Trump and Russiagate - Page 237 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Godstud
#15017209
Hindsite wrote:Allies have insulted the USA and President Trump too.
Really? Who?

Hindsite wrote:Treating other countries leaders with respect is called diplomacy, not sucking up.
It's sucking up when you only do it to Dictators. What you say counts, as well.
By Sivad
#15017219
Mueller Repeatedly Contradicts Himself & Undermines Russiagate


CrowdStrikeOut: Mueller’s Own Report Undercuts Its Core Russia-Meddling Claims

While the 448-page Mueller report found no conspiracy between Donald Trump's campaign and Russia, it offered voluminous details to support the sweeping conclusion that the Kremlin worked to secure Trump's victory. The report claims that the interference operation occurred "principally" on two fronts: Russian military intelligence officers hacked and leaked embarrassing Democratic Party documents, and a government-linked troll farm orchestrated a sophisticated and far-reaching social media campaign that denigrated Hillary Clinton and promoted Trump.

But a close examination of the report shows that none of those headline assertions are supported by the report’s evidence or other publicly available sources. They are further undercut by investigative shortcomings and the conflicts of interest of key players involved:

*The report uses qualified and vague language to describe key events, indicating that Mueller and his investigators do not actually know for certain whether Russian intelligence officers stole Democratic Party emails, or how those emails were transferred to WikiLeaks.

*The report's timeline of events appears to defy logic. According to its narrative, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange announced the publication of Democratic Party emails not only before he received the documents but before he even communicated with the source that provided them.

*There is strong reason to doubt Mueller’s suggestion that an alleged Russian cutout called Guccifer 2.0 supplied the stolen emails to Assange.

*Mueller’s decision not to interview Assange – a central figure who claims Russia was not behind the hack – suggests an unwillingness to explore avenues of evidence on fundamental questions.

*U.S. intelligence officials cannot make definitive conclusions about the hacking of the Democratic National Committee computer servers because they did not analyze those servers themselves. Instead, they relied on the forensics of CrowdStrike, a private contractor for the DNC that was not a neutral party, much as “Russian dossier” compiler Christopher Steele, also a DNC contractor, was not a neutral party. This puts two Democrat-hired contractors squarely behind underlying allegations in the affair – a key circumstance that Mueller ignores.

*Further, the government allowed CrowdStrike and the Democratic Party's legal counsel to submit redacted records, meaning CrowdStrike and not the government decided what could be revealed or not regarding evidence of hacking.

*Mueller’s report conspicuously does not allege that the Russian government carried out the social media campaign. Instead it blames, as Mueller said in his closing remarks, "a private Russian entity" known as the Internet Research Agency (IRA).

*Mueller also falls far short of proving that the Russian social campaign was sophisticated, or even more than minimally related to the 2016 election. As with the collusion and Russian hacking allegations, Democratic officials had a central and overlooked hand in generating the alarm about Russian social media activity.

*John Brennan, then director of the CIA, played a seminal and overlooked role in all facets of what became Mueller’s investigation: the suspicions that triggered the initial collusion probe; the allegations of Russian interference; and the intelligence assessment that purported to validate the interference allegations that Brennan himself helped generate. Yet Brennan has since revealed himself to be, like CrowdStrike and Steele, hardly a neutral party -- in fact a partisan with a deep animus toward Trump.

None of this means that the Mueller report's core finding of "sweeping and systematic" Russian government election interference is necessarily false. But his report does not present sufficient evidence to substantiate it. This shortcoming has gone overlooked in the partisan battle over two more highly charged aspects of Mueller's report: potential Trump-Russia collusion and Trump's potential obstruction of the resulting investigation. As Mueller prepares to testify before House committees later this month, the questions surrounding his claims of a far-reaching Russian influence campaign are no less important. They raise doubts about the genesis and perpetuation of Russiagate and the performance of those tasked with investigating it.

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... laims.html
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15017225
Godstud wrote:Really? Who?

Angela Merkel of Germany and the most recent incident from the British ambassador comes to mind.

Godstud wrote: It's sucking up when you only do it to Dictators. What you say counts, as well.

Do you consider the Queen of England a dictator?
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017242
Hindsite wrote:Angela Merkel of Germany and the most recent incident from the British ambassador comes to mind.
really? What did she do?

Hindsite wrote:Do you consider the Queen of England a dictator?
:roll: Don't be obtuse.

Putin, The Saudi Prince, KJU... all Dictators.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15017251
Godstud wrote:really? What did she do?

Here is on incident:
Angela Merkel Makes Swipe At President Trump At Harvard: ‘Tear Down Walls Of Ignorance’ | NBC News


German Chancellor Angela Merkel made a veiled swipe at President Trump during her commencement speech at Harvard University on Thursday. She took aim at trade issues and urged graduates to “tear down walls of ignorance and narrow mindedness.”

Godstud wrote::roll: Don't be obtuse.

Putin, The Saudi Prince, KJU... all Dictators.

Well, President Trump treated the Queen of England with the same respect as your named Dictators. Wasn't that sucking up, as you call it?
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017258
She took aim at trade issues and urged graduates to “tear down walls of ignorance and narrow mindedness.” How is that an insult? :eh:

Hindsite wrote:Well, President Trump treated the Queen of England with the same respect as your named Dictators. Wasn't that sucking up, as you call it?
The Queen isn't a Dictator. You shouldn't be treating Dictators with that respect. :knife: That you don't see that as important only shows how ignorant about things you actually are. :knife:
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15017259
Godstud wrote:She took aim at trade issues and urged graduates to “tear down walls of ignorance and narrow mindedness.” How is that an insult? :eh:

Even the liberal NBC News knew that was meant for Trump's build the wall and his view of the unfair trade practices against the USA.

Godstud wrote: The Queen isn't a Dictator. You shouldn't be treating Dictators with that respect. :knife: That you don't see that as important only shows how ignorant about things you actually are. :knife:

I am no more ignorant about things than you. :moron:
#15017260
Hindsite wrote:Even the liberal NBC News knew that was meant for Trump's build the wall and his view of the unfair trade practices against the USA.
How is that an insult! Explain it, please, instead of evading.

The Queen isn't a Dictator. Putin, Kim Jong Un, and the Saudi Prince are. You pretending they're the same is fucking stupid. Please, prove you're dumber than shit, and continue on this rant about how they're the same.

Trump treats enemies as friends, and friends as annoyances. He has no fucking clue what "diplomacy" even means.
#15017268
Stormsmith wrote:And those who kidnap refuge's child from their parents for weeks on end. Those who would abuse kiddies by putting kids in kennels. Those who steel refuges' medicines, which is abuse.

For the most part, these people are free to go back to their country of origin or their port of entry. They stay, because if they stay, the courts will eventually demand their release into the US. Nobody has to stay in cages. They do it by choice. For them, it is just the price of admission and they are willing to pay it.

Godstud wrote:She made a big mistake by generalizing a huge population, and paid for it.

You must be commended on saying something intelligent! Well done!

Sivad wrote:Mueller Repeatedly Contradicts Himself & Undermines Russiagate

Thanks for the on-topic post. This is going to be interesting, because the Democrats still think they can get something out of making Mueller testify, but what they are doing is giving the Republicans the opportunity to undermine the credibility of the entire investigation. I've been saying for years now that the FBI/DoJ never investigated the DNC server, and neither did the Mueller investigation. They have never established by the Federal Rules of Evidence that Russia hacked the DNC server. For what it's worth, the propaganda machine does work on the ignorant. It is simply a bold assertion at this point, but the establishment still does it for the dwindling few who still believe these increasingly obvious lies.

Sivad wrote:*Mueller’s decision not to interview Assange – a central figure who claims Russia was not behind the hack – suggests an unwillingness to explore avenues of evidence on fundamental questions.

Mueller's failure along with the FBI/DoJ to inspect the DNC server screams at the lack of credibility. Those of us who have to do forensic computing work know full well that the Mueller Report's conclusions on this stuff is pure hearsay. It would not stand up in a court of law.

Sivad wrote:*U.S. intelligence officials cannot make definitive conclusions about the hacking of the Democratic National Committee computer servers because they did not analyze those servers themselves. Instead, they relied on the forensics of CrowdStrike, a private contractor for the DNC that was not a neutral party, much as “Russian dossier” compiler Christopher Steele, also a DNC contractor, was not a neutral party. This puts two Democrat-hired contractors squarely behind underlying allegations in the affair – a key circumstance that Mueller ignores.

I've been screaming about this for years. It's so sweet to hear someone else finally saying this.

Sivad wrote:*Further, the government allowed CrowdStrike and the Democratic Party's legal counsel to submit redacted records, meaning CrowdStrike and not the government decided what could be revealed or not regarding evidence of hacking.

Right, and the fact that "17 US intelligence agencies" all say the same thing, but none of them did a forensic analysis of the server, the media did not question any of the so-called intelligence agencies, and they all got their information from a source paid by the DNC to say what they said is a huge red flag, particularly since the entire charge against Trump turns out to have been politically motivated.

Godstud wrote:Putin, The Saudi Prince, KJU... all Dictators.

Putin was democratically elected. His opposition is too divided to constitute a majority or even a plurality. That's why he and Medvedev were able to dominate.

Godstud wrote:She took aim at trade issues and urged graduates to “tear down walls of ignorance and narrow mindedness.” How is that an insult? :eh:

You're right. It's a cry for help, because Germany exports 50% of its GDP, which is unsustainable. A trade war with the US would collapse Germany's economy. Government spending is a component of GDP. She could rebuild the German military to offset some of the trade losses.

Godstud wrote:You shouldn't be treating Dictators with that respect. :knife: That you don't see that as important only shows how ignorant about things you actually are. :knife:

Hindsite would only be ignorant if he would otherwise agree with you, but for the absence of some knowledge. It appears he disagrees with you.

Godstud wrote:How is that an insult! Explain it, please, instead of evading.

In a veiled way, she was calling Trump a racist. She is after all the architect of the rise of the right in Europe with her excruciatingly horrible immigration/asylum policies.

Godstud wrote:Putin, Kim Jong Un, and the Saudi Prince are.

King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud runs Saudi Arabia. His son will succeed him. They are a royal family. While Kim Jong Un is a "communist" dictator and mostly just a big fat idiot, he is also in effect part of a royal family.

Godstud wrote:Trump treats enemies as friends, and friends as annoyances.

Is it friendly when your "friends" have intelligence operatives working to prevent you from getting elected and then trying to get you thrown out of office by effecting a coup in the guise of a counter-intelligence/criminal investigation financed by your political opponent and her political party, while the ambassador of your friendly country is bad mouthing you to the PM of your friendly country? That doesn't seem very friendly.

Godstud wrote:He has no fucking clue what "diplomacy" even means.

This seems to really upset you.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017270
:lol: @blackjack21 I don't care how you feel about me. This is not about your feelings for me, and I don't give a fuck what you think about me, since you can't even come up with an argument.

As for Putin and you calling it a democracy... :lol:

The election was fake because Putin's most vocal and most politically talented rival, Alexei Navalny, wasn't allowed to run because of a trumped-up criminal conviction. It was fake because the "opposing candidates" were hand-picked by the Kremlin and because the majority of Russian media are under direct or indirect Kremlin control. It was also fake because of a fierce administrative pressure on Russia's millions of government-dependent voters -- public servants, students, workers at state-controlled enterprises -- to turn out, and because at many polling stations, especially those where the fragile Russian opposition had no observers, ballot boxes were stuffed.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -for-putin
#15017301
Godstud wrote:As for Putin and you calling it a democracy... :lol:

The election was fake because Putin's most vocal and most politically talented rival, Alexei Navalny, wasn't allowed to run because of a trumped-up criminal conviction.

As for you calling America a democracy... :lol: it's not. Because it's not. It's a federated republic. Also, the Democrats removed Tom Delay from his leadership position in the House of Representatives the same way. The Republicans--trying to be holier than thou--unwisely put in a provision into the House Rules that said if their leadership was under indictment, they had to step down. To the Democrats, that just meant filing a phony charge, which they managed to get through via a grand jury in an old Democrat stronghold in Texas. Delay had to step down from leadership. They were able to replicate the process with a trial jury. Delay resigned from office. As I stated at the time, the charge was phony and wouldn't stand up on appeal. It didn't. The appellate courts overturned the verdict. That was beside the point. The purpose was to get Tom Delay removed from office. It worked.

They are trying to do the same with Trump right now.

Putin stood for two terms. Then, stepped down. He was replaced by Dmitry Medvedev. Once the term limits were removed, he ran and won again. :lol: Hitler was also democratically elected. We removed the Democratically elected leader of Germany as a result of WWII (actually, he supposedly killed himself).

One favorite assertion of the political left is that the US overthrew the "democratically elected" prime minister of Iran, Mohammed Mossadeq. What they fail to tell you is that he remained in power by declaring a state of emergency, and held a subsequent constitutionally required election by suspending the secret ballot. If you wanted to vote for him, you would go to one polling station. If you wanted to vote for his opponent, you went to another polling station where you would be arrested after voting for his opponent. Mossadeq won re-election with more than 98% of the vote. Popular guy! Saddam Hussein had similar practices in Iraq.

This whole thread is about trying to overturn the 2016 election on "Trumped Up" charges against Donald Trump. 8)

Godstud wrote:It was fake because the "opposing candidates" were hand-picked by the Kremlin and because the majority of Russian media are under direct or indirect Kremlin control.

You mean like our establishment along with our media was trying to create a Jeb Bush versus Hillary Clinton race, which in either case meant the neoliberal/neoconservative Janus would win no matter what? I wasn't on PoFo in 2004, but it was easy for me to say in a now defunct board that the election was over when John Kerry jumped into the race to replace Howard Dean. Both Bush and Kerry were Skull and Bones. The race was over at at that point. It didn't matter who won.

Godstud wrote:It was also fake because of a fierce administrative pressure on Russia's millions of government-dependent voters -- public servants, students, workers at state-controlled enterprises -- to turn out, and because at many polling stations, especially those where the fragile Russian opposition had no observers, ballot boxes were stuffed.

Oh, and the Democrats haven't been doing that in every US election since the 1930s? If Russia is a fake democracy, so is America.

Godstud wrote:since you can't even come up with an argument.

I straight up rebutted your assertions regarding Ms. Merkel. That you choose not to read and respond is on you. Everybody else can read too and can see that I can make an argument, and you are simply too lazy too respond. The reality is that you can't come up with a compelling response.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017395
:lol: A Federal republic is a form of Democracy, just as a Constitutional Monarchy is, as well.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15017415
Godstud wrote:The Queen isn't a Dictator. Putin, Kim Jong Un, and the Saudi Prince are. You pretending they're the same is fucking stupid. Please, prove you're dumber than shit, and continue on this rant about how they're the same.

I did not say the Queen is a dictator. I was just responding to your dumb idea that treating other countries leaders with respect is not diplomacy, but sucking up, and that Trump only does that to Dictators. I was pointing out that Trump recently did the same thing to the the British Queen.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017419
:lol: You completely ignore what Trump says about them. Trump compliments the Dictators. He didn't compliment the Queen. He envies the Dictators. Any "near genius" would notice this. :knife:
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By Hindsite
#15017423
Godstud wrote::lol: You completely ignore what Trump says about them. Trump compliments the Dictators. He didn't compliment the Queen. He envies the Dictators. Any "near genius" would notice this. :knife:

I noticed that Putin called Trump a genius and did not criticize him like many of the so-called friends did. I think that is another reason that Trump does not criticize Putin. But he has put some tough sanctions on Russia. President Trump has also responded harshly against the North Korean leader and called him "little rocket man" at one time. But now that he is acting better and has released the American hostages and returned many of our war dead, Trump is acting more friendly toward him. The Iranian leader and President Trump are still at odds with words and deeds as you should know and that does not appear to be close to changing. You seem either too ignorant or dumb to understand these facts.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15017434
Trump has only LIFTED sanctions against Russia. You're deluded.


Trump lifts sanctions on firms linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

- Democrats in Congress opposed move to lift restrictions
- Deripaska is ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ska-russia
#15017440
Godstud wrote:Trump has only LIFTED sanctions against Russia. You're deluded.


Trump lifts sanctions on firms linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

You should try reading your own post, because Trump lifted sanctions on firms that Oleg Deripaska had a controlling interest in. Once he no longer had a controlling interest, the US lifted sanctions on those firms, not on Russia.
User avatar
By Hindsite
#15017446
Godstud wrote:Trump has only LIFTED sanctions against Russia. You're deluded.

Trump lifts sanctions on firms linked to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

- Democrats in Congress opposed move to lift restrictions
- Deripaska is ally of Russian president Vladimir Putin

That only made good economic sense for the USA, because those sanctions were hurting the USA and not Russia. Deripaska no longer controlled those companies when the sanctions were lifted and the Trump administration also had sanctions on dozens of other Russian oligarchs besides him.
#15017781
Yet another hole is blown in the Russiagate theory, and the MSM is pretty much crickets.

Concord Management And The End Of Russiagate?
But now Judge Dabney Friedrich has ordered Mueller to stop pushing such stories because they’re unfair to Concord Management and Consulting, another Prigozhin company, which astonished the legal world in May 2018 by hiring an expensive Washington law firm and demanding its day in court.
...
Contrary to internet chatter, Friedrich did not offer an opinion as to whether the IRA-Kremlin connection is true or false. Rather, she told the special prosecutor to keep quiet because such statements go beyond the scope of the original indictment and are therefore prejudicial to the defendant. But it may be a distinction without a difference since the only evidence that Mueller puts forth in the public version of his report is a New York Times article from February 2018 entitled “Yevgeny Prigozhin, Russian Oligarch Indicted by US, Is Known as ‘Putin’s Cook.’”

It’s a case of trial by press clip that should have been laughed out of court – and now, more or less, it is. Without the IRA, the only argument left in Mueller’s brief is that Russia stole some 28,000 emails and other electronic documents from Democratic National Committee computers and then passed them along to WikiLeaks, which published them to great fanfare in July 2016.

But as Consortium News pointed out the day the Mueller report came out, that’s dubious as well. [See “The ‘Guccifer 2.0’ Gaps in Mueller’s Full Report,” April 18.] The reason: it rests on a timeline that doesn’t make sense:

June 12, 2016: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange announces that “leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton” were on the way.

June 15: Guccifer 2.0, allegedly a stand-in for Russian military intelligence, goes on line to claim credit for the hack.

June 22: Guccifer and WikiLeaks establish contact.

July 14: Guccifer sends WikiLeaks an encrypted file.

July 18: WikiLeaks confirms that it’s opened it up.

July 22: The group releases a giant email cache indicating that the DNC rigged the nominating process in favor of Hillary Clinton and against Bernie Sanders.

But why would Assange announce the leaked emails on June 12 before hearing from the source on June 22? Was he clairvoyant?

Deep state is getting beat, and it's high time this happened to them. I recall authoring a thread on this too, and nobody here seemed to pick up the gist.

Then came the unexpected. Concord Management hired Reed Smith, a top-flight law firm with offices around the world, and demanded to be heard. The move was “a real head-scratcher,” one Washington attorney told Buzzfeed, because Concord was beyond the reach of U.S. law and therefore had nothing to fear from an indictment and nothing to gain, apparently, from going to court. But then the firm demanded to exercise its right of discovery, meaning that it wanted access to Mueller’s immense investigative file. Blindsided, Mueller’s requested a delay “on the astonishing ground,” according to McCarthy, “that the defendant has not been properly served – notwithstanding that the defendant has shown up in court and asked to be arraigned.”

However, it does show that the charge, like the whole charge against Trump, was phony from the outset. It was only made as window dressing. Since they wouldn't be arrested and tried, the fact that they showed up and demanded to see the evidence was something Mueller's team did not expect. As team Trump keeps pushing back, the whole thing is coming apart piece by piece. Nadler is going to regret calling Mueller to testify.

Now Mueller is in an even worse pickle because he’s barred from mentioning a major chunk of his report. What will he discuss if Democrats succeed in getting him to testify before the House intelligence and judiciary committees next week – the weather? If his team goes forward with the Concord prosecution, he’ll risk having to turn over sensitive information while involving himself in a legal tangle that could go on for years, all without any conceivable payoff. If he drops it, the upshot will be a public-relations disaster of the first order.

Well, at least now he has cover for not talking. He'll just have to refer to the report or find himself in contempt of court.

The Deep State's day of reckoning is coming.
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