[Zagadka]

It is sickly amusing watching the GOP try to figure out what to do with Trump. They are clearly uncomfortable and unable to even reach agreement with him on policy that they desperately want anyway. 2018 elections should be interesting.

[Drlee]

There is a CNN article this AM about how worried republicans are should they lose the house. Ryan is warning that investigations and articles of impeachment would surely follow.

I want everyone here to realize that as Hindsite is talking about health care, just what American health care he has personally. He claims to be a retired soldier. So while he is supporting much higher prices and lack of access to others; while he is supporting the elimination of reproductive services to others, while he is advocating the elimination of per-existing coverage for others he has:

Hindsite (with his Tricare for Life) pays about $109.00 per month for his medicare part B. So call it $1300.00 per year. For that he gets:

100% coverage for just about everything imaginable short of cosmetic surgery. (And that is covered sometimes.)

If he gets his prescriptions filled at a military base all of his drugs (including drugs off of the formulary) are absolutely free. If he does not go to the military base (simply a matter of choice or proximity) he can get a 90 day supply of even off the formulary drugs for no more than $50.00.

He is able to personally choose any doctor who accepts Medicare, (This is 93% if all primary care physicians in the country.)

He is not required to get authorization for any covered test or procedure. He can go to a cardiologist, for example, without even being referred by his primary care physician. And the government will pay the bill.

He is covered by nursing home care and even in home health care. This is 100% paid:


Part-time and intermittent skilled nursing care
Home health aide services
Physical, speech and occupational therapy
Medical social services

His family, who are caring for him at home can receive respite care at government expense.

He is eligible for a modest dental plan.

In other words, people reading this, Hindsite has single payer, 100% GOVERNMENT coverage for life. If he is over 65 he pays just medicare part B payments. (Just over $100.00 per month.) for this complete coverage. There is absolutely no private insurance plan in the country that pays anything like this at any price. He gets this even if he never served in a war zone in his life. All of this is a pension that he could have been drawing since the age of 37. A pension for which he paid in nothing at all.

And oh by the way, his wife and children (children up to age 25 IIR) are covered by the same level of care.

So Hindsite is absolutely guilty of what republicans accuse democrats and socialists (like he is when it comes to military benefits). He is very free with other people's money.

[Hindsite]

There is a CNN article this AM about how worried republicans are should they lose the house. Ryan is warning that investigations and articles of impeachment would surely follow.

Republican will not lose the House if the Republican Senators will do their job and support President Trump's agenda and pass the required bills.

As far as my Healthcare, I earned some of that healthcare coverage as part of my contract with the government for serving at least 20 years in the military. I received Medicare at age 65 under the Social Security program just like many others do today. $111 dollars is deducted for Medicare Part B. That is a total of $222 a month for me and my wife. It is due to go higher in January. I have no dental insurance, so I pay the full price of all dental services for my wife and myself.

I am against higher prices for others on their healthcare coverage, but many in the lower middle income level have seen their healthcare insurance under Obamacare become too expensive to be practical to continue, because of the deductible structure of the plans. It is not very practical for the young and healthy either. However, it is just fine for the lower income people who either qualify for large tax subsidies or who qualify for the expanded Medicaid in some states.

I have no desire to take away healthcare from anyone, whether it be reproductive services or pre-existing condition coverage. I want to allow Trump to realize his dream of better and more affordable healthcare for all U.S.A. citizens.

I am not interested in unnecessarily taxing and spending other peoples money. Once Obamacare was passed, I knew it would be practically impossible to take it away. But Obamacare, as it stands now, is too expensive to sustain in our present economy. The Trump of God has already sounded the warning that Obamacare is dead. It is just a matter of time that many more will drop out of Obamacare, so something must be done to replace it very soon, or many more will lose practical healthcare. HalleluYah.

[Drlee]

You do not have dental care because you refuse to pay a small amount for it.

Why do you think Obamacare is too expensive. Be specific. I am willing to bet you do not even know what it actually costs. And don't try to google it. You will absolutely get it wrong.

Obamacare is beyond free. It is a profit center for the government. I could explain it but what is the point?

Trump does not care one whit about Obamacare. He is just looking for places he can cut government spending to fund his preposterous wall and tax breaks for the wealthy.

You will not be able to understand this. Perhaps someone can explain it to you.

[Godstud]

They think Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act is expensive, because they've been told that by Republican propaganda, and they are sheeple.

[Drlee]

They think Obamacare, or the Affordable Care Act is expensive, because they've been told that by Republican propaganda, and they are sheeple.

Yes. They lack the education or intelligence to research health care world wide and realize that the US was paying vastly more than the rest of the world long before President Obama was elected. They are not intelligent enough to understand that Obamacare did not increase the cost of health care in America in any substantive way but it did cover more people. They are not intelligent enough to realize that we could provide the better service and outcomes than any other country in the world, cover everyone and save nearly half of what we are spending now.

So you are right Godstud. They are sheeple because that is the limit of their intellectual abilities. They are simply not fit to vote.

[Godstud]

Well said, Drlee. I really hope that one day the USA gets a much better healthcare system. As possibly the richest country in the world, with very advanced medical care, it's surprising that it's not #1. I guess if you took capitalism out of the healthcare system, it might work that way.

[Hindsite]

You do not have dental care because you refuse to pay a small amount for it.

Yeah, I like paying the full amount.

Why do you think Obamacare is too expensive. Be specific. I am willing to bet you do not even know what it actually costs. And don't try to google it. You will absolutely get it wrong.

Our cleaning lady told us that she did not have Obamacare because it was too expensive. Another woman told my wife that the deductible was so high that their family was only able to use it for the the last two months of the year. What good is having healthcare when you can't use it most of the time? I think the good Lord that I don't have to be in the Obamacare system.

Obamacare is beyond free. It is a profit center for the government. I could explain it but what is the point?

Yeah, what is the point of explaining a lie to me? Why would I believe such nonsense?

Trump does not care one whit about Obamacare. He is just looking for places he can cut government spending to fund his preposterous wall and tax breaks for the wealthy.

I don't care about Obamacare either, but I would still like the U.S.A. to have the number one healthcare system in the world as Trump does too. And cutting government spending sounds like a great idea to me. And if those savings go for a security wall and easing the tax burden on the wealthy, that is also fine with me.

You will not be able to understand this. Perhaps someone can explain it to you.

I already understand this and don't need anyone to explain it to me. Praise the Lord. HalleluYah.

[Beren]

If Obamacare fails it clearly proves that real social progress is impossible in the current system, except if you believe having separate bathrooms for all genders is real social progress.

[Zagadka]

Funnily enough, the majority of the population has figured out that the ACA is a good thing. The GOP is in a very hard position trying to stumble over itself. I hope that the 2018 election cycle sees establishment GOP candidates taking a tack of keeping most of Obamacare opposing populist/Trumpist rage hardon to cancel it despite any other force in the world wanting it.

[Rich]

We all remeber the story where Jesus healed the sick, but first demanded that they fill out forms showing they have valid insurance that will cover the cost of treatment.

Jesus healed the sick in his own time and and at his own expense, he didn't argue he should be funded through taxation. I support publicly funded health care (although I adamantly oppose the mandate), so I'm just saying. Also Jesus's example is not uncontroversial, the one time he resorted to violence was against Jewish bankers.

[Godstud]

To be honest, as the story goes, the jewish bankers were setting up shop in a church/synagogue. Imagine how much Jesus would freak at televangelists!

[Stormsmith]

This healthcare debate has been argued all the years I've been a PoFo participant, with the anti-Obamacare crowd either stringing together "n"-of-one arguments of problems in other countries while overlooking the same issues occur in America or by arguing that "America has the best care in the world" while failing to identify (1) what makes it better (2) why the World Health Organisation ranks it the costliest and (3) in terms of results, on par with Cuba, around 37th.

Personally, I could count on one hand the number of people who were convinced to do some proper research.

So I'm convinced the only way these hard heads will change is thru experiencing real health care. Happily people who benefitted under Obamacare will be enough to make changes if you can swing the next election, esp if the Dems win a hat trick.

This business of "America is the best in the world at (fill in the blank)" is holding you back sometimes.

[Beren]

The healthcare debate is not really a debate because there are no debates in America, there are only battles. That's why every debate reaches the levels of absurdity sooner or later, no matter if healthcare, gun control, birth control, or whatever else is debated. Having unfruitful and never-ending debates is America's pastime, they will never reach a consensus on anything it seems.

[Stormsmith]

I know, off topic, but..

The gun issue is a case of people vs big money/greedy politicians There is great strength of numbers for some modest gun control laws, but it's the politicians that are holding up the vote. The just made it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.

However, while I agree with you up to a point, I think this might be changing. If you go into book stores, public libraries university libraries etc., virtually every book is American. There is v little on Europe etc. But the Internet is bringing people and ideas together.

Compare the advancement of black rights to that of gays. Black issues are virtually unique to America, gays are everywhere. Everyone discriminated against gays, then suddenly the issue of legalising marriages arose. Americans went from zero acceptance to universal acceptance v quickly, and I suspect international conversations were a big part of this.

[Beren]

Emancipation of blacks, gays, women, etc. are in the system's interests, but universal healthcare and effective gun control are not because they would lessen profits. If Obamacare were a socialist thing indeed, it would have been repealed and replaced already, however, they won't repeal and replace it just because it's named after Obama, even though they promised to do so.

[Drlee]

Hindsite wrote: I don't care about Obamacare either, but I would still like the U.S.A. to have the number one healthcare system in the world as Trump does too. And cutting government spending sounds like a great idea to me. And if those savings go for a security wall and easing the tax burden on the wealthy, that is also fine with me.

We already have the best health care system in the world. It is called Tricare for Life. You and I already have it. Give it to everyone and we have the best health care system in the world. And expressed as a percentage of GDP it would be cheaper than what we have.

And don't insult our intelligence by saying Trump wants us to have the best heath care system in the world. He does not. He wants us to have the cheapest.

[Hindsite]

We already have the best health care system in the world. It is called Tricare for Life. You and I already have it. Give it to everyone and we have the best health care system in the world. And expressed as a percentage of GDP it would be cheaper than what we have.

And don't insult our intelligence by saying Trump wants us to have the best heath care system in the world. He does not. He wants us to have the cheapest.

What is wrong with having the best and the cheapest health care in the world? Sorry, if that insults your intelligence.

[59 More]

What is wrong with having the best and the cheapest health care in the world? Sorry, if that insults your intelligence.

Cause trump raised the prices on it, and your dumbass supports it. Go take nap, old man.

[Hindsite]

Cause trump raised the prices on it, and your dumbass supports it. Go take nap, old man.

I see we have another troll called "59 More" with his head up his ass.