[ping.chen]

I myself don't mind it actually, I just wonder how atheists feel about it in the secular nation. You may say even the president says so, it just represent himself personally, right?

[One Degree]

The United States was founded by people fleeing religious persecution.
Our founding fathers, therefore, were very religious.

[ping.chen]

The United States was founded by people fleeing religious persecution.
Our founding fathers, therefore, were very religious.

This tells why atheists are more or less treated with bias in the US? given that the percentage of atheist population in the US is lower than other English-speaking countries like UK, Canada, Australia, NZ?

[One Degree]

This tells why atheists are more or less treated with bias in the US? given that the percentage of atheist population in the US is lower than other English-speaking countries like UK, Canada, Australia, NZ?

I guess bias would depend on who you asked, but I don't believe atheists or most religious people have any real problem with each other. Maybe a small group on the fringes.
Church attendance has been in decline, but most people still describe themselves as religious.
As far as I know, no President of the United States has ever been brave enough to say he was not religious.
Edit: Your question, on second thought, is difficult to answer because there are so many religious groups and atheists does not cover all the non religious groups. There is some obvious bias between liberals and conservatives that overlap on this issue because they disagree on social issues, but this is not uniform and the bias works both ways.

[ping.chen]

I guess bias would depend on who you asked, but I don't believe atheists or most religious people have any real problem with each other. Maybe a small group on the fringes.
Church attendance has been in decline, but most people still describe themselves as religious.
As far as I know, no President of the United States has ever been brave enough to say he was not religious.

Right that's what I wanted to say, the bias has been so influential just like "no leaders in China dare claim they do not believe communism".

More precisely all the presidents claim to be Christians. I think it's equally hard for a president to claim another religious belief.

[ping.chen]

Sorry, wrong operation.

[One Degree]

More precisely all the presidents claim to be Christians. I think it's equally hard for a president to claim another religious belief.

Please note I added to my previous post.
Presidents claiming a different religious belief has been a disappearing problem since John Kennedy was elected president as the first Catholic. This is not a serious problem anymore. I think an atheist president could be elected today, but no one is brave enough to try it yet.

Edit: I should also let you know that I am not a religious person so my view may not be the only one.

[ping.chen]

Please note I added to my previous post.
Presidents claiming a different religious belief has been a disappearing problem since John Kennedy was elected president as the first Catholic. This is not a serious problem anymore. I think an atheist president could be elected today, but no one is brave enough to try it yet.

In other words, Obama or Trump may already be atheists but dare not admit, due to the still existing bias.

[XogGyux]

As an atheist myself i don't really care. If anything I believe it would probably annoy more people of religions OTHER than Christianity. Then again Technically the phrase says "God" and not any god in particular so they might believe "God" = Allah, Zeus, Jesus, Odin or something along those lines.
What I do find fascinating is the idea of "swearing" to the bible or god which is pretty common in ceremonies. I do end up repeating whatever it is being asked to be repeated but deep down I think it is pointless. For me, "god" has no more meaning than Santa Claus, tooth fairies or goblins and it would be silly if anyone would ask another adult to "swear" to the tooth fairies or its the blessed Santa Claus book.
Although I personally don't care I think any government official document/ceremonies should omit religion stuff (for instance government buildings decorations, PRINTED money, etc). This is not to say that officials/government employees should not say/mention god. If they want, they can do it as long as it is reasonably tasteful (not make a freaking sermon about it) and toned down.
Ultimately having people recite something they don't believe in just for sake of it its probably more offensive to those people that actually do believe in it.

[Godstud]

That's probably true. The opposite exists in Canada. In Canada, we had a leader, Stockwell Day, who admitted to being very religious(a Creationist), and his popularity absolutely plummeted. Canadians do not like mixing their politics with religion, and atheism is a lot more commonplace, than in the USA.

You only get a very small group of atheists, incidentally, who would even care about the "God bless USA" thing. People of other religions would probably have more of an issue with this.

[ping.chen]

As an atheist myself i don't really care. If anything I believe it would probably annoy more people of religions OTHER than Christianity. Then again Technically the phrase says "God" and not any god in particular so they might believe "God" = Allah, Zeus, Jesus, Odin or something along those lines.
What I do find fascinating is the idea of "swearing" to the bible or god which is pretty common in ceremonies. I do end up repeating whatever it is being asked to be repeated but deep down I think it is pointless. For me, "god" has no more meaning than Santa Claus, tooth fairies or goblins and it would be silly if anyone would ask another adult to "swear" to the tooth fairies or its the blessed Santa Claus book.
Although I personally don't care I think any government official document/ceremonies should omit religion stuff (for instance government buildings decorations, PRINTED money, etc). This is not to say that officials/government employees should not say/mention god. If they want, they can do it as long as it is reasonably tasteful (not make a freaking sermon about it) and toned down.
Ultimately having people recite something they don't believe in just for sake of it its probably more offensive to those people that actually do believe in it.

Totally agree. You just pointed out the swearing with Bible which seems to be more problematic which assumes president must believe Bible. Surely it doesn't matter personally since I'm even not an American citizen. The real thing is this apparent religious bias appears inconsistent with the characteristic of United States as a secular country. I already said that in Communist China all officials have to swear they believe communism likewise those in Muslim countries must claim to believe Islam, but should the US be categorized similarly?

On the other hand, if I were a real Christian I would not be happy with this trend, since politicians pretend to our believers but in fact they are not, in order to take advantage for political purpose. The original belief has been unfortunately intertwined with politics and thus no longer a pure belief (just like the reality in Communism/Muslim countries).

[ping.chen]

That's probably true. The opposite exists in Canada. In Canada, we had a leader, Stockwell Day, who admitted to being very religious(a Creationist), and his popularity absolutely plummeted. Canadians do not like mixing their politics with religion, and atheism is a lot more commonplace, than in the USA.

You only get a very small group of atheists, incidentally, who would even care about the "God bless USA" thing. People of other religions would probably have more of an issue with this.

Indeed I was stunned when the first time I got the data showing the US is a very religious country in the west. I have long respected that nation as the leader of science/technology in other words modern civilization and didn't think relatively few people there are atheists. Meanwhile I also heard that the atmosphere there is atheists are usually perceived "morally bad", that is to say, once I declare myself as an atheists from many's point of view I admit I'm a bad guy. Because the pressure from this kind of political correctness, it's fair to guess the real percentage of atheists is underestimated. Most remarkably it's hard to believe Donald Trump is a genuine Christian (and the Pope said so too).

Another noticeable point is Japan, a nation normally perceived significantly conservative (at least in East Asia), appear so less religious. one reason probably is atheists in Japan don't need to face bias.

See the percentage of atheists in each country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Athe ... man_en.svg

[One Degree]

I get the feeling you still have a distorted view of how much bias there is in the United States.
I think it would be fair to say the 'average' person could care less whether you are religious or what religion you practice.
More important to the 'average' person would be please do not tell me about your religious beliefs.

[ping.chen]

I get the feeling you still have a distorted view of how much bias there is in the United States.
I think it would be fair to say the 'average' person could care less whether you are religious or what religion you practice.
More important to the 'average' person would be please do not tell me about your religious beliefs.

Please don't get me wrong I have no bias toward US, rather I have long respected America as the world leader of science/technology. Here I just say what I saw and what I thought theoretically. Some people talk because they are upset, I talk because I've got an idea.

[QatzelOk]

I think it might be appropriate. Not because "the USA was founded by people fleeing religious persecution" which is a lie. Sure, there were a few religious freaks, but they were mainly the useful idiots of commerce.

No. I think using "God" as a prop for American self-esteem is appropriate because most of the nations that the USA genocided didn't have the same religious superstitions as the incoming racists did.

And notions of "race" were very important to these invaders. Apparently, only European Christians and Jews have a soul (according to the friends of the fleeing refugees).

[One Degree]

I think it might be appropriate. Not because "the USA was founded by people fleeing religious persecution" which is a lie. Sure, there were a few religious freaks, but they were mainly the useful idiots of commerce.

If there were only a few 'religious freaks' then there must have been only one per boat.
Simply look at the number of ships carrying those who were seeking religious freedom. Your hate does not change facts.

[Zagadka]

Say whatever you want, just don't expect me to say it too.

[mikema63]

I feel overwhelming Meh about it.

Honestly being an atheist isn't something I generally think about. Except the time I was standing in the philosophy book isle and heard two teenagers say "oh man they have a whole book of just psalms!" It was in that moment that I understood asshole atheism.

[The Immortal Goon]

That's probably true. The opposite exists in Canada. In Canada, we had a leader, Stockwell Day, who admitted to being very religious(a Creationist), and his popularity absolutely plummeted. Canadians do not like mixing their politics with religion, and atheism is a lot more commonplace, than in the USA.

You only get a very small group of atheists, incidentally, who would even care about the "God bless USA" thing. People of other religions would probably have more of an issue with this.

Canada benefits from being further North. Even in the United States, there's a North/South divide about this. For the most part, Northerners don't like mixing their faith and their politics. Nor do they like big gaudy displays of patriotism. In the South of the US—and some in the middle—you get a lot more of that.

Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with these things, but Northerners tend to see these things as something you show more than you tell.

So far as the OP, you can say any damned thing you feel like.

I feel differently about changing of the motto from being strictly what the Founders approved of, E Pluribus Unum, to In God We Trust.

One celebrates the United States as an idea:

The other was afraid that God wouldn't know whose side to join in the Cold War:

I suppose it's fair. It pretty much covers both the nice idea of the United States and the shitty execution of the reality.

[ping.chen]

If there were only a few 'religious freaks' then there must have been only one per boat.
Simply look at the number of ships carrying those who were seeking religious freedom. Your hate does not change facts.

I believe we are just exchanging our opinions here, no hate.