[Rugoz]

Is any large state "compatible with diversity"? Switzerland's unique because you're small enough to benefit from tax sheltering and tourism, allowing you to have a weaker central government and mroe localization, minimizing collaboration between your different peoples. Larger states, however, require more central direction, and diversity inhibits that.

The tourism industry makes up for ~5% of gdp, tax sheltering is irrelevant. Larger states require more central direction? How's that? But you're right, a decentralized system works better with diversity.

[lg11]

The swiss do much of their business by encouraging rich foreigners (especially Germans, Italians, French and British) to evade taxes in their homecountries. It works well for them, but obviously at the expense of other countries. Not everybody can become like Switzerland, that wouldn't work.

[Rugoz]

The swiss do much of their business by encouraging rich foreigners (especially Germans, Italians, French and British) to evade taxes in their homecountries. It works well for them, but obviously at the expense of other countries. Not everybody can become like Switzerland, that wouldn't work.

You mean some of our banks do. Still, as a contribution to gdp its an irrelevant factor. Banks in other countries do that as well by the way. The myth that the wealth of this country is somehow based on it is beyond ridiculous.

[lg11]

I didn't say that swiss wealth is entirely based on it, but to say that its an 'irrelevant factor' is truly beyond ridiculous as there are more than 500 billion euros (much more than the entire swiss gdp) of dirty money(Schwarzgeld) in Switzerland. Germans alone have 200 billion undeclared francs in swiss banks, Austrians alomost 60 billion.

[Rugoz]

I didn't say that swiss wealth is entirely based on it, but to say that its an 'irrelevant factor' is truly beyond ridiculous as there are more than 500 billion euros (much more than the entire swiss gdp) of dirty money(Schwarzgeld) in Switzerland. Germans alone have 200 billion undeclared francs in swiss banks, Austrians alomost 60 billion.

Banks in switzerland managed assets of 5600 billion at the end of 2009. According to a recent study (official numbers from banks are lower) 725 billion is untaxed money (schwarzgeld) from abroad. Wealth management contributes 15.7 billion annually to gdp, which is about 3.3% or so. Now you can see that loosing those 725 billion dirty money won't make a dent. That is why I am ashamed we allow it, its not even an economic necessity (its tradition).

[Dave]

Why would you be ashamed? I would be proud to have such banking traditions in my country. Subverting the tax authorities of other countries is hilarious and in theory should dampen their economic performance by forcing them to raise taxes more, making your country relatively wealthier to them.

[lg11]

I see our numbers are similar, but still, I don't buy that its irrelevant. I don't know much about that stuff, but all this money is being taxed as well, wich means that the swiss treasury (and thus the whole country) is benefiting from it. Besides, how many wealthy individuals move to Switzerland each year to pay lower taxes, how many companies relocate to Switzerland because taxes are low? This all happens at the expense of other countries. My point is, if every country acted like this it just wouldn't work.

[Dave]

It would quickly turn into an arms race with various jurisdictions attempting to outcompete each other on low taxes, which in turn would drive reductions (or privatizations) of government services. This is why so many states monitor movements of money abroad so carefully, and as much as I hate to admit it...the OECD, the EU, and the USA are probably right about tax havens being predatory.

[Rugoz]

I see our numbers are similar, but still, I don't buy that its irrelevant. I don't know much about that stuff, but all this money is being taxed as well, wich means that the swiss treasury (and thus the whole country) is benefiting from it. Besides, how many wealthy individuals move to Switzerland each year to pay lower taxes, how many companies relocate to Switzerland because taxes are low? This all happens at the expense of other countries. My point is, if every country acted like this it just wouldn't work.

You are talking about two different things here. Your first point was wealth management of dirty money, which as I demonstrated, contributes less than 0.5% to swiss gdp.
Now you're talking about attracting companies and rich individuals with low taxes. A controversial subject here is the lump sum tax for foreigners, meaning that rich foreign individuals pay less taxes than the swiss themselves. What I can say here it that its likely gonna be abolished. In the canton of zurich the voters have already done so and tax income did actually raise (despite half of them leaving). A nation-wide initiative is being worked on.

That won't change the fact that taxes are generally low here compared to neighboring countries, because of intense tax competition between swiss cantons and communities.
Still, they're far higher than in monaco or other tax heavens.

[lg11]

You are talking about two different things here

I know that these are two different things, but they are both problematic. Regardless of the wealth mangaments contribution to gdp (though you first said 3,3%, now its 0,5) isn't this money being taxed as well? Doesn't your treasury benefit from this?

Still, they're far higher than in monaco or other tax heavens.

Well, I hope these tax havens will be dried out, at the same time you can't compare a real nation like Switzerland with a piece of land on the cote d'azur where rich people hang out on their yachts.

[Rugoz]

Regardless of the wealth mangaments contribution to gdp (though you first said 3,3%, now its 0,5) isn't this money being taxed as well? Doesn't your treasury benefit from this?

725/5600*3.3 = less than 0.5.

Sure, if gdp is reduced by x%, tax income is approx. being reduced by x% too.

Well, I hope these tax havens will be dried out

It would quickly turn into an arms race with various jurisdictions attempting to outcompete each other on low taxes, which in turn would drive reductions (or privatizations) of government services.

Maybe we should make a new thread about tax competition and its effects.

[hip hop bunny hop]

If you compare the social equality between white America and say Black America the learning institutions drastically vary as well.

Are the minorities more likely to vote in favor of war? Or mandatory prison? Would white america vote in favor of war knowing black america has an equal say?After all this to me seems to be where much of the social inequality exists in the US.

There are not seperate learning institutions in the USA; they have all been integrated. The problem is that schools in black majority neighborhoods, towns, or counties are reflections of the culture of these communities. This culture celebrates violence, particularly violence against other races, and is shackled to the remnants of Black African culture and a distinctly black reading of the Bible.

The Blacks have only themselves to blame for their problems. Buchanan wrote a neat article about this (LINK)

...btw, regarding your second point: America would vote the way it votes, without regard to hurting the feelings of the Blacks.

[Stormsmith]

America would vote the way it votes, without regard to hurting the feelings of the Blacks.

Which was for President Obama if memory serves....

[Canadianjoe]

[/quote]There are not seperate learning institutions in the USA; they have all been integrated. The problem is that schools in black majority neighborhoods, towns, or counties are reflections of the culture of these communities. This culture celebrates violence, particularly violence against other races, and is shackled to the remnants of Black African culture and a distinctly black reading of the Bible.

The Blacks have only themselves to blame for their problems. Buchanan wrote a neat article about this (LINK)[quote]





I'm still trying to find the part that is fair in your argument. But thanks for proving my point .