[SpecialOlympian]

I don't see Sunzoo denying that the army was just basically one giant man on man orgy

[One Degree]

It appears the evidence clearly indicates we should require all gays to serve lengthy terms of military service.

[Pants-of-dog]

I would not call it odd, just confusing to satisfy military necessity and civilian liberal demands. US civilians have a hard time understanding the military can not be a democracy, but they keep complicating things with their idealism. So the courts and legislative branches give cosmetic assurances to the public.

From a Democracy point of view the majority decides what is correct.

Your writing is so vague and poorly done that I have no idea what "it" is here.

Do you mean the double standard?

If so, please provide evidence that it exists. Thank you.

---------------

Then you always seem to choose the wrong side of the debate and never attempt to prove that your side is right. Your tactic seems to always demand proof from others without giving any proof yourself. I am pretty sure you would never pretend to be a Creationist, because that is the right side. That certainly would not fit your m.o.

You are adding nothing to the discussion. Please stop with the personal attacks and stick to the topic. Thank you.

[One Degree]

Your writing is so vague and poorly done that I have no idea what "it" is here.

Do you mean the double standard?

If so, please provide evidence that it exists. Thank you.

---------------



You are adding nothing to the discussion. Please stop with the personal attacks and stick to the topic. Thank you.

I viewed our exchanges as a fun game to pass the time. Now that I see my 'writing style ' upsets you, I will no longer bother you.

[Igor Antunov]

[Pants-of-dog]

I viewed our exchanges as a fun game to pass the time. Now that I see my 'writing style ' upsets you, I will no longer bother you.

Your writing style does not upset me.

It just does not communicate very well.

Are you going to provide evidence that the US military does not support equality among the troops?

[MB.]

There is this really astonishing tendency on the right to label what is frankly exhaustion at refuting inaccuracy as invariably a victory for the person making the inaccurate claim. Usually they'll say something like this, in typical last-wordist fashion,

"I guess my logic and reason must have hurt your feelings!"
"Looks like you're upset! Haha! I was only playing with you."
"If you're really interested in debate, you'd listen to my opinion!"
"Not an argument!"

Like I said, exhausting since there are so many people who do this.

[One Degree]

There is this really astonishing tendency on the right to label what is frankly exhaustion at refuting inaccuracy as invariably a victory for the person making the inaccurate claim. Usually they'll say something like this, in typical last-wordist fashion,

"I guess my logic and reason must have hurt your feelings!"
"Looks like you're upset! Haha! I was only playing with you."
"If you're really interested in debate, you'd listen to my opinion!"
"Not an argument!"

Like I said, exhausting since there are so many people who do this.

WTF? You butt in making emotional accusations about a personal interaction you know nothing about.

[MB.]

Not seeing any argument here, One Degree. I'd hoped my observation wouldn't hurt your feelings, but I guess you're not really interested in debate. Don't worry, I was only playing with you.

[One Degree]

Not seeing any argument here, One Degree. I'd hoped my observation wouldn't hurt your feelings, but I guess you're not really interested in debate. Don't worry, I was only playing with you.

I should not waste my time explaining to someone who obviously has a hidden grudge. I will assume you previously went by another name. Such childishness.

Pod attempts to get me to commit logical fallacies. I try to avoid his traps. Sometimes it is a fun game to play to pass the time. You see, your insults were totally uncalled for because they were irrelevant. My comments had nothing to do with the connotation you tried to give them.

[Pants-of-dog]

I should not waste my time explaining to someone who obviously has a hidden grudge. I will assume you previously went by another name. Such childishness.

Pod attempts to get me to commit logical fallacies. I try to avoid his traps. Sometimes it is a fun game to play to pass the time. You see, your insults were totally uncalled for because they were irrelevant. My comments had nothing to do with the connotation you tried to give them.

You made a claim. Or at least, I assume you did, since your writing is very unclear.

Did you or did you not claim that the military need not and does not subscribe to the same egalitarian principles as the rest of the US government?

If so, please provide evidence.

If not, please restate your claim clearly.

[MB.]

@Pants-of-dog Because our laws say people in the military must be treated equitably, but it is up to the military how they do this based upon the unique situation of military personnel. So, it is a military decision. The Supreme Court could conceivably rule against the military in a specific case, but very unlikely to change things overall with our current court. The military can make this decision.

Edit: The military is considered to have more leeway in this than the states, by our laws.

So besides the fact that it's now been revealed that Trump tweeted about this without consulting the military and in fact did so simply to end debate on the subject, can we dismiss the illusion that this was anything other than ideological red meat for Trump's anti-gay base?

In fact this action is really stupid since it will harm the military by forcing this issue into the open and through the countless lawsuits that will result.

So I'd like to see the Trump apologists explain why they defend this action, which will clearly harm the United States in the long run, if it is implemented at all, which may be impossible.

Furthermore, why would you believe what Donald Trump is tweeting? Jesus guys I mean, he's a serial liar and he obviously doesn't know much or anything really about the military. This is the guy who said he wanted steam catapults rather than EMLS on the Gerald Ford class.

[SpecialOlympian]

So I'd like to see the Trump apologists explain why they defend this action, which will clearly harm the United States in the long run, if it is implemented at all, which may be impossible.

No. Let's talk about Hillary instead.

[Hong Wu]

"I get stressed about which bathroom I'm allowed to use but I'm totally qualified to go into combat and kill or be killed, or be subjected to bombings or sieges, or face the prospect (or reality) of being captured and tortured."

Another reddit wrote recently, a conservative goes from fact to identity (have a penis, so male; go to Church, so Christian) whereas a liberal does the opposite. Am a woman, therefore remove penis, am a progressive, therefore never stop supporting the latest fad.

[SpecialOlympian]

Thanks for telling us what Reddit idiots think.

Also I dunno I think the military is kind of an authority on who is allowed to go into combat and who isn't but hey let's ask reddit, those guys are really smart. You always look really smart when you cite shit from reddit/4chan, so let's listen to them.

[Hong Wu]

Thanks for telling us what Reddit idiots think.

Also I dunno I think the military is kind of an authority on who is allowed to go into combat and who isn't but hey let's ask reddit, those guys are really smart. You always look really smart when you cite shit from reddit/4chan, so let's listen to them.

So you're actually suggesting that a majority of the military want transgendered service members fighting alongside them?

[SpecialOlympian]

Who cares what the fuck soldiers think? The military is an authoritarian hierarchy by nature. They have determined transgender recruits can serve and have assigned them to whatever roles they are qualified for. If that happens to be a combat role then so fucking be it. You know there are chefs and data analysts and press people and all sorts of shit in the military, right? That's a thing I would normally assume someone would know.

Like what point are you trying to make? Do you think a soldier is going to react like this:

"Ughhhh we're under fire but I'm not gonna pass some ammo to that fucking queer because they'll think I'm hitting on them."

[Hong Wu]

Who cares what the fuck soldiers think? The military is an authoritarian hierarchy by nature. They have determined transgender recruits can serve and have assigned them to whatever roles they are qualified for. If that happens to be a combat role then so fucking be it. You know there are chefs and data analysts and press people and all sorts of shit in the military, right? That's a thing I would normally assume someone would know.

Like what point are you trying to make? Do you think a soldier is going to react like this:

"Ughhhh we're under fire but I'm not gonna pass some ammo to that fucking queer because they'll think I'm hitting on them."

Lol, it's called morale. What the soldiers want is kind of important. They aren't slaves. It's literally one of the most important things about any military, what are you going to do, hand them weapons and then start whipping them?

[Pants-of-dog]

Lol, it's called morale. What the soldiers want is kind of important. They aren't slaves. It's literally one of the most important things about any military, what are you going to do, hand them weapons and then start whipping them?

While I understand why you think US soldiers are a bunch of wimps who would be unnerved by the presence of trans people in their army, this exact question was studied when Obama was thinking of lifting the ban on trans people.

The findings are here:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1530.html

Previous Integration Efforts and the Experiences of Foreign Militaries Indicate a Minimal Likely Impact on Force Readiness
The limited research on the effects of foreign military policies indicates little or no impact on unit cohesion, operational effectiveness, or readiness. Commanders noted that the policies had benefits for all service members by creating a more inclusive and diverse force.
Policy changes to open more roles to women and to allow gay and lesbian personnel to serve openly in the U.S. military have similarly had no significant effect on unit cohesion, operational effectiveness, or readiness.

So, it appears that soldiers are not as affected by the presence of trans people as you think they are.

[SpecialOlympian]

"Having to be in proximity to trans people makes me sad. Guess I'll just roll over and die and wait for an insurgent to shoot me. Or, wait, I'm so angry I could topple the US government and then me and my buddies will install Reddit as president! It's coup time, bitches!"

-What Hong Wu thinks military people will do, if they continue with their current policies, apparently.