[Nets]

Short Term:
* Have Fed increase total reserves in the banking system.
* Institute a negative interest rate on bank reserves held at the Fed.

Long Term:
* Break teachers' unions and open up public schooling to competition.
* Massive infrastructure and R&D spending.
* More Fed oversight of financial institutions / Elimination of "too big to fail" phenomenon / consumer education about financial products in High School.

[Wolfman]

I'm very disappointed in you Nets for thinking just 5 things can be used to unfuck decades of systemic economic retardation. Very disappointed in deed.

[Nets]

I made no such claim. These would the be the first five things I would do, not all of them. I was answering the OP.

[JohnRawls]

Short Term:
* Have Fed increase total reserves in the banking system.
* Institute a negative interest rate on bank reserves held at the Fed.

Long Term:
* Break teachers' unions and open up public schooling to competition.
* Massive infrastructure and R&D spending.
* More Fed oversight of financial institutions / Elimination of "too big to fail" phenomenon / consumer education about financial products in High School.

The only sane post in the thread .

What about starting to actually increase interest rates so that banks couldn't actually give loans to everybody they wished for and tried to be picky ? Ofcourse that would hurt the economy in the short run but in the long run it would be a great + , no ?

I think someone before greenspan tried doing something like that and got fired if i am not mistaken .

[Nets]

What about starting to actually increase interest rates so that banks couldn't actually give loans to everybody they wished for and tried to be picky ? Ofcourse that would hurt the economy in the short run but in the long run it would be a great + , no ?

I think it is way too soon to even think about raising interest rates. If interest rates weren't already at the zero bound I'd drive them lower. (Hence, the negative reserve rate I support.)

Anyway, I am not sure that I follow your logic that increasing interest rates lowers loan supply.

I think someone before greenspan tried doing something like that and got fired if i am not mistaken .

Before Greenspan you had Paul Volcker and before him Arthur Burns, who was controlled by Nixon.

[Wolfman]

I made no such claim. These would the be the first five things I would do, not all of them. I was answering the OP.

I protested. You could have joined me.

[JohnRawls]

I think it is way too soon to even think about raising interest rates. If interest rates weren't already at the zero bound I'd drive them lower. (Hence, the negative reserve rate I support.)

Anyway, I am not sure that I follow your logic that increasing interest rates lowers loan supply.

Well , i always though that those interest rates allow banks to lend more money , meaning that , they need to have only x amount of money backed up or in physical qunatity to let them lend more money . And the lower the interest rate the more money they can 'theoretically' lend .

So by decreasing the maximum bar , the fed can decrease the amount of money they could lend , thus making the banks more picky .

Before Greenspan you had Paul Volcker and before him Arthur Burns, who was controlled by Nixon.

I think it was volcker .

[Nets]

Well , i always though that those interest rates allow banks to lend more money , meaning that , they need to have only x amount of money backed up or in physical quantity to let them lend more money . And the lower the interest rate the more money they can 'theoretically' lend .

So by decreasing the maximum bar , the fed can decrease the amount of money they could lend , thus making the banks more picky .

You seem to be confusing reserve ratios with interest rates. Banks are required to have some amount 0 < r < 1 of reserves for every dollar they lend out. Reserve requirements are not an effective Fed tool though when banks desire a reserve ratios above the Fed policy instrument.

Interest rates aren't necessarily related to this.

[JohnRawls]

Thanks for clearing that up for me .

[Zerogouki]

Note that it doesn't actually have to be five points. Any number will do.

I also have to say: I'm really disappointed in anyone that thinks you can list 5 things to do that will fix the US economy. I could rattle off 50 things that need to be done, and it still wouldn't be nearly enough to completely fix our economy.

5 points isn't really enough

These would the be the first five things I would do, not all of them.

Read more carefully.

While this sounds nice, the problem is there is simply not enough metal given the vast quantities of production and money in the world today. It would drive metal prices way too high and make them unavailable for for industrial uses.

Hence the use of the phrase "make steps to begin", not "jump straight into the deep end".

Read more carefully.

Reduce every elected federal politician postition to a part time job.

A few hours per day, three days per week isn't already part-time?

[Wolfman]

The 'big stuff' is pointless with the 'little stuff'. But, I'll rattle off whatever comes to mind in no particular order:
1. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which says that causing an overall increase in the national debt is an act of treason*
2. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which sets a limit of $43,000 per working age individual (yes, this is a modified Fiat system).
3. Change social security laws such that the age of retirement is 74**, and
4. Have the age of retirement adjusted as needed every 20 years
5. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which allows for the Legislature to pass a system of universal healthcare, but requires after the legislature has approved it, the state legislatures of atleast 50% of the states must approve.
6. Have a panel of economists, medical administrators, health insurance experts, and legislators do an analysis of every countries healthcare system and find the most economical, and then have that system put into place in the US, phasing out existing systems as needed
7. Burn all tax law, and replace it with a flat 15% income tax used just for national defense (which includes the FBI, CIA, FEMA, and I might be able to think of one or two more), a user fee pays for infrastructure, and whatever source of funding needed for 6 (I have a feeling it will be a forced saving system akin to Singapore, fyi), and profit from number 8 pays for social programs
8. Simultaneously set up a government run light industrial, heavy industrial, and high tech company, while heavily fining US companies which outsource.
9. Don't fine such companies which outsource to Mexico***
10. Go to every level of management of every part of the US Federal Government, and tell the person in charge they have 5 minutes to justify their role, or they're fired.
11. Phase out the people who are useless over a period of a decade.
12. Amend the Constitution such that the Legislature is replaced by a single house, which has 1 legislature per 1% of the US population, with no state getting less then 1, and all rounding taking place normally (for reference, California will only have 12 Legislatures)
13. Set limits on the pay of all elected officials as being no more then 200% of the population they represent (that would half legislatures payment, btw)
14. Focus group the shit out of the military (ask every E4-E7 what they like, don't like, and hate about there branch, and what they think can be done to improve the military and decrease cost)
15. Retask the military so that 75% of military personnel is a reservist. Active Duty is the command elements and special forces. Military is retasked to strictly defensive. Population of military (active, reserve/guard, inactive reserve/guard) and other elements of the Defense industry is set to 1% of the US population
16. Set up a system such that an individual can do government work instead of paying up to 50% of there income tax (and they themselves must do it). Such work would be related to the maintenance of infrastructure.
17. Universal Condoms!
18. Phase out the Finance Industry (no new corporations are allowed to be made, and all others are removed by offering market price for stocks to share holders over a period of 2 decades)
19. Repayment of debt is done by a land value tax.
20. After debt is repayed, a cushion of 10% of the national budget is maintained to allow for excess spending when needed, without automatically causing a national debt.
21. Any payment to any government official (elected or otherwise) will be considered a bribe, and will be subject to a trial for treason*
22. Reduce Public School Funding from $10,000 per student per year, to $7,000 per student per year
23. Have money attached to student, which follows student around, regardless of what school he/she goes to, any where in any state, so long as the student is actually able to get there.
24. Create an end of year test which measures Basic Algebra, US History, International History, US Law, US Government, English, a Secondary Language of the students choosing, Computer Science, Car Maintenance, Sex Ed, and other essential topics which I cannot think of at this time. From these results, a student who gets a 70% or higher on each subject passes on to the next year, and if not, you failed. Fail 2 years in a row, or 3 times in a decade, and you're kicked off of public funding. (obvious exception for special ed)
25. Outlaw the practice of 'abstinence only' sex ed
26. Have schools average percent given to the school itself as it's listed success rate. A school with listed success rate of less then 70% for 2 years in a row, or 3 years in a decade looses it's accreditation for 1 decade. Any organization may attempt accreditation, but must meet certain criteria, and after there first year, must have atleast a 75% passing rate.
27. Public School Funding can only be used for essential goods, or tested classes.
28. All regulations are scrapped, and new laws are instituted which are limited to rationally and to product and worker safety
29. Have 75% of the CIA arrested for treason (not really economic, but oh well)
30. The name of the bill escapes me, but there is a bill which offers economic incentives for buying a single family home, replace it with one for multifamily homes.
31. End war on drugs, and release those held on federal drug laws (but those who committed crimes related to drugs remain in jail)
32. His name escapes me, but sue the guy who owns 70% of US media. We can use the money.
33. Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
34. Require any country getting economic aid from the US to meet certain development requirements in order to continue to get such funding.
35. Cut funding to Israel if they don't return to the 1967 borders and stop aggressive action against the Palestinians (notice I said 'aggressive', defending and counter attacking I'm fine with)
36. Before everything, give a speech which says 'the next 10 years are probably going to hurt. But, the 10 years after will be great'
37. Find a way to have the phrase "growth for its own sake is precisely the philosophy of the cancer cell. —Sydney J Harris" written into the Constitution.

I'm sure I could think of more, but this is all that comes immediately to mind.

* The proceeding will basically go as follows: Your case is first reviewed by the Supreme Court, if they find you guilty, you go to the next highest Federal Court for retrial and sentencing. Basically, you have convicted twice.
** When originally passed, the age of retirement was about 3 years before the average age of death. It has gone up since then, but people have forgotten that. This is a reason for the Social Security problem
*** The reason Mexicans immigrate (legally or otherwise) to the US is to find a job, so logically, doing something which will give jobs to Mexicans, will reduce the need for them to immigrate in the first place.

[Andys]

1. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which says that causing an overall increase in the national debt is an act of treason*

Republicans tried to pass an amendment that when the budget ran a deficit, all members of congress wouldn't get paid.

2. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which sets a limit of $43,000 per working age individual (yes, this is a modified Fiat system).

Crash the economy instantly.

3. Change social security laws such that the age of retirement is 74**, and
4. Have the age of retirement adjusted as needed every 20 years

Better yet, allow people to opt-out. But that won't fix the economy.

8. Simultaneously set up a government run light industrial, heavy industrial, and high tech company, while heavily fining US companies which outsource.

The reason companies outsource is because they can't compete otherwise. So now we're going to fine them. Good way to bankrupt even more companies, or make them over over seas completely. Further, government run industries have fail every time they are tried. Why do you think China and India have been privatizing their government industries? Now you want to adopted the system that failed them, and they are moving away from?

10. Go to every level of management of every part of the US Federal Government, and tell the person in charge they have 5 minutes to justify their role, or they're fired.

Every part of government has some rational for their existence, just like every line of tax code on those 5000 pages of tax law, has some rational for it's existence too.

18. Phase out the Finance Industry (no new corporations are allowed to be made, and all others are removed by offering market price for stocks to share holders over a period of 2 decades)

Crash the economy.

19. Repayment of debt is done by a land value tax.

Crash the economy.

So many bad, or useless ideas in there. Not really worth going over the rest.

[Wolfman]

If you had any real argument, you would post something other then 'crash the economy instantly'.

[Nets]

If you had any real argument, you would post something other then 'crash the economy instantly'.

Why make a lengthy post when "crash the economy" succinctly explains the ramifications of these policies.

2. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which sets a limit of $43,000 per working age individual (yes, this is a modified Fiat system).

Explain more.

[Wolfman]

Because a statement isn't an argument. If he wants to make statements, he should run a blog, not join a forum.

[Todd D.]

Because a statement isn't an argument. If he wants to make statements, he should run a blog, not join a forum.

I once suggested the same thing. I was told the following:

Making a statement is generally how debates start.

Source

[Wolfman]

There's a big difference in the two situations Todd. I made a statement as a part of a broader statement, you translated it as "It is because I say it is", and I responded with 'a statement is a good way to open a debate'. In this, I laid out a list of policies, and the response was basically a big 'go fuck yourself'.

[Todd D.]

No, the response was a rebuttal on certain points, and a simple "that will crash the economy" to certain points. Not "go fuck yourself".

You responded to a most of mine in the previous thread stating that even though it wasn't strictly a public good, healthcare qualified as something that the government should provide, and you said this without any substantiation. Andys made a comparable response to your plans to "unfuck" the US economy, similarly without any substantiation. You stated to me that unsubstantiated statements are a good way to start a debate...and then stated to Andys that unsubstantiated statements belong on a blog, not a forum.

[Wolfman]

Addressed in thread. Besides, two wrongs don't make a right.

[TropicalK]

Wolfman-

2. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which sets a limit of $43,000 per working age individual (yes, this is a modified Fiat system).

Probably a decent pragmatic solution, something which I would support over the status quo, but still not perfect. If followed through with mechanical unwavering efficiency, it would make the USD very stable.

3. Change social security laws such that the age of retirement is 74**, and
4. Have the age of retirement adjusted as needed every 20 years

agree

5. Pass a Constitutional Amendment which allows for the Legislature to pass a system of universal healthcare, but requires after the legislature has approved it, the state legislatures of atleast 50% of the states must approve.

I don't see why the federal government is needed in this area at all. States should be able to chose what they want individually. If the US does go for universal healthcare, I'd like to see immigration severely restricted.

6. Have a panel of economists, medical administrators, health insurance experts, and legislators do an analysis of every countries healthcare system and find the most economical, and then have that system put into place in the US, phasing out existing systems as needed

Probably worth a look, yet 90% of the economics is obvious.

7. Burn all tax law, and replace it with a flat 15% income tax used just for national defense (which includes the FBI, CIA, FEMA, and I might be able to think of one or two more), a user fee pays for infrastructure, and whatever source of funding needed for 6 (I have a feeling it will be a forced saving system akin to Singapore, fyi), and profit from number 8 pays for social programs

agree in principal, but 15% for the military is WAY too much, I don't want North Korea here.

8. Simultaneously set up a government run light industrial, heavy industrial, and high tech company, while heavily fining US companies which outsource.

Largely unnecessary if taxes are low enough. I wouldn't be opposed to a government spinnoff whose purpose is to buy and create patents for free internal use within the US though.

9. Don't fine such companies which outsource to Mexico***

House should pay double.

10. Go to every level of management of every part of the US Federal Government, and tell the person in charge they have 5 minutes to justify their role, or they're fired.
11. Phase out the people who are useless over a period of a decade.

yup, but I'd respect their employment contract rights for a reasonable layoff time.

13. Set limits on the pay of all elected officials as being no more then 200% of the population they represent (that would half legislatures payment, btw)

Side comment, I'd like to see anyone running for office to be required to disclose how much of a salary they would like publicly and printed on voter ballots. Example Rod Smith $75,000 and Bill Simpson $200,000. Ditto for corporate governance. Pay should be voted by the public and B.shareholders.

16. Set up a system such that an individual can do government work instead of paying up to 50% of there income tax (and they themselves must do it). Such work would be related to the maintenance of infrastructure.

Interesting, but would likely go against the gains of specialization.

17. Universal Condoms!

I'd like to see this handled by charities and insurance companies.

18. Phase out the Finance Industry (no new corporations are allowed to be made, and all others are removed by offering market price for stocks to share holders over a period of 2 decades)

You are aware that there are non-finance corporations right? what is the motivation? just remove the government subsidies. I object to this more than any other point.

19. Repayment of debt is done by a land value tax.
20. After debt is repayed, a cushion of 10% of the national budget is maintained to allow for excess spending when needed, without automatically causing a national debt.

Maintained in terms of what? Dollars? The government can just print dollars at any time relegating a cash cushion useless except in case of #2. I would like to see a cushion in terms of real assets though, metals, commodities, land.

30. The name of the bill escapes me, but there is a bill which offers economic incentives for buying a single family home, replace it with one for multifamily homes.

This isn't Yugoslavia ya know.

31. End war on drugs, and release those held on federal drug laws (but those who committed crimes related to drugs remain in jail)

agree

33. Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

agree

35. Cut funding to Israel if they don't return to the 1967 borders and stop aggressive action against the Palestinians (notice I said 'aggressive', defending and counter attacking I'm fine with)

why the 1967 border?

37. Find a way to have the phrase "growth for its own sake is precisely the philosophy of the cancer cell. —Sydney J Harris" written into the Constitution.

The association of GDP as the indicator of economic purpose should be loosened substantially.