[Davea8]

BobSally: That's what I WANT them to do with the tax money.

Davea8: Yup. I figured. Then that would mean that if Hitler had only not massacred Jews or any race or nationality, he would be your hero. You're right about one thing: OBVIOUSLY you are young.




Pw: "Well, obviously being a lefty you would never think about cutting taxes. That would be just immoral to you. But thats what would be done."

Davea8: You're dreaming. You obviously haven't considered that that bankrupting the nation would also bankrupt a huge percentage of Americans and throw the rest into poverty. Now what do you think will be the outcome of that, -peace on earth and good will toward men?? And when 10% and more of the public begins a random, violent, criminal reaction, where do you think the money will go? Are you so naive as to imagine the Bush Administration is not thinking about that? And what will happen to our "right" to write dissenting letters to our editors, not to mention protest PEACEFULLY!





Milky: "wow... Bush must be magical if he plans to do all that in a mere 4 years."

Davea8: Who said 4 years? That's ridiculous. Obviously he's just setting up the groundwork so that (he hopes) it will be irreversable and the next Repub Prez will continue it.


Tell you what -wait and see. I thought it was crazy to think the American people would elect him. Now you think it's crazy to think he will do this. Wait and see.

Ooops! My mistake: the public DIDN'T elect him.

[Comrade Ogilvy]

Then that would mean that if Hitler had only not massacred Jews or any race or nationality, he would be your hero.

Of course, because you live in fucking whacko 14 year old land where not being a nice person means you are a nazi.

Welcome to the real world where adults know two things:

I don't have time for your shit.

"Nazi" means national socialist.

And given a choice between people who hide behind the ideal of helping the masses or not giving a shit I'm picking apathy every time.

It's idealists that destroy, not conservatives.

[Todd D.]

Bush is the reason why the association for the american dream said this american generation 15-23 year olds will not surpass their parents in living quality ect and quality of life for the first time ever. Look it up neo cons if you want BUT BUSH SUCKS HANDS DOWN! we all agree except for a few ignorant ear plugged conservative pricks..... heh oh well cant get the whole world to listen.

Grammar, Periods, Sentences. PLEASE!

As for your points, they aren't there. There is no way of telling i the coming generation will pass the current one in living standards, NO WAY. Market fluctuations and wise investments could very easily swing the other way and turn the tide to the other ones. 50 percent of America says that Bush doesn't suck, I don't think that you can call that a "few conservative pricks". That's ok though, because fucktards usually don't need sources, they usually just run on emotion.

Bobsally, your post pretty much sums up my ideas of Dave. Kudos.

[shenanigans]

yeh, I'd say with half the country leaning one way, and half the other (with a tiny fraction on the Nader train) you all are screwed.



no bush is bad.
no, clinton is bad.
NO... BUSH is bad.
NO... Kerry is bad.

blah blah blah...

when you've got a 50 50 split... that says one thing. nobody is right... nobody is wrong... everyone's just in the opinion of their experiences in the midst of the administration.

every president has their shitty points. war aint new. and Lincoln, you know that really cool dude... Lincoln, he didn't win by the popular vote, in fact, he wasn't even on the southern ballots.



I'm not a Bush supporter, I don't agree with him on a personal level on many issues that are very important (to me)... but at least have the crass to attack him on things of relevance not heresay that's not really provable, but with biased graphs and junked up conclusions.

[Davea8]

Bobbygirl, tell your mommy she failed at raising you. She should have married a man who could beat the shit out of you for your tongue. The funny part is that you think you have something to offer that justifies posting. Your language and attitude shows that it is a serious case of projection when you accuse another of thinking and acting like a 14-year old. I'd tell you to grow up but I don't think there's much hope for you.

[Todd D.]

What the fuck is your malfunction little boy. You are the new kid on the block here, not Bob. You may have joined before him, but he certainly has had more of a contribution to the forum recently than you have, seeing that I can't remember any real influx of posts from you before 2 weeks ago. Now you want to roll on in here and tell him that HE is the one being immature? Fuck that shit. You have done nothing but post irrational, immature rants from partisan propoganda machines boiling down to sour grapes because your guy didn't win the election.

Bob made good points in his post, and he was responding to ridiculous assertions that you yourself made. His points were actually relevant to what you said, and he basically put you in your place.

[Goranhammer]

Where were you 3 weeks ago Todd?



I just ignore Davea8 now. If you find me one thread he's created that doesn't contain the word "Bush", I'll give you a million bucks.

Offer expires in 20 seconds.

[QatzelOk]

Dave, don't take it personally. Bob thought I was 12 until I quoted a few Billy Joel songs.
But listen American friends, here in Canada we've always had a mixed economy, part socialist, part capitalist. And it works. The socialist companies [crown corporations] keep the private ones honest, and the private ones [capitalism] keeps the socialist ones efficient. There is nothing inherently more efficient in capitalism than in socialism. They are both managed by human beings. However, socialist companies have a social mandate, while capitalist ones do not. Without a social mandate or a strong regulatory environment, corporations spiral out of control into corrupt little fiefdoms, attacking competition instead of just competing, and trampling on people's rights in order to make more money. Capitalism all over the world is failing right now because of this. It's time to move on.
The Soviet Union sank because of the inefficiency of pure socialism, and the corruption that this total power gave its leaders. America is sinking because the dishonesty and corruption of pure corporate rule is environmentally destructive, anti-democratic, and inevitably inefficient because of this deterioration. And becoming as corrupt and stupid as the last Soviet years of Brezhnev. Every modern state has woken up to this in the last 2 decades. Except a few, well-armed exceptions. Must I name them?
Americans are socialism-aphobic because of a long, sustained propoganda campaign that, as a Canadian, I was exposed to in an indirect way through American TV. Everyone nice is middle class on TV, and every problem can be solved by buying something. 'Brought to you by" isn't just a catchy slogan. It tells you who controls the content of your media. Car ads in newspapers, Exxon ads on TV. This is who informs you about what's happening in the world around you.
I don't blame the American people. But, the same way that Hamas and Al Qaeda are, apparently, headquartered in the Middle East, corporate world slaughterhouse is HQed in America. See the similarities?

[Todd D.]

But listen American friends, here in Canada we've always had a mixed economy, part socialist, part capitalist. And it works.

HA! A few quotes from one of my favorite sites:
"The Canadian rate of productivity, which is directly connected to the standard of living in a nation, continues to slow, particularly in comparison to the United States. The high Canadian tax rate discourages business growth and investment and our high level of debt (which owes great thanks to Trudeau’s massive expansion of social services in 1970’s) has contributed to the low value of the Canadian dollar."

"Canadian law has given labour unions the right to force people to join as a condition of employment, in violation of the right to freedom of association."

"The chief executive of one of Canada’s top high-tech companies said it best when he said, “we sure have not created an economic climate to keep our top talent ... and wealth creators here for the coming century” (John Roth, CEO of Nortel). The low value of the Canadian dollar, the ability of American companies to adequately pay for highly-skilled workers, and the high rate of taxation has led to a “brain drain.” As Roth said, “the top marginal tax rate in the United States just moved from $283,000 to $285,000. Canada's top rate starts at $65,000 Canadian, or $42,000 U.S. So in Canada, you are wealthy at $42,000 U.S. In America, you're wealthy at $285,000 U.S."

Americans are socialism-aphobic because of a long, sustained propoganda campaign that, as a Canadian, I was exposed to in an indirect way through American TV.

I'm socialism-aphobic because I view it as an innefficient system that legalizes immoral and counterproductive economic practices that end up crippling an economy. Every study of economic theory shows that government regulation MUST lead to economic innefficiency, and every study of morals and ethics shows that coercion and threat of force to influence discriminatory practices is immoral. Socialism advocates both of these things, to which I find dispicable.

Your so called 'mixed-economy' is little more than the reforms made in Russia under Gorbechov. It doesn't work, because Capitalism is inherantly crippled under a socialistic form of government. The two are mututally exclusive.

[QatzelOk]

Can I give you a nice definition of 'productivity' as regards GDP? Americans work more hours, and are no better off. 60 hour work weeks are more 'productive' than 40 hour work weeks, which are in turn more 'productive' that 4 day work weeks.
Slaves were the most productive group of all, dollar for dollar.
Why should we even be trying to grow our economy? Don't we already have enough crap? Productivity is another word for lobotomized consumers. Had enough yet?
More more more
How do you like it? How do you like it?
More more more.
How do you like your love?
- Andrea True Connection

[clownboy]

Can I give you a nice definition of 'productivity' as regards GDP? Americans work more hours, and are no better off. 60 hour work weeks are more 'productive' than 40 hour work weeks, which are in turn more 'productive' that 4 day work weeks.
Slaves were the most productive group of all, dollar for dollar.
Why should we even be trying to grow our economy? Don't we already have enough crap? Productivity is another word for lobotomized consumers. Had enough yet?

Here ya go.

To quote Tonto, "what WE white man?". You Canadians may indeed have enough crap, we here in the US obviously feel the need for more. As I've said in other threads, you Canadians go right ahead and stop buying stuff - let us know how it works out for you.

[Todd D.]

Can I give you a nice definition of 'productivity' as regards GDP? Americans work more hours, and are no better off.

Bullshit, I would much rather live in the United States than in Canada, thus I am better off here. Americans on average work more hours, thus they are more productive. Anything else you conclude from that is a logistical leap that you are not prepared to make.

60 hour work weeks are more 'productive' than 40 hour work weeks, which are in turn more 'productive' that 4 day work weeks.
Slaves were the most productive group of all, dollar for dollar.

Very good slight of hand there, comparing American workers to slaves to appeal to emotions. Instead I choose to listen to logic and facts. If you are working per hour, then more hours means that you will make more money. If you are salaried, then you are paid to get the job done, regardless of how long it takes. If you spend time to get the job done, you are viewed as a model employee, and you make more money. Either way, you are better off for being more productive. If you choose to work less, than you must accept the responsibility that comes with being a less productive employee, along with the benefits.

Why should we even be trying to grow our economy? Don't we already have enough crap? Productivity is another word for lobotomized consumers. Had enough yet?

What the fuck? Are you honestly suggesting that we all just stop working, or just work at the same level? That's pretty close to the dumbest thing that I have ever heard. Yeah we totally should not grow the economy, we have enough stuff, I'm sure those unemployed people would completely agree with you.

[QatzelOk]

Unemployment can be eradicated by redistribution of what's already being produced. We do have enough crap. Too much crap. Global warming mean anything to you? Burn out? Resource depletion?
And as for time... How can a civilized people explain why they work so many hours when they already have too much stuff? What are you working for? Because you hate spending time with family and friends? Because you have no life outside of work? Because you are afraid of being fired? Because you have no inner dialogue, no desire to reflect on life and what it is for?
Because you feel inadequate compared to your neighbours? Your SUV isn't the biggest on the block?
Is that worth dying for? Is that worth killing for? Is that worth killing all life on the planet for?
This brand of ignorant capitalism looks more like Jonestown everyday.
But I will not be drinking the kool-aid, thank you very much.

[Todd D.]

Unemployment can be eradicated by redistribution of what's already being produced. We do have enough crap. Too much crap.

That's your opinion. You think that you have too much crap, then don't buy more, but fuck you for thinking you know me and trying to tell me that I have too much crap. Nobody has a right to tell somebody that they have too much except for the person themselves. It's called freedom.

How can a civilized people explain why they work so many hours when they already have too much stuff? What are you working for? Because you hate spending time with family and friends? Because you have no life outside of work? Because you are afraid of being fired? Because you have no inner dialogue, no desire to reflect on life and what it is for?
Because you feel inadequate compared to your neighbours? Your SUV isn't the biggest on the block?

Again, you build this on your own premise that you have too much stuff. Some people don't feel like they have too much stuff, and would like to have more. Who are you to tell them what they can and cannot do with their own money?

Is that worth dying for? Is that worth killing for? Is that worth killing all life on the planet for?
This brand of ignorant capitalism looks more like Jonestown everyday.
But I will not be drinking the kool-aid, thank you very much.

Ooooh, zing, you really got us there. Unfortunatly that analogy is completely irrelevant and I suspect you through it in there just to show us that you know a little bit of history. I don't know what your assinine apeal to our emotions was for, but as far as killing and dying for our possessions, that's quite a leap that I don't think anybody in this thread has made. Once again you are taking somebodies comment and stretching it to the breaking point of logic to prove your own opinion.

[smashthestate]

Unemployment can be eradicated by redistribution of what's already being produced.

Wrong, that will cause more unemployment. The only way unemployment can be erradicated is by a totalitarian government that has total control over the "planning" of the economy. Even then, every single time the planned economies fail horribly. Yes, there is near full employment for those willing to work, but that means nothing if the economy isn't healthy. Who cares if you have a job if you're living in poverty. I can be a bum and do that easy enough.

This brand of ignorant capitalism looks more like Jonestown everyday.

It sounds like you're just fed-up with the current state of human civilization. Maybe you should go live in the jungle and build yourself a teepee. Nothing is stopping you.

[QatzelOk]

You guys should really look into this whole Global Warming, environmental disaster thing. You can't eat, drink or breathe money.

[Goranhammer]

Let me go get my violin.

[QatzelOk]

Do! And maybe you could play the theme to FAME while the oceans flood all those lovely coastal cities all over the world so you can rant about the importance of 'choice' when it comes to resources. Nice to be able to 'choose' other countries to invade. What?

[Comrade Ogilvy]

What we can do is use our trillions of dollars to make a giant dome on the moon, move lots and lots of kelp, seawater and the like into half of it and live in splendor on the moon as the world goes to shit.

It's cheaper than trees, and it'll support fish for eating. I suppose we could take SOME animals, but it'd be easier to regulate the living conditions of sea creatures on the moon.

Science, answer to and cause of all man's problems.

[QatzelOk]

Bobby, my boy,
I can't believe you thought I was stoned.