new non-Aryans for an equally racist America. And Palestinians became the victims of European jews who colonized Israel. In other words, WW2 killed millions and left us with the same shit and worse. The Cold War was indicitative of America's total addiction to wars of economic predation. And Iraq and Haiti and Afghanistan are the worst kind of predation.
User avatar
By Boondock Saint
#124088
Holy hell ...

From the point of view of one of America's allies such as Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom etc., how can we be sure that if we support the USA in every endeavour that it chooses to undertake, it will not someday bully us as it bullies other nations in the world?


You dont know. In fact I would say the US eventually WILL bully Europe. The only hope that Europe has is to unify under one banner (whichever those folks choose) and portray themselves as STRONG. The reason I say STRONG is because the US could never invade and HOLD Europe, not even the UK (thats not a shot at the people of the UK I am saying this because of the geographical isolation of the UK).

The people would rebel and resist, it would not be possible for the US to hold Europe, we can hardly maintane peace in Iraq and I honestly believe a European resistance would be more capable then the Iraqi resistance (geography and wealth being the factor, not race or religion). European resistance could continue to back up and up into the east of Europe and if needed into Russia ... Americas arm is hardly long enough to conquer and hold all of Europe let alone Russia.

Now ... while the US is attempting to invade Europe how will it deal with Canada, Mexico and South America? All of the landlocked (practically speaking) with the US? I think the Airforce would be hard pressed to stop that invasion and since all of our crack troops are in Europe that means the National Guard and Draftees would be left to defend the homeland from land invasions to the north and south.

Thats great! The navy can help right? Well ... the navy is pretty busy aiding the European invasion and preventing the Asian Pacific fleet from invading ... so no ...

Now ... where does the US get all the oil for this war? Certainly the US wont be holding Iraq ... and no shipping lanes will be open for US ships ...

Attrition. The word is Attrition.

The world doesnt need to win they just need to hold out long enough for the US the starve to death.

Oh and the US could NOT invade and hold China, even if it was one on one. No way.

So who would 'win' depends on the objectives of each side ...
User avatar
By Comrade Ogilvy
#124132
think the Airforce would be hard pressed to stop that invasion


We could destroy all of Mexico and Canada in about 2 months. With conventional weapons. All of it. They have nothing that could stop us. No anti-air, no anti-ANYTHING. The military on the boarder is just SLIGHTLY different than what we have on the boarder now now. Constant unmanned drones flying across 24/7, Navy destroyers in the Gulf of Mexico. Tanks rolling through Alberta.

Canada and Mexico just haven't thought about anti-air concerns. They live near America, why bother?

Now ... where does the US get all the oil for this war? Certainly the US wont be holding Iraq ... and no shipping lanes will be open for US ships ...


Alaska could be mined dry. It wouldn't last long, for a few years of total production, but it'd last. Then Canada. Which would last a few more years.

Oh and the US could NOT invade and hold China, even if it was one on one. No way.


Why?

Becauase you said so? They have crappy force application abilities. They have nukes. That's it. It's like Russia. Russia is a third world country with nukes, so it thinks it still matters. Russia doesn't have the ability to keep it's planes in the air. Russia is designing some great planes that it'll never make because it doesn't have the money to put them into production.

You don't get it. We made the world what it is. We COULD take Fortress Europea. Who'd stop us? You have to understand that we haven't fought a "total war" in a long time. In any example you are talking of the old playbook goes out the window and we take out the REALLY old playbook. The one Rome used on Carthage. We've been fighting cavemen, we've had the ability to be magmonious.

You have to understand we still train to be vicious, and we still buy the best toys we can make. Even though it's a matter of outclassing the people we fight by 4 generations. Because there is Europe and China. And we might have to fight them some day. So you prepare.

The world doesnt need to win they just need to hold out long enough for the US the starve to death.


We have enough ariable land to feed all of Mexico and Canada in addition to ourselves with no effort involved. You live in God's country, blessed with an abundance of natural resources.

It's one of many things you don't know. For instance:

Thats great! The navy can help right? Well ... the navy is pretty busy aiding the European invasion and preventing the Asian Pacific fleet from invading ... so no ...


China and Europe don't HAVE Navies. The Peace Corp could invade Spain by boat. Send half our forces to the Pacific, a fourth to Europe, and a fourth at home and guess what? You've just outclassed and outnumbered all opposition.

Aren't you glad your government spends so much money on "Defense" now?

Americas arm is hardly long enough to conquer and hold all of Europe let alone Russia.


About 1.3 million people, extremely well trained and armed, facing resistance that was so traumatised by their last great war that they refuse to deal with the issue again?

As for Russia? What do you think the happy Chech brothers will do when they see a Russia attacked by America? Calm down, or increase attacks?
Do you think that'll make them a smaller force, or a larger one?

You have this funny idea it'd be everyone against us. So very, very not true.

With that being said the odds of having to deal with all comers at once is as insane as us fighting them in the first place.

Hopefully that last line will actually get read and understood, and not glossed over.
User avatar
By Boondock Saint
#124134
With that being said the odds of having to deal with all comers at once is as insane as us fighting them in the first place.


I guess I just agree with this line while not agreeing with the above stuff and really just put an end to this silly little debate that has no basis in reality anyway ...

Aren't you glad your government spends so much money on "defence" now?


What do you mean now? I think the US should up military spending. I just dont like WHERE and HOW the spending has taken place.

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