[mikema63]

@Finfinder Of course, because your limited in how much you can take out of these programs by the exact amount you put in. The guy paying 100,000 dollars a year into payroll taxes is totally not covering the costs of the $100 a year a fast food worker pays into it.

These are income redistribution programs, very popular and convoluted ones, but in the end some people pay in more than they get and others get more than they pay in. From each according to their ability (up to the cap which lets the very wealthy get away with less percentage wise) and too each according to their needs (terms and conditions may apply).

[anna]

I'm an independent and I think the GOP is out of touch, Trump is a maniac, his advisors are compromised and the swamp level is higher than ever.

I think the problem is the electorate is more ignorant than ever.

[jimjam]

I'm an independent and I think the GOP is out of touch, Trump is a maniac, his advisors are compromised and the swamp level is higher than ever.

I think the problem is the electorate is more ignorant than ever.

right on

[Senter]

We have entered a strange time in politics. On the one hand people around the world are fed up and wanting to force a change that will make a difference. On the other hand most of the world is swinging to the far right, which is contrary to the first intention.

The driving force in the 2016 US election was the wish to force a change contrary to the status quo "politics as usual". Candidates who spoke boldly of ending the issues and problems we all know about and want to be changed were popular. Rebels ruled. For the Republicans it was Trump. For the Democrats it was Sanders.

The DNC wouldn't have it. Debbie W-Schultz and Donna Brazile maneuvered to force Hillary to the top. It worked. The rank-and-file either went along with it or rebelled. So the DNC slit their own throats, politically. They shot themselves in the foot by forcing Hillary ahead.

To. This. Day. The DNC refuses to own up to their mistake and to the real nature of the problem. And so they remain clueless as to how to get over it. They think the problem was that Hillary went to the wrong places to campaign, or that they just weren't effective at reaching the "fence-sitters" to win them over. To them, it's not a problem of policy and politics, but of strategies and tactics. It's the position of the chairs on the deck of the Titanic that is the problem.

One way to put it is to say that the DNC would rather advocate for the corporate elite than win for the working class. Both parties serve the corporations. That is to be expected since this is a capitalist country with some very, very powerful corporate elite working full time to influence government. The difference in the parties is that the Republicans blatantly support corporate interests and policies that serve corporations, while the Democrats are more subtle about it and try the impossible which is to serve capitalism while also benefitting the people. They don't realize these things are contradictory.

The winning strategy is to go with Bernie. Find and cultivate a new party and new politicians who are dedicated to serving the working class in all things without apology. Speak like Bernie does. Advocate taxing the hell out of the rich. Advocate huge infrastructure projects like the WPA and CCC. Advocate reining in the banksters. Advocate healthcare copied on the Canadian model and spend a bit more to make it great. Eliminate the income cap on payroll taxes. Promote worker-owned, worker-controlled co-ops. Pass the US version of the Marcora Law.

There are many, many things to do. These are just a start. But this will begin to give the people guidance away from a disastrous swing to the right and toward taking final control of our own lives. Can the Democratic Party make such a change in their platform? Certainly the Republican Party can't.

[Finfinder]

this has digressed from mundane to pedantic and there is no point in continuing. I concede, you win.

I agree obviously you don't realize the difference between Medicare and Medicaid so go ahead and take your ball and go home.

[anna]

Oh Boy! Yet another "Hillary lost, neener, neener!" threads. Can't have enough of those.

Why don't you brainyack Trumpto-Republicans help your boy out on health insurance or something.

They'd better start off teaching him some real history, because his fake history isn't doing him any favors.

Next thing you know, he's going to have Patton crossing the Potomac.

[skinster]

at anyone who thinks either party give a shit about health-care for Americans. They don't. They sold out to the insurance companies and Obamacare is also shit.

[jimjam]

Oh Boy! Yet another "Hillary lost, neener, neener!" threads. Can't have enough of those.

Why don't you brainyack Trumpto-Republicans help your boy out on health insurance or something.

I confess having a morbid fascination with these people and their addled brains. The same fascination I experienced as a kid when my Dad took me to the zoo. It is amazing. Trump may as well have a blinking light attached to his forehead that reads "Con Man" and his lies frequently are at the grammar school level and yet .......... they eat it up. I was born and raised in NYC with sleeze bags like him so, really, there is not much new there for me.

Health insurance? How do you like the latest Republican con. "Oh yes. You will be covered if you have a pre existing condition." Left unsaid is that you will be tossed into the pool and have to pay a few grand a month. I mean, really, cannot a moron see thru that one?

[Senter]

The whole problem with health insurance is profit.

[jimjam]

The whole problem with health insurance is profit.

Certainly................ and there exists in America a near perfect paradigm for health industry profiteers. First off they have at their disposal "pay or die". Pay us or suffer pain, misery and/or death. Hmmmm ...a pretty good motivator. Next is well oiled system to purchase America's law makers and instruct them to protect the special interest of the health care industry. ie. we have financed your election with "contributions" and you will now do our bidding. My favorite of all is the LAW that prohibits medicare from negotiating prices with the drug cartel. The drug cartel has pretty much a blank check in this area.

Profit is fine. Gouging is not and any attempt by the government to protect people from gouging is sure to raise a din of how capitalism must be protected from SOCIALISM. A din participated in by the same stooges who voted for price fixing by the drug cartel.

[Stormsmith]

They'd better start off teaching him some real history, because his fake history isn't doing him any favors.

Next thing you know, he's going to have Patton crossing the Potomac.

still better Patton than Peter the Great

I confess having a morbid fascination with these people and their addled brains. The same fascination I experienced as a kid when my Dad took me to the zoo. It is amazing. Trump may as well have a blinking light attached to his forehead that reads "Con Man" and his lies frequently are at the grammar school level and yet .......... they eat it up. I was born and raised in NYC with sleeze bags like him so, really, there is not much new there for me.

I blame people who willingly watch FOX, and nothing else. This is intentional self induced brain washing.

Remember how girls, in the audiences at Beatles concerts would scream en mass? Researchers looking at this social phenomena noted together, girls screamed but sat alone, they watched quietly. Different dogs, same fleas. Trump's supporters want change, and hate being sociopolitically correct, or as Mother would say, well mannered. When Trump supporters gather, I would expect they try and out-do each other in expressing their support, which is both facilitated and fostered by Fox, in equal measure.

Health insurance? How do you like the latest Republican con. "Oh yes. You will be covered if you have a pre existing condition." Left unsaid is that you will be tossed into the pool and have to pay a few grand a month. I mean, really, cannot a moron see thru that one?

Sigh. So much for truth in advertising. I don't think this will pass, but I hope folks continue putting pressure on Congress.

What's your thinking on the fudge it budget?

[Senter]

Profit is fine.

There will always be profit. But private profit is not fine because it will always lead to this. It validates and incentivizes greed.

[Decky]

The Democrat party is a damn far sight from liberal.

How so?

[Pants-of-dog]

I assumed that Zagadka was using it in the American sense, i.e. progressive.

[Zagadka]

Essentially. It is hard since these terms kinda vary between regions and times.

Basically, the Democrats are centrist PC muppets without balls, brains, or any concept of why they are doing something. That is why they are so dissolute as an organized group when it comes to having a coherent platform.

[Citizen J]

@anna and everyone else
The question becomes, "how much wealth inequity is too much?"
1. when 50% of the wealth is owned by the top 10%
2. when 50% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
3. when 80% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
4. when 99% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
5. when all wealth is owned by one man and everyone else is starving to death

Exactly how much is too much? Obviously, only a troll would choose #5. Meanwhile, trends in America for the past 50 years have been towards greater wealth inequity. So how would YOU prevent it from becoming too much? Each person should answer this for yourselves.

How much is too much wealth inequity?
How would YOU prevent it?

While everyone might have their own unique answer, you might find that everyone agrees on one thing - that there is such a thing as too much wealth inequity.

I blame people who willingly watch FOX, and nothing else. This is intentional self induced brain washing.

Not just Fox, but all the radio bobbleheads. And let's not forget the Maddow and Daily Show crowd. It's been a pet peeve of mine for a couple of decades now. Too many people too willing to feed their confirmation bias and call it truth. America screwed up when we allowed lies to be protected speech. Lying and liars should never be protected. But even that does not solve the most fundamental problem; too many people are too willing to accept confirmation bias as truth. The sheer scope of it shakes my faith in democracy.

[Senter]

I'm an independent and I think the GOP is out of touch, Trump is a maniac, his advisors are compromised and the swamp level is higher than ever.

I think the problem is the electorate is more ignorant than ever.

There has been an intense concerted effort to spread disinformation, confusion, and division by the status quo. In other circles it's called "propaganda". And it has left the public ignorant, confused, and divided. But I suspect the public will need to realize that this is their condition before they will seek the truth.

[moonhill]

I think that the Dems are out of touch mainly because they are not liberal enough. Bernie Sanders was a nice turn of events and polling indicates he would have easily beat Trump by a wide margin (not the margins that Hillary vs. Trump was running).

These days most of Europe has a socialist party as a left party (the have a multi party system). In the US? Its not even a major third party. Americans are stuck in a cold war mentality and refuse to move left economically, inhibiting progress socially. In my opinion, Americans need to get into the 21st century ideologically and follow Europe's lead -- in the modern era they are a stunning example of how society should be run (although I wish France elected Mélenchon)

You do realize main reason Trump got voted in was issue over illegal immigration and breaking manufacturing back to the US.

Had the liberals talk about those issues they probably would got in.

It had nothing to do with social programs, controlling capitalism or free stuff, but issue over illegal immigration and breaking manufacturing back to the US. These are the two issue Americans have the most concerned about that no one will talk about.

[moonhill]

There has been an intense concerted effort to spread disinformation, confusion, and division by the status quo. In other circles it's called "propaganda". And it has left the public ignorant, confused, and divided. But I suspect the public will need to realize that this is their condition before they will seek the truth.

Most likely the problem is the electoral college keep dumping down candidates every election.

Second problem is there no political debates in US like in the UK and Canada. Nothing but political rhetoric and bashing.

Nothing intellectual like they do in UK and Canada doing elections.

[MememyselfandIJK]

You do realize main reason Trump got voted in was issue over illegal immigration and breaking manufacturing back to the US.

Had the liberals talk about those issues they probably would got in.

It had nothing to do with social programs, controlling capitalism or free stuff, but issue over illegal immigration and breaking manufacturing back to the US. These are the two issue Americans have the most concerned about that no one will talk about.

And may I has what Trump has done so far to significantly address those issues?

@anna and everyone else
The question becomes, "how much wealth inequity is too much?"
1. when 50% of the wealth is owned by the top 10%
2. when 50% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
3. when 80% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
4. when 99% of the wealth is owned by the top 1%
5. when all wealth is owned by one man and everyone else is starving to death

Exactly how much is too much? Obviously, only a troll would choose #5. Meanwhile, trends in America for the past 50 years have been towards greater wealth inequity. So how would YOU prevent it from becoming too much? Each person should answer this for yourselves.

How much is too much wealth inequity?
How would YOU prevent it?

While everyone might have their own unique answer, you might find that everyone agrees on one thing - that there is such a thing as too much wealth inequity.

Personally, I would choose #6 when 11% of the wealth is owned by the top 10%