Trump Refers DACA to Legislature for a Permanent Fix - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14841279
An illegal immigrant and a non citizen are not the same thing. I am not even questioning the legal ground, but the stupidity of any country that would consider protecting people who sneak into their country illegally. Idiots.
#14841282
Beren wrote:I'm sure they are hardworking people with great work ethics worthy of being employed by anyone for a proper wage.

Once I had a Philippine girl as a colleague employed as a cleaner in an airport lounge. She was the best of all.


Don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not. MY point is that if you’re arguing that we must have immigrants so we can pay them less than native American workers, I’d submit the practice is grotesque. I will listen to the argument that there are jobs that American kids simply will not do because they have been told throughout their life that they are “better” than that; better than being the coatcheck girl at a county club, better than being a caddy at the same club, better than being the groundskeeper, the valet or heaven forbid; the pool boy. Simply put; you adjust to market conditions. If $10 per hour isn’t enough to lure Jenny and Johnny off the couch; you have to pay more. The club down the street is facing the same pressure so you’re not going to be priced out of the market by charging $11.50 for the rubber chicken served in the clubhouse.
#14841289
4cal wrote:Don’t know if you’re being sarcastic or not.

Is it you asking me that after you said couch potatoes should be employed for a proper wage rather than employing immigrants used to actual work for a significantly lower wage? Some of you just seem to have forgotten how capitalism made your country great. No, I'm completely serious.
#14841299
Beren wrote:Is it you asking me that after you said couch potatoes should be employed for a proper wage rather than employing immigrants used to actual work for a significantly lower wage? Some of you just seem to have forgotten how capitalism made your country great. No, I'm completely serious.


What does country mean to you? If we do not enforce borders then what the fuck is a country?
#14841349
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:The absurdity of arguments like this is truly remarkable. After pushing for tolerance for and accommodation of illegal immigrants and partially succeeding, the cost that people like you have imposed on society is then used as an argument against deportation. And ridiculously, this isn't the only area where this type of reasoning is used. It has been invoked with respect to law enforcement too, where illegals are now apparently critical in solving crimes and need to feel safe to come forward.

This is another reason why programmes like DACA need to be opposed. They serve as a springboard for future arguments along the same lines, whereby the left will use the negative consequences that their policies have caused to argue in favour of more of the same policies.


First of all, I do not see this as an argument against deportation, as I am not arguing against deportation. I simply find it humourous that the anti-immigration crowd is shooting itself in the proverbial foot by getting rid of the immigrants that they have already spent the most money on and have received the least benefit from.

Secondly, I and people like me have not imposed this cost on anyone. If my people actually made policy, there would be almost no immigration and the developing world would be much richer. If you wish to blame someone, blame the US government and the lobbyists who maintain a porous border and hire illegals.
#14841362
Pants-of-dog wrote:
First of all, I do not see this as an argument against deportation, as I am not arguing against deportation. I simply find it humourous that the anti-immigration crowd is shooting itself in the proverbial foot by getting rid of the immigrants that they have already spent the most money on and have received the least benefit from.

Secondly, I and people like me have not imposed this cost on anyone. If my people actually made policy, there would be almost no immigration and the developing world would be much richer. If you wish to blame someone, blame the US government and the lobbyists who maintain a porous border and hire illegals.

I don't think it makes sense to call this shooting oneself in the foot, since the cost accrued because of policies that the same people opposed in the first place. In fact, the costs of illegal migration is one of the reasons why we are against it. As mentioned earlier, if there was a guarantee that an amnesty for people like the "dreamers" was a one off, after which immigration laws are actually enforced and if necessary updated to prevent a repetition of the same problem in the future, this wouldn't be much of an issue. It's pretty clear by now that this is not an option and probably never was, as any leniency today firstly proves that there is a reluctance to act once people are already in the country and secondly raises expectations of more leniency in the future, thereby creating an incentive for illegal migrants.

My apologies for lumping you in with what is considered the left today. It's often convenience and sometimes laziness on my part rather than a claim that you personally agree with all or even most policies put forward by the left. I will generally accept that being on the right puts me in a group that also contains neo-nazis and KKK members, so when I speak in generalities I simply apply the same standard to the left. That said, it can certainly make sense to point out sub-groups and their differences and you are obviously right to point them out when I misrepresent your position.
#14841373
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:I don't think it makes sense to call this shooting oneself in the foot, since the cost accrued because of policies that the same people opposed in the first place. In fact, the costs of illegal migration is one of the reasons why we are against it. As mentioned earlier, if there was a guarantee that an amnesty for people like the "dreamers" was a one off, after which immigration laws are actually enforced and if necessary updated to prevent a repetition of the same problem in the future, this wouldn't be much of an issue. It's pretty clear by now that this is not an option and probably never was, as any leniency today firstly proves that there is a reluctance to act once people are already in the country and secondly raises expectations of more leniency in the future, thereby creating an incentive for illegal migrants.


Well, in the USA, it seems that the discussion cannot be split into two sides: pro and anti immigration. There are many sides: Republican, Democrat, employers of illegals, the illegals themselves, the unions, etc. They all have their own agendas, and many of them differ.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that more than one faction can agree on is that they want the border to stay porous, and they want to keep illegals illegal. And they want this because this is how they supply themselves with a cheap labour pool.

So when I am talking about the people who shot themselves in the foot, I am discussing the coalition of factions whose interest lies in exploiting this labour underclass to profit themsleves, as this is a situation where the migrants being deported and Mexico have profited at the expense of those who wanted to exploit em for cheap labour.

My apologies for lumping you in with what is considered the left today. It's often convenience and sometimes laziness on my part rather than a claim that you personally agree with all or even most policies put forward by the left. I will generally accept that being on the right puts me in a group that also contains neo-nazis and KKK members, so when I speak in generalities I simply apply the same standard to the left. That said, it can certainly make sense to point out sub-groups and their differences and you are obviously right to point them out when I misrepresent your position.


No worries, K. I kinda did the same thing lumping several groups together to make my point. And your unimportant mistake helped clarify the other positions of the left.

And besides, I am progressive as well as leftist, so many people assume I am a "left-liberal"

Besides, I will forgive a lot from you, as you are one of the anti-immigration people who is clearly not racist.
#14841403
Beren wrote:Is it you asking me that after you said couch potatoes should be employed for a proper wage rather than employing immigrants used to actual work for a significantly lower wage? Some of you just seem to have forgotten how capitalism made your country great. No, I'm completely serious.


Probably a poor choice of words on my part.

What I meant was youth that have been fairly coddled most of their life and told that they are “better than” doing manual or low-skilled jobs. “Couch Potatoes” (the term I used) wasn’t very accurate.
#14841484
Obama: 'Problem ... Is I'm Not the Emperor of the United States'



DACA was unlawful" Sean Hannity SCHOOLS Jorge Ramos on DACA Termination by President Trump



Tucker Carlson Reacts To Trump Ending DACA



"DACA is illegal" John Fredericks SCHOOLS Don Lemon on Trump ending DACA



DACA was illegal, UNCONSTITUTIONAL - Obama said so

#14841687
Pants-of-dog wrote:Well, in the USA, it seems that the discussion cannot be split into two sides: pro and anti immigration. There are many sides: Republican, Democrat, employers of illegals, the illegals themselves, the unions, etc. They all have their own agendas, and many of them differ.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that more than one faction can agree on is that they want the border to stay porous, and they want to keep illegals illegal. And they want this because this is how they supply themselves with a cheap labour pool.

So when I am talking about the people who shot themselves in the foot, I am discussing the coalition of factions whose interest lies in exploiting this labour underclass to profit themsleves, as this is a situation where the migrants being deported and Mexico have profited at the expense of those who wanted to exploit em for cheap labour.

Fair enough. Those that thought that they would benefit in some way, and I would include here the "demography is destiny" faction among the left, will obviously lose out. That's assuming that people will actually be deported. As the thread title says, all Trump has done so far is referring this back to congress and giving them six months to fix it, while from the responses you'd think that "dreamers" were being rounded up and deported as we speak.

Pants-of-dog wrote:No worries, K. I kinda did the same thing lumping several groups together to make my point. And your unimportant mistake helped clarify the other positions of the left.

And besides, I am progressive as well as leftist, so many people assume I am a "left-liberal"

Besides, I will forgive a lot from you, as you are one of the anti-immigration people who is clearly not racist.

By today's standards I'm not only racist but sexist and islamophobe too, so I appreciate you saying that. :)
#14841717
Democrats Backpedal On Immigration Reform Proposed By Trump



You Can Pick Up, Move to Canada' CNN Chris Cuomo SPARS with Ric Grenell over Immigration Reform



DONALD TRUMP DID THE RIGHT THING BY ENDING DACA, SO WHATS THE PLAN FOR THE DEMOCRATS NOW ?



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