Tainari88 wrote:Senor @SolarCross may I ask you a question? Before I go to bed? Tomorrow I will be back and hopefully you would have answered the question by then? A
question? You seem to have issues with counting, by my count that is 19 questions plus one that reads like a question though it doesn't have a question mark. No one ever answers my questions or not all of them, mine are a touch Socratic if you answer them honestly you will come to the truth for yourself, hence why some do not answer them, some people do not want the truth.
I'll answer your questions though it is an act of charity that will not be reciprocated.
Tainari88 wrote:Have you ever studied societies in human history who don't have concepts of private property? About land or houses or food or anything material? How about commonly held properties in which the entire community owns it? Communally held property? Why would any society do that over private property under capitalism? Can you think of some advantages it may have?
Much air is vented over the noble savages of mankind's pre-historical days, how they were all happy communists or whatever. They weren't but it doesn't matter, property conventions suitable for nomads who can own no more than they can carry are not suitable for agricultural people who can and need to accumulate more property than they can carry on their person, including land.
It proves nothing about the property conventions suitable to a civilisation composed of millions of internet engineers, cab drivers, florists, paramedics etc. It is a completely different thing.
Also communal property still exists alongside private property, since the Romans invented the concept of the republic, it has come to be called "public" property. It is essentially just like private property except the owner isn't a human being but a ghost that is somehow the amorphous aggregate of a million souls but cannot be commanded by most of them, just a few rulers. Public property has its uses, having a ghost own the roads for example is no great problem though there is no advantage over a king owning them, but that doesn't translate so well for the personal dominions of ordinary people: farms, homes, shops, workshops etc. They tried to make all land public land in the USSR and the results were pretty shitty let's be honest. A lot of people were murdered to make it happen and now they are undoing it all, what a waste of life, why don't any of you learn from the past?
Tainari88 wrote:Common sense for me means you don't own something a lot more powerful than you are and in which you depend in order to live? I need water. I need food. Land and rivers and wells, etc are therefore more powerful in a certain way than I am. The material environment has living cells and therefore it is a living organism. I depend on it to live. Someday I will die and my flesh and bones if I am buried will rot away and be eaten by worms and be food for the plants and the earth. I give back in a small way what I have lived off of. Who is the owner in that relationship? I think ownership of something is a bit on the self delusional side?
I don't know what any of this has to do with the topic at hand. In terms of power though, intelligence rules all, land is just rock and dirt, water is just water, it has no intelligence (unless you are an animist or something) consequently it is not more powerful than any human, not even more powerful than a bug, at least a bug has a brain. Property is an artifice to an extent, you can harshly call that a delusion, but such is civilisation, civilisation is built out of delusions then. Men shouldn't rape, don't steal, don't kill, respect one another's property.... all "delusions" we believe to make civilisation work. Anarchy is what happens when the delusions fall away, and the results are not pretty: rape, mass murders, vandalism, theft. Chaos, the return to the wild. Then some strongman comes along and restores order and the same delusions return and we are all the happier for it.
Tainari88 wrote:What do you think SolarCross . Please don't give me an argument about it is the natural system. There is nothing natural about owning something many times more powerful than we are. We depend on the sun for life. If the sun goes nova? We are not going to be in good shape.
And private property can be very absurd. In Bolivia in a town this company tried to 'privatize' rain water. They had 'rights' to all the water that fell from the sky? The people of Cochabamba disagreed. Guess who won? People are going to need water. If they can't pay for it? Because they are too poor to pay for it? Should they be allowed to die of thirst? Because profit is more important?
Private property, or indeed any convention of law, is not a "natural system", natural systems are witless rocks falling on each other randomly. Law is contrived, a work of intelligence, to make order out of chaos. So what of it? You should go back and read my post on Nordic myth
. Humankind is at its best inside the wall, civilised, and we can't go back to the chaos of nature without really catastrophic casualties, for one thing the earth cannot support 7 billion hunter-gatherers. Going back to nature, living as "noble savages" means the 99% die with no children to follow them.
As for your rainwater company, I suspect you are misrepresenting them somewhat but it matters not, an instance of a daft claim does not make all claims daft. Do you live in a house? You know that is private property right? The reason you, either as an owner or as a tenant, can legally exclude the rapist, murderer and thief or indeed anyone you dislike to invite in is because it is private property. Do you really want to give that up?
Tainari88 wrote:I really want you to tell me how one views private property SolarCross as somehow 'common sense'? See you tomorrow.
It is common sense to a civilised person, that is clear, everybody (barring a few crazy cult leaders like Gerrard Winstanley) seems to get it even without being taught it in school or whatever. To a wild animal no of course it is probably incomprehensible without a lot of training at which point it is no longer wild but domesticated. We (or some of us) aren't wild animals anymore though.