An Alt-Right View of Recent Politics and Donald Trump - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14762627
Many people have opined that the Obama Presidency was basically the Hollywood Presidency. It's ending now and many people no longer care what Hollywood actors and fake news reporters like Stewart and Colbert have to say about things.

Why is Hollywood (in particular) freaking out so badly over Trump?

First, because he's a Republican who might actually do the things he said he wanted to do. But second, because this is the first cultural victory the right has scored since Reagan stumbled into one in the '80s.

The left is used to losing political battles. They scream and cry over these but they don't truly panic, because they know that as long as they maintain their hammerlock on the culture, Republicans can't really change anything.

Blue Team Progressivism is a church, offering you moral superiority and a path to spiritual enlightenment. As a church it's got a lot going for it. It runs religious programming on television, all day every day. Every modern primetime program is like a left-wing Andy Griffith show, reinforcing lessons of inclusion, tolerance, feminism, and anti-racism.

Watching a 90-pound Sci-Fi heroine beat up a room full of giant evil men is as satisfying to the left as John Wayne westerns were for the right.

The Blue Church controls the HR department, so even if you don't go to church, you have to act like a loyal churchgoer in every way that matters while you're on the clock. And off the clock, on any kind of public social media platform.

Jon Stewart and John Oliver are basically TV preachers. Watching them gives the same sense of quiet superiority your grandma gets from watching The 700 Club. The messages are constantly reinforced, providing that lovely dopamine hit, like an angel's voice whispering, "You're right, you're better, you're winning."

Hollywood award shows are like church talent shows - the skits and jokes aren't really funny, but it's fun to look at the pretty girls, and you're all on the same team.

Red Conservativism is a business, selling a set of political products. They don't make you feel good, they don't appeal to your morality or your spiritual sense of self, but sometimes you really NEED one of their core products like security, jobs, or national defense. Their appeals to "freedom" and "family values" ring hollow these days, but when people are flying planes into buildings, you need a strong member of Conservatism, Inc. in the big chair.

And when it came down to the things that really mattered - welfare, Medicare, Social Security, and foreign policy, you knew Red Team couldn't really do anything Blue Team didn't approve of, or the Blue faithful would kick them out of office next time.

But Donald Trump didn't sign that contract. And Donald Trump didn't win by selling the same old conservative products. Donald Trump started his own religion, and he won a religious victory.

The Blue Church is panicking because they've just witnessed the birth of a new Red Religion. Not the tired old Christian crap they defeated back in the '60s, but a new faith based on cultural identity and outright rejection of the Blue Faith.

For the first time in decades, voters explicitly rejected the Blue Church, defying hours of daily cultural programming, years of indoctrination from the schools, and dozens of explicit warnings from HR.

We've been trained since childhood to obey the pretty people on TV, but for the first time in decades, that didn't work.

Donald Trump won because flyover America wants their culture back, and Blue Team has not been rejected like that before.

The younger ones have grown up in an environment where Blue Faith assumptions cannot even be questioned, except anonymously by the bad kids on Twitter.

But now the bad kids are getting bolder, posting funny memes that make you laugh even though John Oliver would not approve, like passing crude dirty pictures under the table in Sunday School.

Meryl Streep is panicking because for the first time voters have rejected HER, and everything her faith has taught her to believe.

There is a new faith rising on the right, not an explicit religious faith like long-dead Christianity, but a wicked kind of counterculture movement. We laughed at the hippies in 1968, but by 1978 they were teaching in classrooms and sitting behind school administrator desks.

Where will the hippies of 2016 be sitting after eight years of Trump? How many of the shitposting Twitter bad boys will start up alternative media outlets, until one of them becomes the new Saturday Night Live?

Sam Hyde tried it on Adult Swim, but that was just the early prototype, like Mad Magazine was for the left. There will be many others after him, and they won't be stopped by network filters. They'll come "out of nowhere" on the web, from the secret places that the inquisitors at Google can't shut down.

And that's what Meryl Streep is really scared of. She's not truly aware of it, just like fluttering housewives couldn't really understand the counterculture threat in 1968. But they feel that something is changing in their safe little world, and they know they have to fight it, because this threat isn't just passing pointless budget resolutions and selling pointless platitudes about family values - these guys mean business, and they're fighting on her turf.

UPDATE: Adding one thing in response to comments. Nothing against Christianity, I really wish it still had cultural power. But we can't keep wishing for it to come back or pretend it's still 1958 somewhere, not in an age when the Pope is the new spiritual leader of the progressive left. I think Christianity will come back, once the culture shifts, but the initial energy has to come from something else.
#14762653
Here, I edited the OP for clarity:

Fixed version of the OP wrote:I, as a liberal, have very strong and precious feelings that get hurt very easily by other people. Sometimes actors paid by billionaires say things that hurt my princess feelings. It makes me so sad!

Reagan was really great though.

Anyway, you should never trust anybody from Hollywood because actors paid by billionaires have hurt my feelings with the imaginary things they've said in imaginary situations.

Sometimes my feelings hurt so bad it feels like everyone wants to keep hurting my feelings!

The Daily Show hurt my feelings a lot.

Sometimes I was attracted to the attractive people on TV that were paid by billionaires to tell me things that sometimes hurt my feelings. This makes me sexually frustrated as well as mad about my feelings!

Finally, however, a billionaire from TV doesn't hurt my feelings and tells me that I should have hurt feelings and that I'm a victim.

I love being a victim.

The end.


In less mocking, maybe I just need to wait for the young'us to see this through a few more election cycles. You'll see there's always this grandstanding by liberals feeling the best feelings that they can. The Democrats were always a little on the fence about being absolute whiney little babies. But it seems like in reaction to that, a portion of the Republican electorate put on full little girl panties and tried to scream about being victimized by their sad little feelings.

This is probably a natural reaction to a generation grown up to think that their special opinions were unique and interesting. Even to the point of taking pride in how their feelings make other feelers feel.

Image

However, there is a certain amount of truth in that something is fucked up. It lies not with your precious feelings and who has been victimized by whom.

If ye were to get woke and see, we would be unstoppable and bury all that stand in our way. In the words of Connolly, "Our demands are moderate: We only want the Earth!"

But you willingly give up the Earth and instead post a wretched screed about your feelings and how you feel others may feel about your feelings. The solution you offer is a billionaire media star to replace a billionaire media star.

Get woke.

Image
#14762656
We can be 100% certain that your post was not deleted as you initially claimed as there is nothing in the logs about a deletion.

Both of these messages mine & yours will however be deleted in a few hours to avoid the conversation from steering off-topic.
#14762658
The Immortal Goon wrote:Here, I edited the OP for clarity:



In less mocking, maybe I just need to wait for the young'us to see this through a few more election cycles. You'll see there's always this grandstanding by liberals feeling the best feelings that they can. The Democrats were always a little on the fence about being absolute whiney little babies. But it seems like in reaction to that, a portion of the Republican electorate put on full little girl panties and tried to scream about being victimized by their sad little feelings.

This is probably a natural reaction to a generation grown up to think that their special opinions were unique and interesting. Even to the point of taking pride in how their feelings make other feelers feel.

Image

However, there is a certain amount of truth in that something is fucked up. It lies not with your precious feelings and who has been victimized by whom.

If ye were to get woke and see, we would be unstoppable and bury all that stand in our way. In the words of Connolly, "Our demands are moderate: We only want the Earth!"

But you willingly give up the Earth and instead post a wretched screed about your feelings and how you feel others may feel about your feelings. The solution you offer is a billionaire media star to replace a billionaire media star.

Get woke.

Image

It's true that it took another media star to break their hold, although he is a media star second to being a businessman (or because he was a good businessman). So what you are actually doing here is identity politics.

Not sure what you mean by giving up the earth.

I am (as usual) not posting about my "feels" and your weird fixation on any disagreement with you being about hurt feelings is kind of baffling. How is your post not about your feelings if mine is about mine?
#14762662
Where will the hippies of 2016 be sitting after eight years of Trump? How many of the shitposting Twitter bad boys will start up alternative media outlets, until one of them becomes the new Saturday Night Live?

@Hong Wu what's up with your mans? This your mans? I would punch him dead in the face if I was his older brother.

Honestly, the older I get the happier I am that my parents hit me when I did something stupid. One of the worst parts about taking away parents' abilities to beat their kids is that people like the quoted article in the OP get to go on spewing retarded crap like what I quoted without getting bullied a little bit. Sometimes we need bullies to restore the natural order of things.
#14762665
Hong Wu wrote:It's true that it took another media star to break their hold, although he is a media star second to being a businessman (or because he was a good businessman). So what you are actually doing here is identity politics.


What I'm underlining is that your big savior is the exact same thing as the Democrats' big savior in Obama. Hell, a few years ago, this was the entire premise of the GOP opposition:



And the Democrats did see him as a big paradigm shift for change.



Just as the Republicans saw Bush as a big change against business as usual with Clinton.



Who came in as a big change against Bush:



Who was there to guide the big change that was going to happen:



Which was to underline the big change that was continuing in moving away from Carter:



Who came in to completely change the government:



And we could, actually, go back to the Adams administration to keep harping on this. Nothing, really, has changed. Your feelings have changed. But these crooks are manipulating you and your feelings to make you feel like things are one way, and the billionaire's interests are aligned with you. There are no facts, per se, just the feelings they're attempting to provoke in you.

If we all decided that we didn't like this, then we could have the Earth.

But, instead, it's a generation of kids (on both "sides") obsessed with the idea that their feelings instead of history and material reality is what is going to fix things. The difference is that Reds, the true Reds, and some others actually know what needs to be fixed.

You're left with having felt sad about Hollywood having hurt your feelings. So you watch ads, the same reiteration of the same ads that have been used over and over again, and say that this time—despite doing the exact same thing in the exact same way for the exact same reasons—you feel like things will be different.

Don't worry. When this fails you yet again, the warm embrace of socialism will be there to show you a real way that our problems can be fixed.
#14762667
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:@Hong Wu what's up with your mans? This your mans? I would punch him dead in the face if I was his older brother.

Honestly, the older I get the happier I am that my parents hit me when I did something stupid. One of the worst parts about taking away parents' abilities to beat their kids is that people like the quoted article in the OP get to go on spewing retarded crap like what I quoted without getting bullied a little bit. Sometimes we need bullies to restore the natural order of things.

Seriously, you are a poster I for some reason decided is worth responding to but I have no idea what "your mans" is. Put in some effort okay.
#14762669
The Immortal Goon wrote:What I'm underlining is that your big savior is the exact same thing as the Democrats' big savior in Obama. Hell, a few years ago, this was the entire premise of the GOP opposition:



And the Democrats did see him as a big paradigm shift for change.



Just as the Republicans saw Bush as a big change against business as usual with Clinton.



Who came in as a big change against Bush:



Who was there to guide the big change that was going to happen:



Which was to underline the big change that was continuing in moving away from Carter:



Who came in to completely change the government:



And we could, actually, go back to the Adams administration to keep harping on this. Nothing, really, has changed. Your feelings have changed. But these crooks are manipulating you and your feelings to make you feel like things are one way, and the billionaire's interests are aligned with you. There are no facts, per se, just the feelings they're attempting to provoke in you.

If we all decided that we didn't like this, then we could have the Earth.

But, instead, it's a generation of kids (on both "sides") obsessed with the idea that their feelings instead of history and material reality is what is going to fix things. The difference is that Reds, the true Reds, and some others actually know what needs to be fixed.

You're left with having felt sad about Hollywood having hurt your feelings. So you watch ads, the same reiteration of the same ads that have been used over and over again, and say that this time—despite doing the exact same thing in the exact same way for the exact same reasons—you feel like things will be different.

Don't worry. When this fails you yet again, the warm embrace of socialism will be there to show you a real way that our problems can be fixed.

False equivalence, Trump isn't in office yet so he can't be analogous to Obama's hope and change thing already. And Obama presided over a lot of cultural change, it just wasn't the kind of changes he promised.

I don't view communism as "reality" even though it "hasn't been tried" yet, so I guess that's why I haven't been following what you've been writing.
#14762670
Hong Wu wrote:Seriously, you are a poster I for some reason decided is worth responding to but I have no idea what "your mans" is. Put in some effort okay.

:D Because you love me.

Basically I am saying that the dude in the OP is acting a fool. I seriously don't understand why Trump people are such poor winners. He won and he still for some reason or another wants to whine about the Hollywood elite. Aren't they allowed to have an opinion that's different than his? Isn't that what freedom is supposedly all about? Isn't that why Trump supposedly won, because people said that right wingers weren't allowed to have opinions? And now, look at this, y'all are doing the same thing with the power you have. It's almost like the people in power will always try to find an excuse to disregard the opinions of others. If you feel like your opinion was disregarded and it led to a backlash, why would you do the same thing to the people that you beat? Won't that just cause the same backlash but in a direction that you don't want?
#14762675
Hong Wu wrote:False equivalence, Trump isn't in office yet so he can't be analogous to Obama's hope and change thing already.


I don't understand what you mean by, "thing." I suppose you can identify it any zany way you want, but that doesn't mean that Trump's promise of change is somehow magically different than every other modern president becauase you feel like it is. Also, since he's putting Goldman-Sachs executives, other bankers, and lifelong government employees into office—it doesn't really strike as any kind of stark change thus far.

Hong Wu wrote: And Obama presided over a lot of cultural change, it just wasn't the kind of changes he promised.


This is counter to your thesis in the OP, which depicts Obama as being part of a standard narrative that has not changed:

The OP wrote:First, because he's a Republican who might actually do the things he said he wanted to do. But second, because this is the first cultural victory the right has scored since Reagan stumbled into one in the '80s.

The left is used to losing political battles. They scream and cry over these but they don't truly panic, because they know that as long as they maintain their hammerlock on the culture, Republicans can't really change anything.

Blue Team Progressivism is a church, offering you moral superiority and a path to spiritual enlightenment. As a church it's got a lot going for it. It runs religious programming on television, all day every day. Every modern primetime program is like a left-wing Andy Griffith show, reinforcing lessons of inclusion, tolerance, feminism, and anti-racism.

Watching a 90-pound Sci-Fi heroine beat up a room full of giant evil men is as satisfying to the left as John Wayne westerns were for the right.

The Blue Church controls the HR department, so even if you don't go to church, you have to act like a loyal churchgoer in every way that matters while you're on the clock. And off the clock, on any kind of public social media platform.

Jon Stewart and John Oliver are basically TV preachers. Watching them gives the same sense of quiet superiority your grandma gets from watching The 700 Club. The messages are constantly reinforced, providing that lovely dopamine hit, like an angel's voice whispering, "You're right, you're better, you're winning."

Hollywood award shows are like church talent shows - the skits and jokes aren't really funny, but it's fun to look at the pretty girls, and you're all on the same team.


Now you claim that what you said is not true.

Which is it? Is it a consistent "Blue Church" that runs everything and keeps hurting your feelings, or is it that, "Obama presided over a lot of cultural change?" :?:

I suspect that, in the context of our conversation, your feelings have changed, and thus you have assumed that reality has changed too. This is not the case. Life, and reality itself, doesn't care about your feelings.
#14762688
From over the pond I don't really get what the big stink is over Trump. I get that Americans seem to particularly enjoy hysteria, one of their cultural quirks I guess but this Trump seems to have set the hysterics into overdrive. I am not talking about the fanboys of Trump but his haters, the Trumpophobes are coming across as being totally over top hysterical over this bloke, like how I imagine Christians would be if Satan himself won the election horns and all. Grudgingly I find myself asking why? I don't really care actually, or I don't want to care, like I don't want to care which little sneaking shyster won the last election in some banana republic, but no one will shut up about it so I can't just ignore it. Trump, Trump, Trump, over and over all the time. Anyway the OP's narrative explains a lot and rings true, so thanks for that. It definitely explains why Trump is getting such a different treatment than say Reagan or GWB.
#14762693
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:That seems like a pretty hysterical reaction for someone complaining about other people's hysteria. For someone that doesn't care so much you seem to have mustered enough emotion to defend Trump.

See that is just what I mean. I haven't even defended trump and you come on projecting all your hystierical Trumpophobia at me just because I don't feel the rage that you feel. Somehow I don't think you would have found Reagan or GWB nearly so threatening as to make you lose your shit like this. There is something different going on this time?
#14762705
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:You either have short or selective memory. People were pretty pissed when Bush Jr. was elected, especially since it felt like the Florida recount was rigged in his favor. Either that or you don't pay much attention to American politics.

Also, you're the one using italics three different times. It takes a lot of hysterics to do that.

Yes of course the "Blue Church", as the OP calls them, would hate GWB and Reagan but I do think hate levels were are lot different for them. When I hear "blue church" types talk about GWB or Reagan, yes there is anger and they palpably despise them but at the same time there is a massively comfortable smugness oozing through their hatred. They love to hate GWB and Reagan, hating GWB or Reagan makes them feel good about how right on they are to hate them whereas Trump just has them losing their shit like the sky is falling on them. I don't know maybe you are right and Trump is just another Republican... Maybe then we can stop talking about him for a bit?
#14762718
You spend an awful lot of time thinking about what other people hate without ever actually coming up with a reason why we should like your preferred policies. Which is true of a lot of Trumpists. During the general election, they never came up with that many good reasons to vote for Trump. Their big policy proposal, the Wall, isn't even going to come to fruition the way they want to. "Drain the Swamp" turned out to be a bullshit catchphrase given Trump's cabinet proposals. They're not even going to "lock her up", not that they could anyway. Their biggest arguments were basically that at least he's not Hillary. Well, we'll see how he actually does when he's president anyway but I doubt it's going to be good.
#14762720
^ This is why stage-craft is successful. :roll: Push a paradigm and the noosphere physics perpetuate motion inside our ideological hamster wheel. The WWE may be one low-brow lesson in state-craft, dialectical soap-opera will captivate the tribal audience. Elites build cognitive blueprints (conventional fiction) and project it as our mythic milieu. The Elites bypass their blueprints and harness our energy.

In every human society, the priest class create and project cognitive blueprints. You enslave yourself by believing in the left or right.

Beyond Left & Right
Übermensch: The ideal superior man of the future who could rise above conventional political paradigms to create and impose his own values.

Are we creating our own values, or regurgitating fixed perspectives? Why spend your time playing thought games on a black and white chess board?

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” -Aldous Huxley

If Donald Trump turns out to be the 'anti-establishment' version of Barack Obama's 2008 'hope&change' campaign, we may conclude that Trump had been used as one state-crafted archetypal presidential trump card on the voting public. The elite need to distract and divide the masses through carefully crafted stage-craft in order to maintain control. In 2008, people had been disenfranchised by the Bush administration, so the military-corporate edifice packaged a nice brand for mass consumption, Barack Obama. In 2016, with the rise of alternative media, the public wanted an anti-establishment brand. The Elite decided to use basic reverse psychology and give the public some-kind of anti-establishment option.
viewtopic.php?t=166571

Communism is a work of conventional fiction. Capitalism is a work of conventional fiction. We decide to live the myth.

@The Immortal Goon By believing in Karl Marx (dead language), you revive his fixed perspective and carry out his will & representation (dialectically reinforcing the opposite idea, Capitalism, inside the paradigm equation). In other words, you're a tool, being used by a dead Übermensch. Aka, intellectual somnambulism. :)
Last edited by RhetoricThug on 13 Jan 2017 02:58, edited 1 time in total.
#14762721
LV-GUCCI-PRADA-FLEX wrote:You spend an awful lot of time thinking about what other people hate without ever actually coming up with a reason why we should like your preferred policies. Which is true of a lot of Trumpists. During the general election, they never came up with that many good reasons to vote for Trump. Their big policy proposal, the Wall, isn't even going to come to fruition the way they want to. "Drain the Swamp" turned out to be a bullshit catchphrase given Trump's cabinet proposals. They're not even going to "lock her up", not that they could anyway. Their biggest arguments were basically that at least he's not Hillary. Well, we'll see how he actually does when he's president anyway but I doubt it's going to be good.


I am not a Trumpist though, you think I am because I don't share your hatred, but actually I am just indifferent. The way I see it, from way over here in Blighty, you yanks had a choice between a witch and a clown, and that is not much of a choice at all really. It says quite a lot about your feelings of rage and despair that even indifference looks like love to you. Can you process that?
#14762730
The Immortal Goon wrote:I don't understand what you mean by, "thing." I suppose you can identify it any zany way you want, but that doesn't mean that Trump's promise of change is somehow magically different than every other modern president becauase you feel like it is. Also, since he's putting Goldman-Sachs executives, other bankers, and lifelong government employees into office—it doesn't really strike as any kind of stark change thus far.



This is counter to your thesis in the OP, which depicts Obama as being part of a standard narrative that has not changed:


Now you claim that what you said is not true.

Which is it? Is it a consistent "Blue Church" that runs everything and keeps hurting your feelings, or is it that, "Obama presided over a lot of cultural change?" :?:

I suspect that, in the context of our conversation, your feelings have changed, and thus you have assumed that reality has changed too. This is not the case. Life, and reality itself, doesn't care about your feelings.

I think the "blue church" was a thing before Obama and it increased under him. I didn't actually write the OP, some other guy did, but I mostly agree with it and I don't think there's any inconsistency here. I also can't go very deep into the opinions of the author since I didn't write it.
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