[Beren]

You mean like it is impossible for people to be influenced by CNN and Fox?

At least you know what or who they are.

[One Degree]

At least you know what or who they are.

Censorship of Twitter and Facebook is no different than banning books. There are lots of books that deliberately try to sway your political view. SciFi is a common medium for political propaganda. I prefer to make the judgement rather than someone making it for me.

[Beren]

Censorship of Twitter and Facebook is no different than banning books. There are lots of books that deliberately try to sway your political view. SciFi is a common medium for political propaganda. I prefer to make the judgement rather than someone making it for me.

Then let you establish your own city state.

I consider books different from fake Twitter or Facebook accounts and I wouldn't mind if either Facebook or Twitter went bankrupt and disappeared altogether. I wouldn't feel like it's bad for democracy or free speech. I'd rather prefer forums like this one.

[jimjam]

The nation’s top intelligence officer said on Friday that the persistent danger of Russian cyberattacks today was akin to the warnings the United States had of stepped-up terror threats ahead of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

That note of alarm sounded by Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, came on the same day that 12 Russian agents were indicted on charges of hacking the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Mr. Coats said those indictments illustrated Moscow’s continuing strategy to undermine the United States’ democracy and erode its institutions.

“The warning lights are blinking red again,” Mr. Coats said as he cautioned of cyberthreats. “Today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack.”

“These actions are persistent, they are pervasive and they are meant to undermine America’s democracy,” Mr. Coats said.

China has the most adept hackers working for a government, Mr. Coats said. But Beijing’s agenda was more focused on stealing information and technical advances, while Moscow remained more interested in dividing the United States from its allies and undermining democracy, he said. THIS is also exactly what trump is doing.

[blackjack21]

As an anti-Kremlin operation it's definitely political.

The problem arises if Trump didn't direct it.

“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” Mr. Trump said, referring to emails Mrs. Clinton had deleted from the private account she had used when she was secretary of state. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

As it turns out, that same day, the Russians — whether they had tuned in or not — made their first effort to break into the servers used by Mrs. Clinton’s personal office, according to a sweeping 29-page indictment unsealed Friday by the special counsel’s office that charged 12 Russians with election hacking.

Yawn... I'll believe that when the DNC turns over the server for forensic examination, which they may have to do now with the independent counsel having filed criminal charges against Russian nationals without having first examined the server as far as I know. What we have is a case based on hearsay at this point.

The implication here is pretty major. Mueller is establishing that Guccifer was a GRU front. In other words, those who were communicating with Guccifer in the GOP orbit regarding the release of information damaging to the DNC and HRC were actually communicating with Russian intelligence services.

This is becoming more interesting by the hour

Mueller is trying to fabricate a timeline that looks like Hillary lost because of Trump's comments--whether part of a conspiracy or inadvertantly. The reality is that they had already hacked Hillary's server. They already had yankee white classified information.

Actually, Nixon didn't open up diplomatic relations with China, that was us. Nixon was so pissed he called the PM and told him to cancel the trip so Nixon could claim the credit. The PM had been to China before, and told Nixon he wasn't going to cancel his upcoming trip, full stop. That PM was Pierre Elliott Trudeau, father of Handsome Justin.

Nobody seriously thinks Canada is a major geopolitical player on that scale. Even Hobbit-faced groper Justin Trudeau doesn't seem to run around taking credit for it. Also, since the deep state just started up the dancing bears, we now have to look at this as possible treason since China is a bogeyman too.

Um ….. That's very nice Donald but perhaps more pertinent is the question of why, over a year and a half later, have you done nothing to protect America from attacks by a hostile power? This appears to be a dereliction of your presidential duty to protect America bordering on treason.

Because he doesn't control the DNC server or their shitty security practices...

The nation’s top intelligence officer said on Friday that the persistent danger of Russian cyberattacks today was akin to the warnings the United States had of stepped-up terror threats ahead of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

That note of alarm sounded by Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, came on the same day that 12 Russian agents were indicted on charges of hacking the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Mr. Coats said those indictments illustrated Moscow’s continuing strategy to undermine the United States’ democracy and erode its institutions.

Nobody is fooled by this stuff anymore. The intended psychological impact is that we are supposed to see Trump meeting with Putin on Monday, and think "oh no!". Instead, what we see is that the deep state coordinates and times these events with political intent even though they have not been directed by the president to do this, and even though they are not supposed to act in a political faction other than for the president.

“The warning lights are blinking red again,” Mr. Coats said as he cautioned of cyberthreats. “Today, the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack.”

The US has literally been under attack for well over a decade. Neither Bush nor Obama took the threat seriously, when Russian and Chinese hackers had been stealing billions of dollars from US bank accounts every single year. I will believe they are serious about this when they start sending robot drones over there to kill the perps. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the deep state is somehow involved with these people or are lining their own pockets with the money of US citizens using tools to steal money from US nationals while blaming it on Russians. Right now, the deep state appears to be the biggest threat to freedom.

China has the most adept hackers working for a government, Mr. Coats said. But Beijing’s agenda was more focused on stealing information and technical advances, while Moscow remained more interested in dividing the United States from its allies and undermining democracy, he said. THIS is also exactly what trump is doing.

China has been engaged in hacking for a long time. I've personally experienced them trying to hack my test systems as if they were going to get some valuable data. They were mostly standard brute force hacks. That's why I have no problem with Trump putting tariffs on China. I find it more interesting to hear who squeals about that than I am about all the "evil Russians." Bush let Putin roll into Georgia and did nothing. So it's no surprise that Putin could take Crimea without firing a shot under Obama. The deep state in the US has lied too much and too often, but it's clear for all the world to see with the action in Iraq that the US over-committed forces to be able to address other geostrategic threats. In that sense, the US--like NATO--has a defense budget too small and a bit ill-configured for what it wants to accomplish geostrategically.

[Beren]

The problem arises if Trump didn't direct it.

The problem arises if Trump turns out to be either a "partner" of the Kremlin or a quasi-member of the Russian mob, which is also connected to the Kremlin on the highest levels, of course. Mueller is not really after Trump though, he's after the Russians. Or is it so hard to believe that the FBI, Mueller, or the whole US Intelligence Community are really curious as to whether how much leverage on US elections the Kremlin has? And this just can't be figured out without investigating Trump and the Trump campaign.

[jimjam]

“Vladimir Putin will give a real master class to this inexperienced politician,” predicted Sergei Mironov, the leader of A Just Russia, a nominally opposition political party that invariably echoes the Kremlin’s line. Mr. Mironov told a Sunday talk show on state-run television that the Russian president “will show the difference between Twitter politics and real politics.”

Ian Bond, a former British diplomat in Moscow who is now director for foreign policy at the Centre for European Reform, a research group in London, said he would normally cheer any chance for leaders to sit down and hash out their problems. But, he added, “Putin versus Trump is not an equal contest” because of the Russian leader’s vastly superior knowledge of policy detail, his mastery of geopolitics and his past as a KGB officer schooled in the arts of persuasion, flattery and subterfuge.

Mr. Bond predicted that Mr. Putin, well aware of what buttons to push with Mr. Trump, would urge the American leader to halt the United States’ participation in Trident Juncture, one of NATO’s largest military exercises since the end of the Cold War, which the Kremlin sees as a provocation.

[blackjack21]

The problem arises if Trump turns out to be either a "partner" of the Kremlin or a quasi-member of the Russian mob, which is also connected to the Kremlin on the highest levels, of course.

I'm talking about the raison d'être for an independent counsel. There is no justification at this point. Jimjam raises the question why Trump hasn't done anything. At this point, anything would be an interference with the independent counsel, which we now know shouldn't exist. It's just there so that the deep state can make policy independent of the presidency.

“Vladimir Putin will give a real master class to this inexperienced politician,” predicted Sergei Mironov, the leader of A Just Russia, a nominally opposition political party that invariably echoes the Kremlin’s line. Mr. Mironov told a Sunday talk show on state-run television that the Russian president “will show the difference between Twitter politics and real politics.”

China is already finding that out by way of tariffs.

[Beren]

I'm talking about the raison d'être for an independent counsel. There is no justification at this point.

The justification may be that an independent counsel is needed to investigate the president. It's not something anyone just can do, is it?

[jimjam]

The justification may be that an independent counsel is needed to investigate the president. It's not something anyone just can do, is it?

Right now I thank God for Mueller who seems to be the only check left standing between American democracy and a lunatic with way more power than a lunatic should have. The Senate and Congress have, unsurprisingly, demonstrated themselves to be the useless spineless parasites we knew they were but, against all odds, had hoped otherwise.

The anti Mueller people are nothing more than Donald's ass kissing lackeys doing his bidding.

I shouldn't be but still, I am amazed at how few true patriots there are in the government who actually have the nation's best interests in mind as pertains to Russia's undeclared war on America. I wouldn't be surprised if Donald unilaterally agreed to cede Alaska back to Putin and Mitch Slime Bag McConnel immediately put it on his agenda.

[blackjack21]

The justification may be that an independent counsel is needed to investigate the president. It's not something anyone just can do, is it?

Clearly, it was just a pretext for them to conduct operations without the president being able to interfere or set the political tone.

I shouldn't be but still, I am amazed at how few true patriots there are in the government who actually have the nation's best interests in mind as pertains to Russia's undeclared war on America. I wouldn't be surprised if Donald unilaterally agreed to cede Alaska back to Putin and Mitch Slime Bag McConnel immediately put it on his agenda.

Considering the alternative was someone who signed off on selling 20% of America's uranium supply to Russian interests, we've done pretty well. I'm sure Trump's instinct is to offer him a low dollar amount to sell Siberia to the US.

So what do you think? Will Trump whip out his pecker like LBJ and tell Putin, "Mine's bigger!"?

[jimjam]

Will Trump whip out his pecker like LBJ and tell Putin, "Mine's bigger!"?

Sorry, Donald who introduced his penis size into the presidential debate (Try to imagine Dwight Eisenhower doing this and you will start to get a sense of how low America has sunk under Donald's reign.), does not even win this dubious matchup:

Mr. Putin arrived in Finland aboard a Russia-made Ilyushin-96 jet from Moscow, and headed into Helsinki in his new, Russian-made limousine, which is even bigger than the American president’s state car, known as the “Beast.”

What kind of leader undercuts their own nation before meeting with an adversary? Trump is deeply compromised.

[One Degree]

Sorry, Donald who introduced his penis size into the presidential debate (Try to imagine Dwight Eisenhower doing this and you will start to get a sense of how low America has sunk under Donald's reign.), does not even win this dubious matchup:

Mr. Putin arrived in Finland aboard a Russia-made Ilyushin-96 jet from Moscow, and headed into Helsinki in his new, Russian-made limousine, which is even bigger than the American president’s state car, known as the “Beast.”

What kind of leader undercuts their own nation before meeting with an adversary? Trump is deeply compromised.

Ike and Trump would agree on many things including the danger of the swamp. Ike warned about the military industrial complex. They are very similar. Only the swamp propaganda against Trump gives the illusion of a difference.

[Zagadka]

Ike and Trump would agree on many things including the danger of the swamp. Ike warned about the military industrial complex. They are very similar. Only the swamp propaganda against Trump gives the illusion of a difference.

lol

Yea, let's go back to Ike's economy. Trump would love that.

[Beren]

Clearly, it was just a pretext for them to conduct operations without the president being able to interfere or set the political tone.

Do you think the president should be able to interfere with an investigation into himself?

[jimjam]

Trump will throw one of his patented tantrums at the upcoming NATO meeting and do what he can to discredit and diminish the alliance. He will then proceed to Russia to collect his plaudits from Putin.

Sadly jimjam got it right. Donald's "unpredictableness" is actually quite predictable.

There is overwhelming evidence that our president, for the first time in our history, is deliberately or through gross negligence or because of his own twisted personality engaged in treasonous behavior — behavior that violates his oath of office to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” Trump vacated that oath today, and Republicans can no longer run and hide from that fact. Every single Republican lawmaker will be — and should be — asked on the election trail: Are you with Trump and Putin or are you with the C.I.A., F.B.I. and N.S.A.?

Former C.I.A. director John O. Brennan’s tweet after the news conference:

“Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of ‘high crimes & misdemeanors.’ It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin. Republican Patriots: Where are you?"

Ike and Trump would agree on many things including the danger of the swamp. Ike warned about the military industrial complex. They are very similar. Only the swamp propaganda against Trump gives the illusion of a difference.

The difference between Eisenhower and Trump is an "illusion"? Offhand I do not recall Eisenhower discussing the size of his penis .

[Zagadka]

"My people came to me, Dan Coats came to me, some others, they said they think it's Russia," Trump said at the news conference. "I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia"

Trump's argument is LITERALLY "the defendant says he's innocent, so... case closed."

I'm at a loss for words.

[Owsley]

Dwight D. Eisenhower was the last good Republican president.

He uttered these words

“Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

He built the Interstate Highway System, expanded Social Security, increased the minimum wage, protected unions etc., while the aim of Republicans of today is to destroy all that.

The Texas oil millionaires took over a once respectable political party...

[jimjam]

Trump's argument is LITERALLY "the defendant says he's innocent, so... case closed."

I'm at a loss for words.

That very thing boggled me. Trump's acceptance of Putin's claims of innocence apparently ride on the premise that if Vladimir had in fact approved of Russia's cyber war on America he would have said something like, "Gee Don, I did it on a whim but, I'm deeply sorry." If Donald is really that dumb and deluded ……. God save America.

I'm sure that Donald's so called "base" is too fucking dumb to notice this troublesome "nuance".

[Godstud]

It's nice to know that Canada is such a security risk, but that America has a new best friend forever in Russia, who totally did nothing to America during the election. Putin said so, so it must be true.