[Rancid]

I have no way to defend Trump, so I will bring up Hilary, Obama, and a bunch of other shit instead.

[Hindsite]

Maybe Hindsite thinks that the Civil War was a smart war. I don't know.

The South lost and the North won, so maybe not. I get the feeling that Hindsite is a Southern individual. Would it be smart to rewrite history and say that the South won the Civil War then? :?:

In my opinion, the Civil War should have never happened. Diplomacy with negotiations to prevent secession was the way to go in that case.
http://www.history.com/topics/american- ... /secession

"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States," the President said from his golf resort in Bedminster, N.J. "They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen."

Observers quickly related his remarks to President Harry S. Truman's fiery rhetoric in a statement 72 years ago, in which Truman announced toward the end of World War II that the U.S. had dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

In that statement, the President warned Japan to further "expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth," if they did not agree to end the war on U.S. terms.
http://time.com/4893220/trump-fire-fury ... rain-ruin/

[jimjam]

How is McCain a hero? He got shot down, and captured. Its not like he Torpedoed a Khilrati Battle Cruiser and brought the war home to the Cats.

In 1965 the Vietnamese forces introduced the SA-2 surface to air anti aircraft missiles to the battle. The SA-2 travels at about 3200 mph and downed 205 aircraft during the war. An SA-2 shot down McCain's plane.

I presume that, by your and Donald's measure, if McCain had stopped in mid flight or dodged the SA-2 with his name on it and, then, fought off the entire NV army and escaped with 2 broken arms and a broken leg he may have, just may have, qualified for "hero" status.

Certainly he was closer to being a hero than Donald who had 5 deferments including a "bone spur" ( )deferment used after his 4 student deferments ran out. Proving once again that rich boys do not have to go to war.

[Hindsite]

Perhaps, if General Douglas MacArthur had been allowed to continue his war, there would be no North Korean problem today.

WHY TRUMAN FIRED GENERAL MacARTHUR

BEGINNING OF “MacARTHUR’S WAR”
In 1947 he was designated Commander in Chief Far East Command. Upon the North Korean invasion of South Korea he was designated Commander, UN Command in the Far East, July, 1950. He had arrived in Japan in 1945 and operated out of the top floor of the Dai Ichi building where he ruled the reconstruction of bombed out Japan.

The Japanese crowds lined the streets to get a glimpse of him as he arrived at his office. Showing great humility, they were in awe of him since he arrived in 1945 as Viceroy. The Japanese press loved him, and life was good. He liked the preferential treatment and God like respect he received. It was inconceivable that another war was about to start in Korea, of all places.

MacArthur, who had done as he pleased his whole life, began talking of "marching to the Yalu". He did not yet know he was in a war he would not be allowed to win.

American troops after capturing the North Korean Capitol of Pyongyang were looking forward to the promised withdrawal to Japan and leave the cleanup to the South Koreans. MacArthur believed the North Korean military had fled into Manchuria. How wrong he was. Four infantry armies, three artillery divisions and an anti - aircraft regiment, 260,000 men, crossed the Yalu into North Korea. When asked for his evaluation of the military escalation, MacArthur downplayed the involvement. He became involved in a controversy with General Stratemeyer over B-29 bombing of Yalu bridges. He was again urging escalation. Tensions and tempers were rising over the proposed handling of the Chinese situation.

MacARTHUR CONTEMPLATES THE “BOMB.”
With the on-coming defeat a distinct possibility, talk of using the Atomic Bomb was making the rounds. Hoyt Vandenberg, speaking for the Air Force, suggested they were prepared to use it. MacArthur suggested a plan to use numerous bombs. The U.S. had a stockpile of nearly 300 air-burst bombs. Only President Truman could order them used. MacArthur insisted on bombing the Yalu power plants with multiple strikes by B-29s. Suggestions came from all services and every General offered his own plan. Headlines in all the papers gave the impression that MacArthur had already received the go-ahead after Truman said the U.S. was considering use of the Atomic weapon in connection with the war in Korea.

General Ridgway assumed more and more responsibility in decision making. The U.S., during a lull in the fighting, announced that negotiations might be possible with both sides separated by the 38th parallel. As usual MacArthur rejected the idea of a negotiated settlement. He continued to irritate Ridgway, however so far Ridgway had kept it to himself.

MacArthur continued to make statements that were contrary to not only Ridgway but to the official position of Washington, and specifically Truman. The Pentagon received his message, which infuriated many high ranking officials. Acheson said that MacArthur had "shot his mouth off" for the last time.

The next morning Truman awakened to the news of MacArthur's "sabotage". At that moment he could no longer tolerate his insubordination. Truman had considered firing MacArthur many times previous to this, but this was the last straw.

MacArthur's statements were causing consternation in Washington as was his insulting personal letter to Ridgway. His advice letter to the House of Representatives again infuriated everyone. The British Government called the letter the "most dangerous" of an "apparently unending series of indiscretions". They claimed it was another irresponsible statement without the authorization of the U.S. or any U.N. member government. The Foreign Secretary complained that MacArthur wanted a war with China, and his leadership could no longer be tolerated.

On Apr. 6 a meeting was held with Truman to determine how to get rid of MacArthur. Truman insisted "I'm going to fire the son of a bitch right now". MacArthur was ordered to turnover his command at once to Lt. General Ridgway. General Bradley warned Truman that if MacArthur heard about the orders before they reached him officially he might resign with an arrogant flair. Truman exclaimed "The son of a bitch isn't going to resign on me, I want him fired". MacArthur's dismissal was announced on late night radio:

"With deep regret I have concluded that General of the Army Douglas MacArthur is unable to give his wholehearted support to the policies of the U.S. Government and of the U.N. in matters pertaining to his official duties. In view of the specific responsibilities imposed upon me by the Constitution of the U.S. and the added responsibilities entrusted to me by the U.N. I have decided that I must make a change in command in the Far East. I have, therefore, relieved General MacArthur of his command and have designated Lt. Gen. Matthew Ridgway as his successor".

MacArthur accepted the unsurprising news impassively. He said that he had never disobeyed orders, and that his dismissal was a plot in Washington to weaken the American position in the Far East.

http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Why-Truman- ... rthur.html

At that time, China was no stronger than Japan was when we brought the leaders of Japan to their knees, with the use of two atomic bombs. If we had been willing to use our arsenal of bombs, which no other nation had at that time, America could have conquered the world. Praise the Lord. HalleluYah

[Oxymoron]

In 1965 the Vietnamese forces introduced the SA-2 surface to air anti aircraft missiles to the battle. The SA-2 travels at about 3200 mph and downed 205 aircraft during the war. An SA-2 shot down McCain's plane.

I presume that, by your and Donald's measure, if McCain had stopped in mid flight or dodged the SA-2 with his name on it and, then, fought off the entire NV army and escaped with 2 broken arms and a broken leg he may have, just may have, qualified for "hero" status.

Certainly he was closer to being a hero than Donald who had 5 deferments including a "bone spur" ( )deferment used after his 4 student deferments ran out. Proving once again that rich boys do not have to go to war.

He deserves praise for fighting in the war, but being captured is not and has never been viewed as a heroic act. Trump is not a hero, no one claimed he was.

[Hindsite]

He deserves praise for fighting in the war, but being captured is not and has never been viewed as a heroic act. Trump is not a hero, no one claimed he was.

I might consider McCain a hero, if he had escaped. But I have never heard that he even attempted to escape.

[Stormsmith]

He deserves praise for fighting in the war, but being captured is not and has never been viewed as a heroic act. Trump is not a hero, no one claimed he was.

His dad was a general. After serving several years in Hanoi Hilton, McCain was offered release. He stayed, saying he'd go home when they were all released. That's heroic.

[Hindsite]

His dad was a general. After serving several years in Hanoi Hilton, McCain was offered release. He stayed, saying he'd go home when they were all released. That's heroic.

If that is true, I still don't see anything heroic about staying there with his friends until they were all released. I might consider it unselfish, but not heroic. If one was in a Hilton, why be in a hurry to leave ones friends?

[Oxymoron]

His dad was a general. After serving several years in Hanoi Hilton, McCain was offered release. He stayed, saying he'd go home when they were all released. That's heroic.

Admiral I believe..I could be wrong. That is not heroic that is dumb.

[jimjam]

If one was in a Hilton, why be in a hurry to leave ones friends?

Please H.S. tell me you are not serious............

We all are entitled to our opinions. I consider McCain to be a hero of the highest order while Donald, who chooses to mock McCain with his usual simple minded hate mongering, is a draft dodger.

That's about as unpatriotic as it gets. It is obvious that Donald's "patriotism" is nothing but cheap rah-rah shit designed to play to his 30% base and divert attention from his shitty record and the various criminal investigations that are a regular staple in his life.

[Oxymoron]

Please H.S. tell me you are not serious............

We all are entitled to our opinions. I consider McCain to be a hero of the highest order while Donald, who chooses to mock McCain with his usual simple minded hate mongering, is a draft dodger.

That's about as unpatriotic as it gets. It is obvious that Donald's "patriotism" is nothing but cheap rah-rah shit designed to play to his 30% base and divert attention from his shitty record and the various criminal investigations that are a regular staple in his life.

How about the guy who flew many more missions then McCain, did not get shot down, who probably risked his life to give more close air support to the grunts fighting to the death? Why is that person not a hero? what is criteria for a hero?

[Hindsite]

Please H.S. tell me you are not serious............

We all are entitled to our opinions. I consider McCain to be a hero of the highest order while Donald, who chooses to mock McCain with his usual simple minded hate mongering, is a draft dodger.

That's about as unpatriotic as it gets. It is obvious that Donald's "patriotism" is nothing but cheap rah-rah shit designed to play to his 30% base and divert attention from his shitty record and the various criminal investigations that are a regular staple in his life.

Yeah, there was a little humor that i thought you might like. But the rumor about Trump being a draft dodger is totally false. I already addressed that allegation on here months ago. The investigations of Trump don't seem to be going anywhere. Maybe, that is because the Russian collusion thing is a made up story.

[ingliz]

unpatriotic

Trump had the opportunity to volunteer and the record speaks for itself that he did not.

[Suntzu]

I went through SERE school in '83, '84? At the time it was commanded by COL Nick Rowe. We were given piles of declassified reports on the conduct of POWS at the Hanoi Hilton.

First thing most pilots did when shot down was piss themselves. Most made to attempt to evade.

The commander of the Hanoi Hilton forbid escape attempt. Those who attempted to escape were ostracized or narced out.

Officers would even associate with the few enlisted who were at the Hanoi Hilton.

Rowe was a Special Forces officer held by the Vietcong for five years. He was a West Point graduate and wrote a book, Five Years to Freedom. He was forced to sign a confession during captivity and was treated with court martial on his return. McCain made a propaganda film that was broadcast to the Vietnamese and nothing was said.

Interestingly, he told us that if we were ever captured and escaped, when we got back first word out of our mouth, "I want to see my lawyer."

[Rich]

The problem as ever is the anti Nazi hate campaign. Despite a few endlessly repeated atrocities, the Nazi regime in WWII held allied POWs in quite liberal conditions compared to the Communists in Korea, Vietnam and other places. People get completely the wrong about what capture by the Communists meant. Because they imagine that the Nazis were evil but the Vietnamese Communists were freedom fighters. This was what was what was so wicked about Gunatanamo and waterboarding, it was a deliberate and cynical attempt by Cuckservatives to bring us down to the level of Communist and Muslim terrorists. George Bush had one overriding aim after 9/11, to stop Muslims from looking bad. Cuckservatives pretend to be outraged by 9/11 "Conspiracy" theories, but really they love them, anything that stops Americans from blaming in it on Muslims. Ho chi Ming was no Nationalist, he conspired with the French to massacre the Vietnamese nationalists.

[Decky]

The problem as ever is the anti Nazi hate campaign. Despite a few endlessly repeated atrocities, the Nazi regime in WWII held allied POWs in quite liberal conditions

The majority of allied POWs held by the axis were members of the red army and they were held in death camps. You are telling obvious lies.

[Rich]

:eh:

The majority of allied POWs held by the axis were members of the red army and they were held in death camps. You are telling obvious lies.

I was at fault, I was using strategy game convention, I meant the western allies. But my main point stands that the Germans mostly kept to the Geneva conventions on prisoners of war for nationals of signitrary countries. You are not even right about the lack of immigration problems, sure during the Holdomor, Mao's great leap forward famine and under Pol Pot immigration may not have been a problem, but in fact in many ethnic regions of the Soviet Union Stalin forced large scale immigration of other ethnic groups in order to keep the Soviet Unions workers and citizens divided. Much of the ethnic conflict since the collapse of the Soviet Union has been exacerbated by Stalin's legacy.

Workers who trust in Trump to look after their interests are stupid, but workers who trusted in Stalin were much, much stupider.(not sure about my grammar there )

[Buzz62]

Cute thread...
And what a pack of "butt-hurt, cry-babies".
Is Trumpy "unpatriotic"? I would say, he's about as patriotic as Hillary-Billary.
That means y'all got outwitted by a guy you all like to frame as a half-wit.

Enjoy that...

[jimjam]

But the rumor about Trump being a draft dodger is totally false. I already addressed that allegation on here months ago. The investigations of Trump don't seem to be going anywhere. Maybe, that is because the Russian collusion thing is a made up story.

"Totally false"? I agree that by calling Donald a draft dodger I am speculating and add that your claim that he was not a draft dodger contains just as much speculation. Donald had five deferrals. Four for being a student and one for "bone spurs". Between his second and third student deferrals he was briefly 1A (eligible for the draft). His medical exam at the time turned up no "bone spurs". Then, after his student deferrals ran out, the "bone spurs" appeared. Were there actually "bone spurs" on his feet? Possibly. Did Donald's daddy arrange for "bone spurs"? Possibly. Vietnam, like all wars before it, was, essentially, a rich man's war and a poor man's fight. It is common knowledge that rich boys do not have to fight in wars. Neither one of us can know "totally" what actually transpired. But, in view of historical realities and knowledge of Donald's history of being a serial liar, I will go with my point of view.

Russian collusion a made up story? A tad premature and presumptuous Mr. Mueller is hardly finished. Perhaps Mr. Mueller has let you into his confidence but such is not the case with myself. Time will tell.

[Buzz62]

be that as it may...he won.
i just luv watching libbies squeal...