[Beren]

I wonder whether when Republicans come up with the idea of introducing a federal sales tax to reduce income and corporate taxes even more, maybe they should ask the Hungarian government if it really helps the rich get richer (and the poor get poorer).

[Drlee]

I just noticed that Doug64 fudged or misread his numbers. He is just wrong. No surprise there. The UK, Wales and Canada life expectancy at 65 are all longer than ours. EVEN WITH OUR GOVERNMENT PAID UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

[Doug64]

I just noticed that Doug64 fudged or misread his numbers. He is just wrong. No surprise there. The UK, Wales and Canada life expectancy at 65 are all longer than ours. EVEN WITH OUR GOVERNMENT PAID UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

You might want to check my post again, I included the links for each of the nations. England and Wales came from the UK’s Office for National Statistics, it’s a gov.uk site.

[Finfinder]

Fin,

With respect, it has been because people want and need health care we've witness people in droves protesting the proposed elimination of HC

Protesting is just rhetoric spin compared to the actual factual statistics of how damaging Obamacare has been to the majority of Americans. This was confirmed at the ballot box. The tax plan eliminated young people, who would never buy insurance for themselves anyway.

[Doug64]

Protesting is just rhetoric spin compared to the actual factual statistics of how damaging Obamacare has been to the majority of Americans. his was confirmed at the ballot box. The tax plan eliminated young people, who would never buy insurance for themselves anyway.

Of course there is nothing to stop states from imposing their own individual mandates, and from what I’ve heard California is considering doing just that. And isn’t that going to make the California Democrats popular with their younger voters?

[Finfinder]

Of course there is nothing to stop states from imposing their own individual mandates, and from what I’ve heard California is considering doing just that. And isn’t that going to make the California Democrats popular with their younger voters?

Californians love their taxes.

[Doug64]

Californians love their taxes.

They’re going to love them less now that their wealthier citizens can’t pass them off onto the rest of the nation.

[Crantag]

Of course there is nothing to stop states from imposing their own individual mandates, and from what I’ve heard California is considering doing just that. And isn’t that going to make the California Democrats popular with their younger voters?

It was certainly flawed to force people to buy hyperinflated private insurance.

Group insurance systems derive their strength and viability from mass participation. That is how they effectively allocate risk.

In Japan, I don't believe I was forced to buy health insurance, although the documentation at the city office stated that it was regarded as a civic responsibility.

But it would have been financially unsound to not buy insurance.

This factor has been eroded somewhat by the raising of deductibles over the years.

Nevertheless, this seems like a pretty simple test of an insurance system: it will either financially benefit or harm the participants (e.g., it's ultimately reducible to a binary operation).

The American health insurance system fails hordes of workers, but extending the private insurance market to cover them was probably a flawed experiment. Even comparable in some respects to Fannie Mae pushing mortgages on poor people? I don't know, but these government-private financial hybrids in the US don't seem like the way to me.

I really think single-payer is the real solution, and I think America will eventually come around to that, but perhaps they need to exhaust all alternatives first (to channel Churchill).

[Doug64]

The American health insurance system fails hordes of workers, but extending the private insurance market to cover them was probably a flawed experiment. Even comparable in some respects to Fannie Mae pushing mortgages on poor people? I don't know, but these government-private financial hybrids in the US don't seem like the way to me.

I really think single-payer is the real solution, and I think America will eventually come around to that, but perhaps they need to exhaust all alternatives first (to channel Churchill).

The Democrats would have been a lot better off if they’d just required everyone to purchase universal catastrophic health insurance with a high deductible and established some way of helping out those so poor they couldn’t even afford that little, plus a separate way for handling those with preexisting conditions. But that would have required raising taxes or increasing the deficit, and they wanted to try to set up a faux-single payer system by requiring the insurance companies to cover a lot of unnecessaries and accept preexisting conditions — not to mention force the states to expand Medicaid. (At least the Supreme Court shut that down.) Ad of course the whole Rube Goldberg machine is slowly falling apart. But I doubt we’ll go to single payer, the people of the US simply don’t trust the government that much, and would choke on the increase in taxes and losing the coverage they already have. I doubt we’ll ever trust anyone that says “if you like your doctor/coverage you can keep your doctor/coverage” again.

[Drlee]

You might want to check my post again, I included the links for each of the nations. England and Wales came from the UK’s Office for National Statistics, it’s a gov.uk site.

Follow all of your own links. Look at the OECD data.

T

he Democrats would have been a lot better off if they’d just required everyone to purchase universal catastrophic health insurance with a high deductible and established some way of helping out those so poor they couldn’t even afford that little, plus a separate way for handling those with preexisting conditions.

Nonsense. Catastrophic heath insurance is near to useless. And not much cheaper. It does not accomplish the goals that any intelligent insurance purchaser wishes to accomplish.

But that would have required raising taxes or increasing the deficit,

Coming from you this is laughable. You should be ashamed. Your president and republican legislature just gutted Obamacare AND RAISED THE DEFICIT 1.5TRILLION DOLLARS. So the answer to any republican who complains about the deficit should be, "fuck you hypocrite".

and they wanted to try to set up a faux-single payer system by requiring the insurance companies to cover a lot of unnecessaries and accept preexisting conditions —

Nonsense. Name something that should not be routinely covered by a good insurance policy?

Ad of course the whole Rube Goldberg machine is slowly falling apart.

No its not. The republicans are torpedoing it. Deliberately. Yet even with their cutting the enrollment period and stopping the advertising the people are signing up in record numbers. Make no mistake sport. The republicans passed a very unpopular bill and in 2018 they will get it stuck right up their asses.

But I doubt we’ll go to single payer, the people of the US simply don’t trust the government that much, and would choke on the increase in taxes and losing the coverage they already have.

Both untrue. The taxes needed for a comprehensive single-payer system would be far less than the average American is paying in premiums for the shitty insurance they have now.

I doubt we’ll ever trust anyone that says “if you like your doctor/coverage you can keep your doctor/coverage” again.

This is the biggest bunch of shit ever. Note to the masses. We can write our single-payer system to allow anything we want. Why? Because we own the whole store. If we want to give people choice of doctors (as the single payer medicare people have now by the way) we can. We spend over double what the UK spends on covering everyone for virtually everything and we don't even cover everyone for some things.

I am so sick of full of shit ideologues mouthing off on subjects for which they have no expertise and in which they have invested no objective thought. Fucking drones servicing the wealthy. They are getting fucked and not even kissed.

[Tainari88]

Wow, Dr. Lee is pissed. He sure is. I really like Dr. Lee when he gets all agitated. He is almost Latino. Lol.

Well, Dr. Lee what can I say my man? Little Ricky Rossello governor of Puerto Rico is angry that this GOP bill is going to screw Puerto Rico....? He was a man waiting for USA 51st state to be his one day....instead he declared war on the GOP. How can a conservative governor turn to a Democratic Party when Leftism is a betrayal to the Republican cause?

Because everyone is realizing the Republicans don't care about common sense anymore. It is all about cronyism and bullshit.

@Drlee is getting all Latino. He is so Latino.....it is all about Latino....

It inspires me...to see Drlee like this. A rap song for him:

The Republicans passed the Tax bill,
It sucks so bad I just want to kill,
That bill must be killed,
If the American people are to have a collective will,
that tax bill needs to be killed, kill that bill....
Oops it is law,
whip out the saws,
time to bring on the maws and the paws,
so we can party while we burn baby burn,
Washington DC inferno, burn baby burn!

[Godstud]

I wish I was Latino. Then I might be able to dance... and have more hair on my head.

[Ter]

I wish I was Latino. Then I might be able to dance... and have more hair on my head.

Not to worry, Godstud, loss of hair is correlated with a high level of testosteron. Which keeps your sex drive up.
But, white people cannot dance, that is true.

[Doug64]

Follow all of your own links. Look at the OECD data.

When available, comparable, and dependable, I prefer the numbers put out by the governments themselves. And when they aren’t dependable, neither will be the numbers put out by the OECD.

[Hindsite]

Not to worry, Godstud, loss of hair is correlated with a high level of testosteron. Which keeps your sex drive up.
But, white people cannot dance, that is true.

It may keep the sex drive up, but does nothing to restore lost hair.

Because everyone is realizing the Republicans don't care about common sense anymore.

Maybe everyone that has gone crazy because Hillary lost. However, I don't like those Mexicans and Latinos that think they are better than White people and they can dance across our border with impunity. Fuck those Latinos. HalleluYah.

I do like some Latino music however. For example:

[Tainari88]

It may keep the sex drive up, but does nothing to restore lost hair.


Maybe everyone that has gone crazy because Hillary lost. However, I don't like those Mexicans and Latinos that think they are better than White people and they can dance across our border with impunity. Fuck those Latinos. HalleluYah.

I do like some Latino music however. For example:

Hindsite, I am afraid you are a hopeless case.

I got to take it slow, and explain to you--the reason the supposedly bad Latinos who cross the border illegally and invade the White People's Sacred Space is not because they think they are better than white people, but because they can't find a job and need some income or they are fleeing a bad situation of some sort. None of the Latinos I have known that are undocumented, (and I have known a whole lot), are here because they think they are better than white people. They are working class and or poor as dirt and need a job. Any kind of job. The rest? Came as tourists on a plane and never left. I am sorry to tell you the drug dealers, rapists and criminals are not the majority. Just as if I pick out some white American rapist drug dealer and say he represents you Hindsite and every white person in the world. That is how simplistic and dumb that idea is.

All this hysteria, is unfounded, at this point in time there is zero border illegal activity growth. That means there are more Mexicans and Central Americans leaving the USA than coming over here. It is stable in Mexico because the unemployment rate has gone down drastically in Mexico. More employment in Mexico? Less illegal supposedly 'bad' Latinos over here.

As for music? Carlos Santana of the "smooth" song? He was a bad Latino. He came to the USA as a kid and came without papers. And he wrote a song hating on the Immigration and Naturalization cops--ICE---is not his favorite American institution. He wrote a song called, "La Migra". And he says "Fuck La Migra", I am sure he loves you a lot. A fan of his song "Smooth". LOL!

Ricky Martin is really Enrique Morales. He is gay and he is a Buddhist. And smart and very intelligent. Lives in Miami. He sang, danced and became famous a long time ago in Latin America as a kid. In a Puerto Rican boys band called "Menudo" that means 'small change'. He then became an actor, soap opera star, broadway star, and he is a true Boricua. Loves the island. His mother and father were professionals, and middle class.

Ricky Martin is cool. I met him once. A nice guy then. A nice guy now. Not arrogant and very sweet. I am sure he loves intolerant, racist bible thumping men who are kind of hard to deal with.....LOL.

[skinster]

[Drlee]

@Drlee is getting all Latino. He is so Latino.....it is all about Latino....

It inspires me...to see Drlee like this. A rap song for him:

I love it. I am honored.

Sometimes I wish I was Latino. The worlds best revolutionaries.

Doug64 said: When available, comparable, and dependable, I prefer the numbers put out by the governments themselves. And when they aren’t dependable, neither will be the numbers put out by the OECD

Confirmation bias much?

Typical of today's right. If the facts don't suit your argument just ignore them.

[Doug64]

Confirmation bias much?

Right, because preferring to use the data released by the actual governments when possible is confirmation bias. There isn’t really any way to have differing definitions of “lifespan after age 65.”

[Godstud]

Lifespan after 65, when you take care of your elders isn't as important as healthcare prior to 65 since many people die prior to 65, and the duration of time spend after 65 is not 65 years more.

Statistics vary on life expectancy after 65, but it still is important to note that a lower life expectancy(overall) is indicative of a poor healthcare system. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still going to be a pig.