[Doug64]

If facts and data are what is required for a reference page, then this is not a reference page, in my opinion.

Rasmussen polls seem to deliberately skew questions in order to promote an agenda. It may be a fact or data point that x number of US people treat it as a real survey and answer, but all it shows is how gullible some US people are to this type of thing, rather than actually providing any information about what people in the US actually think.

Except whenever I post the actual questions, no one can give convincing reasons why they're skewed.

... this republican propaganda machine.

Best in the nation at predicting the spread of the last presidential election.

[Pants-of-dog]

Except whenever I post the actual questions, no one can give convincing reasons why they're skewed.

Actually, Drlee just did that.

[Doug64]

Actually, Drlee just did that.

What, calling it "slanted nonsense" and "Republican propaganda" counts as a convincing reason they're skewed? Unless you're talking about the poll Drlee referenced earlier about the Paris Accords, and in that case I don't know what Drlee was complaining about -- the options were to pull out of the Accords or send the agreement to the Senate, and only 30% said they wanted us to pull out while 60% wanted it sent to the Senate.

[Pants-of-dog]

That does not address the point that Drlee made.

Please note that Drlee pointed out that most US citizens oopose Trump's plan to pull out of the Paris accords, while the "polls" you cite deliberately skew the phrasing to make it seem otherwise.

......

So what is the truth. Two separate polls that I have read, from reputable polling companies such as Harris, show that voters are opposed to withdrawing from Paris by an overwhelming majority...70% in one poll, oppose our pulling out. But Rasmussen wants to make this about "energy costs" thereby deliberately misrepresenting the position of the American people.

....

[Doug64]

That does not address the point that Drlee made.

Please note that Drlee pointed out that most US citizens oopose Trump's plan to pull out of the Paris accords, while the "polls" you cite deliberately skew the phrasing to make it seem otherwise.

Try again: in the poll I cited, 30% wanted us to pull out and 60% wanted the agreement sent to the Senate. How is that "otherwise"?

[Pants-of-dog]

Please note that Drlee has already explained this.

But for those who need it repeated:

Rasmussen claims that most US people want to keep energy costs low, and they use this as a reason why Trump is right to pull the US out of the Paris accords, while simultaneously ignoring that most US peoole do not want to pull out of the Paris accords.

This is obviously deliberate skewing of language to make it seem like Trump's policies are popular when they are not.

This whole read is full of examples like this. This is why I agree with Drlee that this is not a reference thread. It is a platform for "alternative facts" as embraced by portions of the right wing US.

[Doug64]

I see, you and Drlee are upset that Rasmussen pointed out that people are unwilling to actually pay for the Paris Accords' implementation, whatever they might have said about whether they wanted Trump to pull out.

You see much the same effect with abortion -- pro-choicers like to point at polls showing majority support for Roe v. Wade to argue that the public supports them, but whenever pollsters ask about what laws people actually want the results are consistently more stringent than the Supreme Court allows.

[Pants-of-dog]

I see, you and Drlee are upset that Rasmussen pointed out that people are unwilling to actually pay for the Paris Accords' implementation, whatever they might have said about whether they wanted Trump to pull out.

I don't think anyone said anything about whether or not peope are unwilling to pay. That seems like another bait and switch a la Rasmussen.

People said they do not want higher energy costs. Apparently you and Rasmussen want to twist this into meaning that people do not want to economically support the Paris accords.

You see much the same effect with abortion -- pro-choicers like to point at polls showing majority support for Roe v. Wade to argue that the public supports them, but whenever pollsters ask about what laws people actually want the results are consistently more stringent than the Supreme Court allows.

I doubt it.

[Doug64]

I don't think anyone said anything about whether or not peope are unwilling to pay. That seems like another bait and switch a la Rasmussen.

People said they do not want higher energy costs. Apparently you and Rasmussen want to twist this into meaning that people do not want to economically support the Paris accords.

And just how were we supposed to put the Paris Accords into action without spending more money on energy? That simply wasn't possible.

I doubt it. [Whether people want more stringent abortion restrictions that the Supreme Court currently allows.]

That isn't hard to verify. A CBS poll had 60% that want abortions at least restricted more that currently if not banned entirely. CNN found 54% that believe abortion should be illegal or legal in a few circumstances. NBC found 52% want abortion illegal entirely or only in cases of rape/incest or when the mother's life is at risk. Multiple polls show a majority of Americans want abortion banned after 20 weeks, including a Marist poll that found almost 3/4 want abortion banned after the first trimester.

Here's this week's round-up of polls. Anyone that wants to check out any possible links over the next week can go to the link to the left. (Anyone wanting more details on a particular poll, just ask):

At week’s end, President Trump’s much-maligned temporary ban on visitors from Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen was at least partially in place, courtesy of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Despite the complaints of opponents, voters agree the ban is an anti-terrorist measure, not anti-Muslim.

Following the attack in Manchester, England by a radical Islamic terrorist in May, 77% of Americans said a similar terrorist attack is likely to occur here within the next year.

The radical Islamic State group (ISIS) took credit for both the recent terror attacks in England. Eighty-seven percent (87%) of U.S. voters consider ISIS a serious threat to this country, and 69% believe the group must be completely destroyed to end its attacks.

The Supreme Court this week also agreed to hear the case of a suburban Denver baker who was prosecuted for refusing for religious reasons to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. Most voters agree the baker has the right to say no.

Two years since being legalized nationwide, more than half of voters continue to support same-sex marriage.

Nearly half of voters, however, agree with a request by the heads of the Army, Air Force and Navy to delay military enlistments by openly transgender people pending further study.

The president earned a monthly job approval of 46% in June, a one-point improvement from May. Trump’s monthly approval rating has been falling steadily from a high of 51% in February. This is the first month his approval has gone up since he took office.

On Friday, 46% approved of the job the president is doing.

Most voters continue to think the president and congressional Republicans will make significant changes to Obamacare in the near future, but most also worry those changes will go too far.

Even more Democrats now think Bernie Sanders is their party's likely presidential nominee in 2020 despite calls for new Democratic leadership and news reports about an FBI probe of Sanders' wife's financial dealings as a college president.

Only 31% of Democratic voters think the current national leadership of their party is representative of most Democrats.

Still, 55% of Democrats believe it’s better for their party if they continue to oppose the president every way possible, up from 44% in February.

The House on Thursday passed legislation denying federal grants to sanctuary cities and increasing the penalties for deported illegal immigrants who return to the United States. Fifty-two percent (52%) of voters said late last year that the government should cut off federal funding to cities that offer sanctuary to illegal immigrants by refusing to cooperate with immigration authorities.

The president said at a recent rally that immigrants "must be able to support themselves financially," and called for stricter enforcement of laws that prevent them from receiving welfare until they’ve been in the United States at least five years. Sixty-two percent (62%) favor barring new immigrants from welfare benefits for at least five years.

But there's been a dramatic shift in attitudes about illegal immigration in recent years, with voters now for the first time ever putting legalizing those here illegally over more border control.

Seventy-five percent (75%) of Republicans and 50% of unaffiliated voters still think it’s best for the United States to tightly control who comes into the country. Fifty-four percent (54%) of Democrats think it’s better to have open borders for anyone but criminals or terrorists.

In other surveys last week:

-- Thirty-seven percent (37%) of voters say the country is headed in the right direction.

-- Most voters still say members of Congress aren’t above selling their vote and think their own representative is likely to have done so.

-- Just 14% of Americans say they would ever consider having cosmetic plastic surgery to improve their appearance or make themselves look younger.

[Pants-of-dog]

And just how were we supposed to put the Paris Accords into action without spending more money on energy? That simply wasn't possible.

I can think of several ways, but that is not the topic. The point is that Rasmussen starts discussing one subject and then asks a similar question, and then pretends that the question is the original subject when it is not. It seems like a bait and switch, and the goal is to make it seem that right wing positions are more popular.

That isn't hard to verify. A CBS poll had 60% that want abortions at least restricted more that currently if not banned entirely. CNN found 54% that believe abortion should be illegal or legal in a few circumstances. NBC found 52% want abortion illegal entirely or only in cases of rape/incest or when the mother's life is at risk. Multiple polls show a majority of Americans want abortion banned after 20 weeks, including a Marist poll that found almost 3/4 want abortion banned after the first trimester.

I doubt it. Please provide links to these surveys. Thank you.

[Doug64]

I can think of several ways, but that is not the topic. The point is that Rasmussen starts discussing one subject and then asks a similar question, and then pretends that the question is the original subject when it is not. It seems like a bait and switch, and the goal is to make it seem that right wing positions are more popular.

I don't see how pointing out that a majority of US Likely Voters are unwilling to pay the higher costs that the Paris Accords would require is a bait-and-switch. It's a reasonable point in the debate of whether we should try to implement them, especially for politicians that want to keep their jobs.

I doubt it. Please provide links to these surveys. Thank you.

You can find them collected at PollingReport.com.

And for an update on the nuances of Likely Voters' current attitudes toward illegal immigration:

When it comes to immigration reform, which is more important—gaining control of the border or legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States?

• Gaining control of the border 45%
• Legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States 47%
• Not sure 8%

Republicans

• Gaining control of the border 73%
• Legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States 22%
• Not sure 4%

Independents

• Gaining control of the border 47%
• Legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States 42%
• Not sure 11%

Democrats

• Gaining control of the border 19%
• Legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States 74%
• Not sure 8%

Before anyone receives local, state or federal government services, should they be required to prove they are legally allowed to be in the United States?

• Yes 76%
• No 17%
• Not sure 7%

Republicans

• Yes 91%
• No 7%
• Not sure 2%

Independents

• Yes 77%
• No 15%
• Not sure 8%

Democrats

• Yes 63%
• No 26%
• Not sure 11%

A proposal has been made to bar immigrants to the United States from receiving taxpayer-funded welfare benefits for the first five years they are in this country. Do you favor or oppose barring new immigrants to the United States from receiving welfare benefits for at least five years?

• Favor 62%
• Oppose 26%
• Not sure 12%

Republicans

• Favor 80%
• Oppose 12%
• Not sure 8%

Independents

• Favor 67%
• Oppose 21%
• Not sure 13%

Democrats

• Favor 43%
• Oppose 42%
• Not sure 16%

Generally speaking, which is better for the United States—to tightly control who comes into the country or to open our borders to anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal?

• To tightly control who comes into the country 50%
• To open our border who anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal 38%
• Not sure 12%

Republicans

• To tightly control who comes into the country 75%
• To open our border who anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal 17%
• Not sure 8%

Independents

• To tightly control who comes into the country 50%
• To open our border who anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal 40%
• Not sure 10%

Democrats

• To tightly control who comes into the country 27%
• To open our border who anyone who wants to come here as long as they are not a terrorist or a criminal 54%
• Not sure 19%

For the record, I agree with the majority on the second and third, and disagree on the first and fourth.

And with the Supreme Court taking up a case for the ongoing fight over people's right not to be forced to be accessories in activities they consider sinful, and its recent decision on the side of religious equality in the distribution of government funds, there's these questions:

Should it be legal for a baker to refuse for religious reasons to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, or should that baker be prosecuted for discrimination for refusing to make the wedding cake?

• Should be legal for the baker to refuse for religious reasons 57%
• Baker should be prosecuted for refusing to make the wedding ca 29%
• Not sure 14%

Republicans

• Should be legal for the baker to refuse for religious reasons 78%
• Baker should be prosecuted for refusing to make the wedding ca 14%
• Not sure 7%

Independents

• Should be legal for the baker to refuse for religious reasons 59%
• Baker should be prosecuted for refusing to make the wedding ca 25%
• Not sure 16%

Democrats

• Should be legal for the baker to refuse for religious reasons 37%
• Baker should be prosecuted for refusing to make the wedding ca 46%
• Not sure 18%

Does the government today discriminate against people of religious faith?

• Yes 49%
• No 36%
• Not sure 15%

Republicans

• Yes 50%
• No 37%
• Not sure 13%

Independents

• Yes 53%
• No 35%
• Not sure 12%

Democrats

• Yes 44%
• No 37%
• Not sure 19%

[Pants-of-dog]

I don't see how pointing out that a majority of US Likely Voters are unwilling to pay the higher costs that the Paris Accords would require is a bait-and-switch. It's a reasonable point in the debate of whether we should try to implement them, especially for politicians that want to keep their jobs.

I understand that you do not see it. Drlee and I do.

If I increase the amount of insulation in my house to the standards set in Canada's energy code, this would actually decrease my energy costs and help achieve greenhouse gas protocols.

You can find them collected at PollingReport.com.

Then it should be easy for you to find the links.

[Doug64]

Then it should be easy for you to find the links.

I provided the link. If you don't want to look at the polls collected there, that's your business.

Here's this week's round-up of polls. Anyone that wants to check out any possible links over the next week can go to the link to the left. (Anyone wanting more details on a particular poll, just ask):

This week a divided nation celebrated the anniversary of the signing of one of its founding documents while its new president made his second trip abroad.

A majority of Americans correctly recognize that the Fourth of July celebrates the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Most still rate Independence Day high on their list of holidays.

Just 49% of Americans believe the United States, as the Pledge of Allegiance states, is a nation with liberty and justice for all, but 75% still say they wouldn’t live anywhere else in the world but here.

Thirty-six percent (36%) say the United States is heading in the right direction.

Voters here strongly believe world leaders need to confront North Korea with military force if necessary to end the rogue communist nation’s push for nuclear weapons. But a growing number say the United States should go it alone if necessary.

At the same time, however, most voters already think our military is stretched too thin and don’t want the United States policing the world.

A majority of voters (55%) say the most important mission of the U.S. military is to fight our enemies. Twenty-eight percent (28%) think the military’s most important mission is to serve as peacekeepers to prevent fighting from breaking out in other parts of the world. Voters continue to give the military high marks for its performance.

The Supreme Court has temporarily allowed President Trump’s newest travel ban against people from six majority-Muslim nations to go into effect, but with strict limitations, and they still intend to hear arguments on the ban in October. Trump claims the ban will keep the country safe, but voters are not sure they agree.

In other surveys this week:

-- After reaching its highest level in a decade, voter confidence in members of Congress is back down.

-- The House passed legislation last week that cuts off some funding to cities that protect illegal immigrants and increases penalties for those who reenter the United States illegally after being deported. Voters strongly support the latter but are now closely divided regarding funds for sanctuary cities.

-- Voters are divided as to whether the federal government has too much control over state and local governments, but most agree that states and localities do not have the right to ignore laws they don’t agree with.

-- Most Americans think there are too many unnecessary laws in the United States today but are split over whether the U.S. system of justice as a whole is fair to most Americans.

[Pants-of-dog]

I am not interested in constructing your argument for you.

If you are not interested in providing supporting evidence, please do not make the claim. Thank you.

[Doug64]

I provided the link to the polls, you chose not to look.

[Pants-of-dog]

I provided the link to the polls, you chose not to look.

Hmmm. How very USA of you....

No. I chose not to follow the links to the actual surveys, read through those pages, find the relevant text, quote the relevant text with context, and bold the appropriate phrases, all in an effort to support your argument.

Again, if you do not wish to support your claims, do not make them. This is a debate forum.

[Doug64]

Here's this week's round-up of polls. Anyone that wants to check out any possible links over the next week can go to the link to the left. (Anyone wanting more details on a particular poll, just ask):

While Washington dithers and the media obsesses on whether Russia did or didn’t, the economy – and economic confidence – continue to improve.

The latest Rasmussen Consumer Spending Update shows confidence in the economy and personal finances at or near record highs.

The Wall Street Journal reports that global investors remain bullish about the country’s economic future.

In June, as the unemployment rate dropped to its lowest level in 10 years, optimism among voters that the U.S. economy is fair soared to new highs.

While most Americans still say they know someone out of a job, that number has fallen to its lowest level yet, as has the number who know someone who has given up on the job market.

Still, only 36% of voters think the country is heading in the right direction. But this finding ran in the mid- to upper 20s for much of 2016, the closing full year of Barack Obama’s presidency.

President Trump’s job approval ratings remain in the mid-40s.

Some are calling the president’s recent speech in Warsaw touting the values and strengths of the West Reaganesque, and voters tend to agree that Ronald Reagan, not Obama, is the president whose foreign policy example Trump should follow.

After all, only 32% felt America was safer after eight years of the Obama presidency.

But just 42% agree with Trump’s statement in the speech that “the West will never, ever be broken. Our values will prevail; our people will thrive, and our civilization will triumph.” Thirty-one percent (31%) disagree, although nearly as many (27%) are undecided.

Seventy-nine percent (79%) say it’s important for schools to teach the traditional values of Western civilization, but only 27% think most public schools do a good job of teaching those values.

Following Trump’s meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, just 18% of voters feel Russia is a bigger threat to U.S. national security than radical Islamic terrorism. Still, only 22% think U.S.-Russia relations will be better a year from now.

The president has urged Congress to repeal Obamacare and fix it later if legislators can't agree on changes to it now. But while most voters agree the health care law hasn't been a success, they would rather leave it as is than throw it out completely.

Only 13%, however, really want to leave the health care law as is. Fifty-four percent (54%) feel that Congress and the president should go through Obamacare piece by piece to improve it. Thirty-one percent (31%) think they should repeal the entire law and start over again.

Democrats need to pick up at least 25 new seats to take control of the U.S. House of Representatives in next year's elections, but after several high-profile losses in special elections this year, voters say that takeover is a close call. The fate of Obamacare at this point doesn’t appear to be a deciding factor.

If given a choice, most Democrats would rather have their political party run Congress than the White House, but Republicans are almost evenly divided.

The Trump administration is reportedly considering sending new suspected terrorists to the Guantanamo Naval Base prison camp in Cuba, and most voters think that’s a good plan.

Voters are still critical of the news coverage Trump is getting and continue to believe that most reporters are out to get him.

In other surveys last week:

-- Thirty-two percent (32%) of voters think criticisms of Israeli government policies and efforts to boycott Israel are driven by anti-Semitism, but 41% believe those actions are driven primarily by human rights concerns instead.

-- Americans are closely divided over a new city of Chicago requirement that all graduating high school seniors must prove they have immediate future plans, but most agree it's up to the students, not their parents or the school system, to determine that future.

-- Just 24% of voters think most high school graduates have the skills needed for college, and even fewer (21%) think they have the skills needed to enter the workforce.

-- Summer gas prices are surprisingly low, but most Americans think they will be paying more per gallon six months from now.

[One Degree]

-- Americans are closely divided over a new city of Chicago requirement that all graduating high school seniors must prove they have immediate future plans, but most agree it's up to the students, not their parents or the school system, to determine that future.

Say what? What happens to them if they say they don't have a plan? They don't graduate? Gonna go research this one.

Edit: It is really real. How little control must a school system have over it's students to have to threaten them to get them to write down a plan for the future? These are their graduates and they won't write a paper without being threatened with not graduating?

[Nat Turner]

@Doug64 Just let trump pass his care and I will vote for him in 020 if 22 million lose their care.

[Doug64]

Say what? What happens to them if they say they don't have a plan? They don't graduate? Gonna go research this one.

Edit: It is really real. How little control must a school system have over it's students to have to threaten them to get them to write down a plan for the future? These are their graduates and they won't write a paper without being threatened with not graduating?

What One Degree is talking about is one of the latest "What the ___?" ideas, this time out of Chicago:

Under a controversial new requirement, starting in 2020, students hoping to graduate from a public high school in Chicago must provide evidence they, too, have a plan for the future: either acceptance to college or a gap-year program, a trade apprenticeship, military enlistment or a job offer.

For what American Adults think:

Beginning in 2020, the city of Chicago will require all graduating high school seniors to prove that they have immediate future plans. Do you approve or disapprove of a school requirement that all graduates must show that they are enrolling in college, enlisting in the military, taking a job or have some other future plan?

• Approve 42%
• Disapprove 45%
• Not sure 14%

Republicans

• Approve 52%
• Disapprove 37%
• Not sure 10%

Independents

• Approve 37%
• Disapprove 48%
• Not sure 14%

Democrats

• Approve 38%
• Disapprove 47%
• Not sure 15%

Who is most responsible for what high school students do after they graduate – the student, parents and immediate family members or the schools?

• The student 63%
• Parents and immediate family members 27%
• The school 4%
• Someone else 1%
• Not sure 4%

Republicans

• The student 59%
• Parents and immediate family members 31%
• The school 3%
• Someone else 2%
• Not sure 5%

Independents

• The student 68%
• Parents and immediate family members 23%
• The school 4%
• Someone else 0%
• Not sure 5%

Democrats

• The student 63%
• Parents and immediate family members 28%
• The school 6%
• Someone else 1%
• Not sure 2%