[Godstud]

Why can't you, you confirming the stereotype that whites always lie.

Lying is a human condition. No one colour does it more than the others. Stop this bullshit talk. It's a false "sterotype" and racist bullshit.

Address the topic. Many "white people" are supporting the NFL and players on 'taking a knee', and the reasons for it.

[Libertarian353]

Lying is a human condition. No one colour does it more than the others. Stop this bullshit talk. It's a false "sterotype" and racist bullshit.

I playing psychology on him. Apparently he's not into "reverse" for some reason.

[Stormsmith]

Lying is a human condition. No one colour does it more than the others. Stop this bullshit talk. It's a false "sterotype" and racist bullshit.

Really? Orange is head and shoulders above all other colours by my count

Address the topic. Many "white people" are supporting the NFL and players on 'taking a knee', and the reasons for it.

If America would just clean the police force and treat everyone the same this would just go *poof* away.

[Doug64]

:lol: Let me guess republican? So predictable. Well I'll give you this, when america learns how to treat it's citizens right, then they won't have to kneel. Why enforce our tyranny to them? Killing Blacks will make Blacks want to join ISIS or commit race wars. Whites are breaking up US.

If you'll look at actual crime statistics, you'll see that the large majority of murdered Blacks are killed by other Blacks. But acknowledging that the cause of that bloodbath lies in their own communities rather than rioting about "racist" cops is just too hard for all too many to wrap their minds around, I guess.

None of which has anything to do with showing disrespect for the symbol of the country as a whole, them as well. And that disrespect is having an understandable impact on the customer base -- or rather, ever-growing former customer base. There are plenty of ways to protest the supposed "racist cop epidemic" without pissing off the people ultimately responsible for your paycheck.

[Libertarian353]

If you'll look at actual crime statistics, you'll see that the large majority of murdered Blacks are killed by other Blacks.

Dur Hur "What about Black on Black crime" if the fbi gives out these stats it's fake news. Remember the lie in 9/11 and trump colliding with Russia? All FBI reports, all fake news to cause racial tension and not make america great. If you're willing to accept the kool aid from the Government, you must accept that trump is a criminal and a traitor.

None of which has anything to do with showing disrespect for the symbol of the country as a whole, them as well.

Any president that calls nazis good people; any republicans or patriots that waves that confederate flag. Any man that condones the deaths of minorities and even poor whites through war and drugs, have no right to call those NFL players disrespectful. Why should Blacks stand for that rag of sin? I say burn it all.

Who are you to tell them that they're disrespectful, they don't owe you a God damn thing. The fact that they haven't killed us yet, proves that there is a God.

[Hong Wu]

Apparently Papa John's renegotiated its focused advertising contract with the NFL, calling it an "example of bad leadership" and blaming them for a 6% drop in pizza sales in the middle of a strongly growing economy. This may be related to my observation that patriotic fans are the ones with more disposable income.

[Doug64]

Dur Hur "What about Black on Black crime" if the fbi gives out these stats it's fake news.

Just to show what the "fake news" from the FBI you're rejecting is, according to the FBI in 2016 2,870 Blacks were murdered, of which the race of the killers were:

• Black: 2,570 (89.5%)
• White: 243 (8.5%)
• Other: 17 (0.6%)
• Unknown: 40 (1.4%)

For Whites, in 2016 there were 3,499 murders of which the race of the killers were:

• White: 2,854 (81.5%)
• Black: 533 (15.2%)
• Other: 40 (1.1%)
• Unknown: 72 (2%)

So Whites, with a 2015 estimated percentage of the population of 73.6%, committed 8.5% of the murders of Blacks -- a ratio of one murder per 958,613 Whites. Meanwhile Blacks, with an estimated 12.6% of the population, committed 15.2% of the murders of Whites -- a ratio of one murder per 74,874 Blacks. All in all, if you want to claim there's a race war it looks more like Blacks attacking Whites rather than the other way around.

As for police shootings, according to the Washington Post in 2016 police killed a total of 963 people, of which 233 (24%) were Black, almost twice their percentage of the population -- but 26% of Blacks also live in poverty, compared to 10% of Whites, and a higher rate of urban poverty at that. The officer(s) involved were identified in 30% of the cases where the victims were Black, but the race of the officers weren't included.

[Libertarian353]

[Pants-of-dog]

If you'll look at actual crime statistics, you'll see that the large majority of murdered Blacks are killed by other Blacks. But acknowledging that the cause of that bloodbath lies in their own communities rather than rioting about "racist" cops is just too hard for all too many to wrap their minds around, I guess.

So, cops should be allowed to shoot unarmed black people because black on black violence exists?

Or are you just trying to excuse the behaviour of these cops by claiming others do it too?

None of which has anything to do with showing disrespect for the symbol of the country as a whole, them as well. And that disrespect is having an understandable impact on the customer base -- or rather, ever-growing former customer base. There are plenty of ways to protest the supposed "racist cop epidemic" without pissing off the people ultimately responsible for your paycheck.

This has nothing to do with “disrespecting the flag”. It is about police killing unarmed black people and getting away with it. For you to ignore that and focus on how the argument is presented is a logical fallacy called tone policing.

[Hong Wu]

I still think that Black Lives Matter is subconsciously about wanting the welfare granted by white people to end so that they can go through the necessarily difficult and painful process of fixing themselves. Having police withdraw from black areas or for them to stop using violence in areas with a higher incidence of violent crime just aren't policies that anyone could take seriously.

Of course, it does seem like most of BLM is trolling white-hating SJWs (who are themselves mostly white) looking for something they can permissibly be critical about.

[Doug64]

So, cops should be allowed to shoot unarmed black people because black on black violence exists?

Or are you just trying to excuse the behaviour of these cops by claiming others do it too?

No, I’m saying that, taking relative poverty levels into account, when it comes to cop killings it seems that cops aren’t singling out Blacks for special attention because they are Black. Which means that the entire argument that the police are a fundamentally racist institution (as opposed to having a few racists among them like everyone else) — the basic position of BLM — is wrong.

This has nothing to do with “disrespecting the flag”. It is about police killing unarmed black people and getting away with it. For you to ignore that and focus on how the argument is presented is a logical fallacy called tone policing.

You mean like how our Daily Prophets make Trump’s tweets all about the insults and ignore the meat of what he’s saying? As soon as the NFL players chose to disrespect the flag and so the nation it represents as a means of protest, they made it about their actions. If they want to raise awareness of their cause, then they should avoid making themselves the issue. And in the process, they might avoid losing money — having advertisers losing money because of their actions doesn’t exactly maintain the financial health of their businesses.

[Drlee]

You mean like how our Daily Prophets make Trump’s tweets all about the insults and ignore the meat of what he’s saying? As soon as the NFL players chose to disrespect the flag and so the nation it represents as a means of protest, they made it about their actions. If they want to raise awareness of their cause, then they should avoid making themselves the issue. And in the process, they might avoid losing money — having advertisers losing money because of their actions doesn’t exactly maintain the financial health of their businesses.

You are like a parrot. YOU want to make this about some imagined disrespect for our nation. This is small minded and dangerous. There is no end to proclaiming your political opponents unpatriotic. Trying to change our country to the better IS patriotic. There is no requirement for the person trying to be absolutely correct in their methods. We are supposed to take the problem and work together for a solution. I agree that this method is poor. I outlines what I think these powerful and rich athletes ought to do. But simply whining because the president tweeted about this is childish.

And about these tweets. There is no depth behind them. They are tactical actions to keep his small base energized. I am surprised that you believe that the leader of the free world should post such nonsense everyday. He is playing you for a fool. He know he can make you dance without playing the whole song. You should be insulted.

[Zagadka]

Some people seem to be content with holding superficial actions more important than actual intent. They like the shiny patriotic flag waving without giving a care to why anyone would protest (in our free liberal democracy).

[Hong Wu]

You are like a parrot. YOU want to make this about some imagined disrespect for our nation. This is small minded and dangerous. There is no end to proclaiming your political opponents unpatriotic. Trying to change our country to the better IS patriotic. There is no requirement for the person trying to be absolutely correct in their methods. We are supposed to take the problem and work together for a solution. I agree that this method is poor. I outlines what I think these powerful and rich athletes ought to do. But simply whining because the president tweeted about this is childish.

And about these tweets. There is no depth behind them. They are tactical actions to keep his small base energized. I am surprised that you believe that the leader of the free world should post such nonsense everyday. He is playing you for a fool. He know he can make you dance without playing the whole song. You should be insulted.

Dough is one of the few quality posters on this forum. In comparison you are just a shrill voice right now.

[Godstud]

Dough is one of the few quality posters on this forum. In comparison you are just a shrill voice right now.

When all you want is confirmation bias, then of course you're going to like people who only say what you want to hear.

[Drlee]

Dough is one of the few quality posters on this forum. In comparison you are just a shrill voice right now.

He just as sold out as you are. His post was shallow and wrong headed. His notion of patriotism distorted and certainly not anything the founders would have supported.

Keep in mind that the US was founded by malcontents and traitors. They, of all people, understood unpopular positions and breaking political eggs. Compared to what they did this puny protest is child's play.

Do you see George Washington or Thomas Jefferson publicly railing against the actions of people engaging in personal protest? Do you see them "tweeting" "Crooked Thomas" or "lock him up"?

Get over yourself. I will call out ignorance whenever I see it. Get used to that.

[Zagadka]

Nah, they just shot each other occasionally. Wish that happened now.

[Drlee]

It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.1 Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 17872

[Doug64]

You are like a parrot. YOU want to make this about some imagined disrespect for our nation.

I'm hardly the only one. Beyond the ad revenue decline in part because of the players' attacks on the symbol of our country, there's people like this:

Saints defend team's support of military after vet declines award

METAIRIE, La. -- The New Orleans Saints released a statement Thursday saying it is "unfortunate and disappointing" that a retired Navy commander who declined an honor at Sunday's game has been telling media outlets he no longer supports NFL football because of player protests throughout the league before and during the national anthem.

"We will not allow Mr. [John] Wells' decision and subsequent media appearances to distract our players and organization from continuing to honor and support our military and veterans," the Saints said in their statement, which stressed the organization's "unwavering 50-plus year commitment to honor, support and recognize our servicemen and women and veterans."

In the statement, the Saints also emphasized their players have stood for the anthem in every game since the franchise's inception in 1967, with the exception of "the Week Three game at Carolina when a few of our players did sit."

Since then, Saints players have chosen to kneel before the anthem in a display of unity, then stand during the anthem. Still, many fans have booed the kneeling players inside the Superdome even though the booing has not taken place during the anthem.

Saints safety Kenny Vaccaro and defensive end Cameron Jordan touched upon this on their Twitter accounts Thursday, with Vaccaro writing, "Our crowd boos us before the anthem, therefore it's not about the flag, it's about the fact we are bringing awareness to a cause that makes people uncomfortable."

Jordan tweeted about how fans have "ignored" the reason behind the player protests.

Wells, who is the executive director of the national Military Veterans Advocacy in Slidell, Louisiana, was selected as a Peoples Health Champion, an award given at Saints home games to recognize "the exceptional achievements of Louisiana residents age 65 and older."

However, Wells declined the honor, calling the protests during the anthem a "slap in the face to veterans" in a news release and saying he could not "in good conscience" enter an NFL stadium.

"Although I am touched and honored to be selected for such an award, the ongoing controversy with NFL players' disrespect for the national flag forces me to decline to participate in the presentation," Wells said according to the release. "Since this award is tainted with the dishonorable actions of the NFL and its players, I cannot accept it."

The Saints released their lengthy statement in response on Thursday afternoon:


"Respectfully and honorably, we chose Mr. Wells for the Peoples Health Champion Award purposefully for this game to bring to light the exact issues that he and his organization represent -- the health and well-being of our military, veterans and their families. Unfortunately, he has chosen very publicly not to accept this honor and refused the opportunity to promote the very cause for which he was being honored and distract from awareness we hoped to build throughout our community. We respect his decision, he has that right, and we thank him for his service to our country and his past efforts on behalf of the military and veterans."

The Saints went on to list the community appearances and financial commitments the team has made to military and related organizations, and to stress that owner Tom Benson -- a former Naval officer -- has been honored and recognized as a longtime supporter of the military. They said they would use the time at Sunday's game that had been allotted for Wells' award to "highlight non-political military advocacy programs and encourage our fans and community to join us in contributing to these groups who directly support our military and veterans."

And this:

Refs walk off in protest after players kneel during anthem at N.J. football game

Two high school football officials walked off the field in protest Friday night after players from Monroe High School in Middlesex County knelt during the national anthem before the team’s game against visiting Colts Neck.

The officials, Ernie Lunardelli, 54, and his son, Anthony Lunardelli, 27, stood for the anthem and then abruptly left the field after seeing the players kneeling. Their spots on the five-person crew were filled by junior cadet officials at the game, Ernie Lunardelli said.

“I’m not in favor of anyone disrespecting our country, our flag, the armed forces,” Ernie Lunardelli told NJ Advance Media Saturday afternoon. “What they’re protesting has nothing to do with the national anthem and I’m against it, so I decided to protest for them kneeling and that’s what I did.”

Ernie Lunardelli said weeks ago he informed the officials assigner for the Greater Middlesex Conference, Thomas Paulikas, that he would walk off the field if any players knelt for the anthem before his games.

“Whoever is disrespecting that flag and the national anthem, that’s who I have a problem with,” Lunardelli said. “That’s my protest. I don’t care if it’s a baby, if it’s an 80-year-old man, anybody. I don’t care. Any race, color, I don’t care who it is. It’s not the way I was brought up and it pisses me off that people are doing that.”

Paulikas declined comment when reached by phone Saturday.

Lunardelli, meanwhile, said he and his son were unassigned from working Saturday’s game between Spotswood and Raritan.

After Lunardelli and his son left, they were replaced by two cadets who were already assigned to work on the chain crew for the game. Lunardelli alleged Saturday the game is not official because the cadets did not have proper certification or training.

“That game should not count now because they did not have the right personnel on the field,” Lunardelli said. “These kids weren’t officially carded and trained, so they’re putting the kids in jeopardy, I’m not.”

Monroe athletic director Greg Beyer declined comment when reached by phone Saturday. State officials assigner Carmine Picardo also declined to discuss the situation, saying he “did not know what could happen” based on the protest by the Lunardellis.

Colts Neck went on to defeat Monroe, 18-13.

“I have a lawyer already set up because they’re not going to run me out of town,” Lunardelli said. “They’re going to try to blackball me. I know what’s going to happen.”

High school football players from New Jersey teams such as Woodrow Wilson in Camden, Barringer in Newark and Penns Grove in Salem County knelt last season in protest of social injustices. This season, players from Monroe have knelt before games.

There is nothing in New Jersey statue, code or case law that addresses kneeling during the national anthem at football games, and last year there were no reports of suspensions or other punishments after players knelt. If a public school student was punished for kneeling, it is unlikely the punishment would survive a lawsuit, experts say.

Meanwhile, the state’s governing body for high school sports, the New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, has no rules regarding the national anthem. But NJSIAA assistant director Jack DuBois said Saturday described Friday’s situation at Monroe as highly unusual.

“I’ve been involved in high school athletics for 48 years and I’ve never seen or heard of an official leaving a game in any sport,” DuBois said. “I don’t think it would be appropriate to comment about what transpired without know exactly what happened and why. I can tell you this will be investigated by both the Central Jersey chapter and our office.”

News of Lunardelli’s protest was first reported by mycentraljersey.com.

Lunardelli expressed anger Saturday over the kneeling movement that began last year with former San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick and spread across most levels of sports. The silent protests were meant to draw attention to racial inequality and police brutality against people of color in the United States.

“What hurts the most is these kids don’t even know why they’re kneeling,” he said. “I just don’t understand why this is happening, especially at the high school level. If you’re not happy with being in America, go somewhere else. It’s that simple.”

There is no end to proclaiming your political opponents unpatriotic. Trying to change our country to the better IS patriotic.

Yes, trying to change our country for the better is patriotic. No, attacking the symbol of the entire, united country is not patriotic. A positive goal does not validate whatever means are used to pursue it.

There is no requirement for the person trying to be absolutely correct in their methods. We are supposed to take the problem and work together for a solution. I agree that this method is poor. I outlines what I think these powerful and rich athletes ought to do. But simply whining because the president tweeted about this is childish.

Hey, we agree on something. Offending millions of fans by disrespecting the symbol of the country they love is a stupid way to try to get them to take your cause seriously.

And about these tweets. There is no depth behind them. They are tactical actions to keep his small base energized. I am surprised that you believe that the leader of the free world should post such nonsense everyday. He is playing you for a fool. He know he can make you dance without playing the whole song. You should be insulted.

Again, I pretty much agree, they are as shallow, nonsensical, and pointless as these players disrespecting the flag at their games. The players can't possibly think their grandstanding is going to change any minds, so they must be virtue signaling to those that already agree with them. Just like Trump.

[Godstud]

Taking a knee is not disrespectful. Your whole argument goes out the window and is shown for the absolute shallow bullshit it actually is, when you understand this. The players are not fucking around, singing different songs, or other bullshit. Taking a knee is about as respectful a protest as you can get, in America.. They aren't pissing on a flag or any other such nonsense.

Talk about PC... just because a few fuckwits get their feelings hurt by some men kneeing on one knee during an anthem, is not justification for the stupidity I see in America, today.

Americans are dumb, and the worst snowflakes around are those protesting this protest.