[QatzelOk]

The book banning and the attacks against the enemies of the Right Wing Netanyahu government is part of taking down everyone that might criticize US government policy.

Dr. Gay had to be ready and not be that fragile...

So as an academic, she also had to be part James Bond and part Lawrence of Arabia?

Do all academics have to be all of these things? Because I would think that education should be protected from the machinations of the business world and the various mafias who dominate it through violence. Otherwise, as a society, we will be left with mixed martial arts and corporate propaganda as our oligarch-safe version of "Academia."

Most of this thread *so far* has been a limited hangout discussion of plagiarism... as if that is the main story here. Luckily for the thread, Philip Giraldi criticizes what the Lobby are doing to education in his latest article:

The Jewish/Israel lobby in America does not forgive and forget.

Witness the continuing attacks on America’s universities for not rolling over and purging all suspected antisemites among faculty and students. Liz Magill, the President of the University of Pennsylvania, resigned almost immediately after being interrogated by the US Congress and the multiple attacks began. Poor Claudine Gay, president of Harvard, hung on but eventually also resigned after she was subjected to near continuous harassment by Israel’s friends, including in the US Congress, because she, like her presidential colleagues, had not accepted that nearly all criticism of Israel in the context of Gaza is based on Jew-hatred, which she was apparently expected to assert...

...But perhaps the most insidious attempt to complete America’s falling under the control of Israel-think is what is taking place in lower-to-mid level public education. Many school districts and even state educational boards require courses in the horrors of antisemitism and the Admin Edit: Rule 1 Violation holocaust. The courses are, of course, being pushed most ardently by Jews and by select Evangelicals who are sitting around waiting for the Second Coming, a prophecy that involves in their minds the return of Jews to the Holy Land as a prerequisite. ...

Education? Scholarship? Academia?

[wat0n]

No, there are no examples of Ms. Gay committing plagiarism.

If you choose to ignore them that is.

You mentioned a report on this matter, where can I read it? Is this a report by a third-party source, as in not from anyone who may be subordinate to Harvard's President? Does it address the examples provided by Rufo?

You mean Kevin Bryan?

He dis not find plagiarism either. He just was unable to find the citation.

Which makes sense, since he is just a random right winger on the internet.

He's an academic, and runs a nice blog focused on academic economics. But it seems you're upset that people who are not conservative or overly political can agree with Rufo on this one.

Note that under Harvard's policy, students are expected to cite within the paragraph. Here's an example:

If you copy bits and pieces from a source (or several sources), changing a few words here and there without either adequately paraphrasing or quoting directly, the result is mosaic plagiarism. Even if you don't intend to copy the source, you may end up with this type of plagiarism as a result of careless note-taking and confusion over where your source's ideas end and your own ideas begin. You may think that you've paraphrased sufficiently or quoted relevant passages, but if you haven't taken careful notes along the way, or if you've cut and pasted from your sources, you can lose track of the boundaries between your own ideas and those of your sources. It's not enough to have good intentions and to cite some of the material you use. You are responsible for making clear distinctions between your ideas and the ideas of the scholars who have informed your work. If you keep track of the ideas that come from your sources and have a clear understanding of how your own ideas differ from those ideas, and you follow the correct citation style, you will avoid mosaic plagiarism.

Example

Source #1

Indeed, of the more than 3500 hours of instruction during medical school, an average of less than 60 hours are devoted to all of bioethics, health law and health economics combined. Most of the instruction is during the preclinical courses, leaving very little instructional time when students are experiencing bioethical or legal challenges during their hands-on, clinical training. More than 60 percent of the instructors in bioethics, health law, and health economics have not published since 1990 on the topic they are teaching.

--Persad, G.C., Elder, L., Sedig,L., Flores, L., & Emanuel, E. (2008). The current state of medical school education in bioethics, health law, and health economics. Journal of Law, Medicine, and Ethics 36, 89-94.

Source #2

Students can absorb the educational messages in medical dramas when they view them for entertainment. In fact, even though they were not created specifically for education, these programs can be seen as an entertainment-education tool [43, 44]. In entertainment-education shows, viewers are exposed to educational content in entertainment contexts, using visual language that is easy to understand and triggers emotional engagement [45]. The enhanced emotional engagement and cognitive development [5] and moral imagination make students more sensitive to training [22].

--Cambra-Badii, I., Moyano, E., Ortega, I., Josep-E Baños, & Sentí, M. (2021). TV medical dramas: Health sciences students’ viewing habits and potential for teaching issues related to bioethics and professionalism. BMC Medical Education, 21, 1-11. doi:https://doi.org/10.1186/s12909-021-02947-7

Plagiarized version

Paragraph #1.

All of the ideas in this paragraph after the first sentence are drawn directly from Persad. But because the student has placed the citation mid-paragraph, the final two sentences wrongly appear to be the student’s own idea:

In order to advocate for the use of medical television shows in the medical education system, it is also important to look at the current bioethical curriculum. In the more than 3500 hours of training that students undergo in medical school, only about 60 hours are focused on bioethics, health law, and health economics (Persad et al, 2008). It is also problematic that students receive this training before they actually have spent time treating patients in the clinical setting. Most of these hours are taught by instructors without current publications in the field.

Paragraph #2.

All of the italicized ideas in this paragraph are either paraphrased or taken verbatim from Cambra-Badii, et al., but the student does not cite the source at all. As a result, readers will assume that the student has come up with these ideas himself:

Students can absorb the educational messages in medical dramas when they view them for entertainment. It doesn’t matter if the shows were designed for medical students; they can still be a tool for education. In these hybrid entertainment-education shows, viewers are exposed to educational content that triggers an emotional reaction. By allowing for this emotional, cognitive, and moral engagement, the shows make students more sensitive to training. There may be further applications to this type of education: the role of entertainment as a way of encouraging students to consider ethical situations could be extended to other professions, including law or even education.

The student has come up with the final idea in the paragraph (that this type of ethical training could apply to other professions), but because nothing in the paragraph is cited, it reads as if it is part of a whole paragraph of his own ideas, rather than the point that he is building to after using the ideas from the article without crediting the authors.

Acceptable version

In the first paragraph, the student uses signal phrases in nearly every sentence to reference the authors (“According to Persad et al.,” “As the researchers argue,” “They also note”), which makes it clear throughout the paragraph that all of the paragraph’s information has been drawn from Persad et al. The student also uses a clear APA in-text citation to point the reader to the original article. In the second paragraph, the student paraphrases and cites the source’s ideas and creates a clear boundary behind those ideas and his own, which appear in the final paragraph.

In order to advocate for the use of medical television shows in the medical education system, it is also important to look at the current bioethical curriculum. According to Persad et al. (2008), only about one percent of teaching time throughout the four years of medical school is spent on ethics. As the researchers argue, this presents a problem because the students are being taught about ethical issues before they have a chance to experience those issues themselves. They also note that more than sixty percent of instructors teaching bioethics to medical students have no recent publications in the subject.

The research suggests that medical dramas may be a promising source for discussions of medical ethics. Cambra-Badii et al. (2021) explain that even when watched for entertainment, medical shows can help viewers engage emotionally with the characters and may prime them to be more receptive to training in medical ethics. There may be further applications to this type of education: the role of entertainment as a way of encouraging students to consider ethical situations could be extended to other professions, including law or even education.

….you do not deny your unquestioning support for Rufo and his far right wing propaganda.

Why does Rufo trigger you so much? This seems pathological, although so is supporting Hamas because "settler colonialism" and other racist dog whistles.

Those plagiarism policies are pretty much meaningless beyond a certain academic level, as I suggested earlier. Those policies are designed to provide a means of disciplining undergraduate students who just copy-past walls of text from Wikipedia or whatnot instead of writing a proper undergraduate essay. Undergraduates are not expected to make an original contribution to their field of study, so just lifting blocks of text without attribution, probably without understanding what that text even means, is much more serious. At PhD level or beyond, the whole concept of ‘plagiarism’, in terms of lifting text, is pretty much meaningless. Other things matter much more.

It's a big deal for Harvard's students so it is natural for this to be a big deal for its President.

How can Harvard expect to enforce its policies if the President is allowed to violate them?

[Potemkin]

It's a big deal for Harvard's students so it is natural for this to be a big deal for its President.

How can Harvard expect to enforce its policies if the President is allowed to violate them?

That is not the motivation behind the accusations of ‘plagiarism’ - the implication is that Claudine Gay plagiarised her PhD thesis, and therefore has no right to hold a PhD. In fact, all they have found is that she did not properly reference a few sentences in her thesis. As I pointed out, her thesis was peer-reviewed by experts in her field, and she was awarded her doctorate. If she had not made an original contribution to her field, those experts would have known it. The accusation of ‘plagiarism’ is not being made in good faith. It is clearly politically motivated.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you choose to ignore them that is.

You mentioned a report on this matter, where can I read it? Is this a report by a third-party source, as in not from anyone who may be subordinate to Harvard's President? Does it address the examples provided by Rufo?



He's an academic, and runs a nice blog focused on academic economics. But it seems you're upset that people who are not conservative or overly political can agree with Rufo on this one.

Note that under Harvard's policy, students are expected to cite within the paragraph. Here's an example:





Why does Rufo trigger you so much? This seems pathological, although so is supporting Hamas because "settler colonialism" and other racist dog whistles.



It's a big deal for Harvard's students so it is natural for this to be a big deal for its President.

How can Harvard expect to enforce its policies if the President is allowed to violate them?

Still no actual example of plagiarism.

One of the examples used by Rufo was some text she supposedly plagiarized from Prof. Gary King.

Prof. King was her thesis advisor. Unless Rufo thinks Prof. King is so stupid as to not be able to recognize his own writing in his student’s work, Rufo is being dishonest.

[wat0n]

@Potemkin it doesn't matter, she lost authority to enforce Harvard's plagiarism policy. Her PhD dissertation may not be retracted, and probably shouldn't be, but she definitely can't remain President.

The book banning and the attacks against the enemies of the Right Wing Netanyahu government is part of taking down everyone that might criticize US government policy.

Dr. Gay had to be ready and not be that fragile. But, it takes a lifetime of being in politics to understand what kind of attacks to expect.

My mother had political experience for many decades. You can't be naive with that shit. You will be cracking under the pressure if you do.

Claudine Gay was explicitly supported by Harvard's Board after her Congressional testimony. This isn't what brought her down.

It is also not about race or gender.

White Male Robert Carlsen, President of the University of South Carolina until 2021, was forced to resign after plagiarizing a commencement speech (not even a paper!).

White Male Marc Tessier-Lavigne, President of Stanford University until 2023, was forced to resign after it was found employees of his lab fabricated data that was used in some of his papers (this is way more serious than anything Claudine Gay did, but he was not personally involved in it - his employees were).

Why should Claudine Gay get special treatment?

Still no actual example of plagiarism.

One of the examples used by Rufo was some text she supposedly plagiarized from Prof. Gary King.

Prof. King was her thesis advisor. Unless Rufo thinks Prof. King is so stupid as to not be able to recognize his own writing in his student’s work, Rufo is being dishonest.

How does letting it slide help your claims? And how does it disprove the other examples?

Again, why does Chris Rufo trigger you so much? Should I start citing him more often?

[Pants-of-dog]

How does letting it slide help your claims?

Your use of pronouns has always made your posts unclear.

Are you saying that Prof. King deliberately allowed Ms. Gay to copy his work and looked the other way?

If so, that is a far more serious accusation than mere plagiarism.

And how does it disprove the other examples?

It shows dishonesty on the part of the accuser.

[wat0n]

Your use of pronouns has always made your posts unclear.

Are you saying that Prof. King deliberately allowed Ms. Gay to copy his work and looked the other way?

If so, that is a far more serious accusation than mere plagiarism.

If she didn't cite him, it is plagiarism under Harvard's policy. No, informal permission isn't enough. The citation is necessary.

Also, you seem to be unaware of the multiple flaws in peer review. Not catching plagiarism is actually minutiae as @Potemkin suggests - reviewers often fail to catch much worse stuff, and often because they can't catch this worse stuff (they can't independently reproduce results).

It shows dishonesty on the part of the accuser.

How so? Like it or not, he's sharing examples of papers that are accessible, at least within academic circles and Gay's field. It is not impossible to disprove him.

At least the example I posted, from a different source who is an actual academic and not a journalist like Rufo, does fall within Harvard's definition of plagiarism - mosaic plagiarism in this case. It would have been much safer to just write the paragraph in question differently.

[Pants-of-dog]

If she didn't cite him, it is plagiarism under Harvard's policy. No, informal permission isn't enough. The citation is necessary.

Then Rufo or you or this Kevin guy needs to show that Ms. Gay did not cite Prof. King’s book.

Also, you seem to be unaware of the multiple flaws in peer review. Not catching plagiarism is actually minutiae as @Potemkin suggests - reviewers often fail to catch much worse stuff, and often because they can't catch this worse stuff (they can't independently reproduce results).

So you are arguing that Prof. King is so stupid that he did not notice the entire appendix of Ms. Gay’s thesis was copied from his book; the book he used to teach her the methodology used in her thesis.

Since this is absurdly implausible, and since Prof. King also thinks it is absurd and incorrect, it is more logical to believe that Rufo is mistaken or dishonest.

How so?

Because if he knew Prof. King was Ms. Gay’s thesis advisor, then he would have realized how ridiculous his claim was. So, either he did not know that (and therefore does not have enough knowledge to make these arguments honestly) or he knew that and lied.

Like it or not, he's sharing examples of papers that are accessible, at least within academic circles and Gay's field. It is not impossible to disprove him.

At least the example I posted, from a different source who is an actual academic and not a journalist like Rufo, does fall within Harvard's definition of plagiarism - mosaic plagiarism in this case. It would have been much safer to just write the paragraph in question differently.

Then show that this example of “mosaic plagiarism” is actually plagiarism.

The last time I asked you this, we had arrived at the point where you admitted you do not know what Ms. Gay’s thesis is called.

Would you like help with that?

[wat0n]

Then Rufo or you or this Kevin guy needs to show that Ms. Gay did not cite Prof. King’s book.

Even if she did, she clearly did not cite Palmquist and Voss as any Harvard student is expected to (in the paragraph).

So you are arguing that Prof. King is so stupid that he did not notice the entire appendix of Ms. Gay’s thesis was copied from his book; the book he used to teach her the methodology used in her thesis.

Since this is absurdly implausible, and since Prof. King also thinks it is absurd and incorrect, it is more logical to believe that Rufo is mistaken or dishonest.

Maybe. Or maybe Prof. King doesn't mind.

Because if he knew Prof. King was Ms. Gay’s thesis advisor, then he would have realized how ridiculous his claim was. So, either he did not know that (and therefore does not have enough knowledge to make these arguments honestly) or he knew that and lied.

Why is it somehow necessary for the person being plagiarized to refuse to consent to not being cited for this plagiarism to count as such?

Then show that this example of “mosaic plagiarism” is actually plagiarism.

Simple, she did not quote Palmquist and Voss in the paragraph, and did not put verbatim text in quotation marks.

The last time I asked you this, we had arrived at the point where you admitted you do not know what Ms. Gay’s thesis is called.

Would you like help with that?

Why don't you post it, along with Palmquist and Voss's paper?

I am more than willing to read it.

[Pants-of-dog]

Even if she did, she clearly did not cite Palmquist and Voss as any Harvard student is expected to (in the paragraph).

This is tiring. You keep repeating the same claim and keep refusing to support it.

At this point, you are either willfully refusing to do it or you do not know how to.

Maybe. Or maybe Prof. King doesn't mind.

Which is it?

Are you accusing him of being stupid or deceitful?

If you are willing to pivot from one to the other, I will assume you do not really believe either. In which case, this tangent can be dismissed.

Why is it somehow necessary for the person being plagiarized to refuse to consent to not being cited for this plagiarism to count as such?

Because they may have specific knowledge of how methodology needs to be described in their field eve Ms, Gay complied with those description criteria.

Simple, she did not quote Palmquist and Voss in the paragraph, and did not put verbatim text in quotation marks.

Why don't you post it, along with Palmquist and Voss's paper?

I am more than willing to read it.

So, you do need help with that.

Just ask Google what her thesis is called.

[wat0n]

This is tiring. You keep repeating the same claim and keep refusing to support it.

At this point, you are either willfully refusing to do it or you do not know how to.

I cited straight from Harvard's website on plagiarism. What's tiring is that you're unable to accept the facts.

Which is it?

Are you accusing him of being stupid or deceitful?

If you are willing to pivot from one to the other, I will assume you do not really believe either. In which case, this tangent can be dismissed.

Did she cite him or not? That's what matters here.

Because they may have specific knowledge of how methodology needs to be described in their field eve Ms, Gay complied with those description criteria.

How would this support not citing? The only case where it's acceptable is if it's a topic that is common knowledge. Specific knowledge must be cited.

So, you do need help with that.

Just ask Google what her thesis is called.

Why don't you post it?

[Pants-of-dog]

I cited straight from Harvard's website on plagiarism. What's tiring is that you're unable to accept the facts.

Did she cite him or not? That's what matters here.

How would this support not citing? The only case where it's acceptable is if it's a topic that is common knowledge. Specific knowledge must be cited.

Why don't you post it?

Because you do not ask nicely nor do you seem to be actually interested in the truth.

You simply want to believe that a Black woman should be fired based on the say so of a far right propagandist.

You do not read the report of the investigation.

You do not read the words of Prof. King.

You do not even know what her thesis was called or when it was written.

[wat0n]

Because you do not ask nicely nor do you seem to be actually interested in the truth.

You simply want to believe that a Black woman should be fired based on the say so of a far right propagandist.

You do not read the report of the investigation.

You do not read the words of Prof. King.

You do not even know what her thesis was called or when it was written.

Please post the report of the investigation. I already requested it, but you haven't.

And please explain how is it that the example I cited (shared by an actual academic, not just Rufo) complies with Harvard's policies.

And please share her thesis, since you claim to know so much about it. I will note she does not specify what her PhD dissertation was on in her CV.

At best, you could try to argue this wasn't plagiarism when Claudine Gay did her PhD. That could be a justification, and a good one at that. I don't know if it's easy to find Harvard's student handbook from the 1990s.

[Pants-of-dog]

How much credit do you think you deserve for Gay’s resignation?

I’ve learned that it never hurts to take the credit because sometimes people don’t give it to you. But this really was a team effort that involved three primary points of leverage. First was the narrative leverage, and this was done primarily by me, Christopher Brunet and Aaron Sibarium. Second was the financial leverage, which was led by Bill Ackman and other Harvard donors. And finally, there was the political leverage which was really led by Congresswoman Elise Stefanik’s masterful performance with Claudine Gay at her hearings.

When you put those three elements together — narrative, financial and political pressure — and you squeeze hard enough, you see the results that we got today, which was the resignation of America’s most powerful academic leader. I think that this result speaks for itself.

How closely have you been coordinating with the other people in those three camps?

I know all the players, I have varying degrees of coordination and communication, but —

What does that mean, “various degrees of communication and coordination?” Have you been actively working together?

Some people I speak to a little more frequently, some people a little less frequently. But my job as a journalist and even more so as an activist is to know the political conditions, to understand and develop relationships with all of the political actors, and then to work as hard as I can so that they’re successful in achieving their individual goals — but also to accomplish the shared goal, which was to topple the president of Harvard University.

On December 19, you tweeted that it was your plan to “smuggle [the plagiarism story] into the media apparatus from the left, which legitimizes the narrative to center-left actors who have the power to topple [Gay].” Can you explain that strategy in more detail?

It’s really a textbook example of successful conservative activism, and the strategy is quite simple. Christopher Brunet and I broke the story of Claudine’s plagiarism on December 10. It drove more than 100 million impressions on Twitter, and then it was the top story for a number of weeks in conservative media and right-wing media. But I knew that in order to achieve my objective, we had to get the narrative into the left-wing media. But the left-wing uniformly ignored the story for 10 days and tried to bury it, so I engaged in a kind of a thoughtful and substantive campaign of shaming and bullying my colleagues on the left to take seriously the story of the most significant academic corruption scandal in Harvard’s history.

Finally, the narrative broke through within 24 hours of my announcement about smuggling the narrative into the left-wing media. You see this domino effect: CNN, BBC, The New York Times, The Washington Post and other publications started to do the actual work of exposing Gay’s plagiarism, and then you see this beautiful kind of flowering of op-eds from all of those publications calling on Gay to resign. Once my position — which began on the right — became the dominant position across the center-left, I knew that it was just a matter of time before we were going to be successful.

Why is it so important to get the story into the center-left media?

It gives permission for center-left political figures and intellectual figures to comment on the story and then to editorialize on it. Once we crossed that threshold, we saw this cascade of publications calling on her to resign.

Do you think that playbook works on any issue, or do you think that the Israel-Palestine issue is unique, insofar as it’s already dividing elite liberal organizations?

I’ve run the same playbook on critical race theory, on gender ideology, on DEI bureaucracy. For the time being, given the structure of our institutions, this is a universal strategy that can be applied by the right to most issues. I think that we’ve demonstrated that it can be successful.

Why do you think you can be so open about your strategy and still have it work? Why don’t you feel like you need to be covert about it?

First, and most simply, because I’m telling the truth — and the truth has an inherent and innate power. I believe that if it’s propagated correctly, it has the power to defeat lies.

The reason that I announced my strategy in advance is both to demoralize my opponents — and it certainly does a good job at that — but also to teach my potential friends and allies how the game works. Machiavelli wrote The Prince not to teach people who already knew the principles of how power works, but to teach people who need to know — and in reality, the people who need to know about how politics works are American conservatives. So I tried to publicly narrate what I’m doing in order to teach my friends how to do it themselves. I think that this is a big service — with the added benefit that it demoralizes and deranges my enemies.

Do you think you understand how the left-wing influence ecosystem works better than the people inside it do?

Well, I spent 10 years directing documentaries for PBS, lived in large, left-wing American cities, and I’ve studied how the media, NGOs and universities circulate and legitimize information regimes. I’ve just applied that knowledge — and in some senses, I’ve stolen some of the earlier tactics from previous generations of the American left and weaponize them against the current regime.

What I’m doing is teaching conservatives how to hack that system and to use our asymmetrical disadvantages to our strategic advantage. We need to be very lightweight and very aggressive, and we need to be faster and smarter and rhetorically more sophisticated than our opponents — who, unfortunately for them, have grown complacent, lazy, entitled and ripe for disruption.

What is your broader objective here, beyond forcing the president of Harvard to resign?

My primary objective is to eliminate the DEI bureaucracy in every institution in America and to restore truth rather than racialist ideology as the guiding principle of America.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... n-00133618

Rufo does not care about plagiarism and is openly claiming that he is manipulating media in order to attack DEI and force a Black female academic to get fired.

[Unthinking Majority]

How does that prove Rufo is right?

It does not claim that the original paper is not cited.

It merely states that the citation is not provided "anywhere in pages around this".

There is the possibility that Rufo and Kevin Bryan are unfamiliar with whatever citation style used by Ms. Gay.

The one where you don't use quotes or indents or anything else to denote using someone else's writing word for word?

[Unthinking Majority]

Oh yes they are.

You can read them, with examples, here:

https://usingsources.fas.harvard.edu/wh ... agiarism-0

The example posted by Rufo is a case of mosaic plagiarism.

As for your last question, I find this rich from someone who justifies the largest massacre of Jews since WWII and is advocating impunity for its perpetrators - this is something you should be asking yourself.

She also used verbatim plagarism.

[Unthinking Majority]

No, there are no examples of Ms. Gay committing plagiarism.

Wrong: https://freebeacon.com/campus/harvard-p ... lagiarism/

[Unthinking Majority]

del

[Pants-of-dog]

The one where you don't use quotes or indents or anything else to denote using someone else's writing word for word?

There are some like that, yes.

And as pointed out earlier in the thread, the reviewers do not care about how well you rephrased someone else’s research. Even the people who were supposedly plagiarized by Ms. Gay do not care or see it as worthy of criticism.

Wrong: https://freebeacon.com/campus/harvard-p ... lagiarism/

From the source:

Canon, like several of the scholars Gay has quoted without attribution, insisted that she had done nothing wrong.

"I am not at all concerned about the passages," Canon told the Washington Free Beacon. "This isn't even close to an example of academic plagiarism."

Though Harvard's governing board, the Harvard Corporation, said in mid-December that it had reviewed Gay’s published oeuvre and found several cases of "inadequate citation," it did not identify any of the examples described in the new complaint, which was submitted to the school’s research integrity officer, Stacey Springs, and obtained by the Free Beacon.

Yes, there are lots of complaints of plagiarism.

There are no examples of plagiarism.

—————-

Rufo picks his targets well.

With CRA, he could attack any anti-racism policy because people do not understand what critical race theory is.

With his attack on trans people and gender expression, he could attack any anti-discrimination policy meant to support LGBTQ people because “the children”.

And he can pull this off because he knows no one is going to sit there and listen while some professor discusses how his methodology needs to be defined in a very specific manner (thereby explaining why it should not be considered plagiarism) because that crap is boring and even this sentence talking about it is too long for the average person.

[wat0n]

@Pants-of-dog the fact that Rufo has ulterior motives has no bearing on whether Gay committed plagiarism or not.

Yes, he has evident political goals. But if the reaction will be to look to the other side when there is a case of academic misconduct, then Rufo's point is being proven. Sometimes cutting your losses is the smartest way to go (something Hahvahd doesn't know to do).