[mikema63]

Assuming the whole revolution thing is off the table what would it take to revitalize american unions from the point we are at now? Both from the political side and the community side?

The most obvious I can see is to organize the service industry but I'm sure theres a lot else.

[SolarCross]

Assuming the whole revolution thing is off the table what would it take to revitalize american unions from the point we are at now? Both from the political side and the community side?

The most obvious I can see is to organize the service industry but I'm sure theres a lot else.

If you are going to trap people you have to do it comprehensively, there is no sense locking the door if the windows are open... Making labour cartels viable means preventing people from making use of the full range of ways to defend themselves against being hustled by them: so prevent them moving themselves and their money abroad and preventing foreign imports and I dare say much else beside. You probably should look at preventing automation and AI development too.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Revitalize domestic manufacturing. Unionizing the service industry with its high turn-around (largely because it is a transitional career) and raising the price of goods as a consequence seems to be a bad idea. Implementing tariffs of cheap foreign products produced in factories that use women and children as slave labor seems both ethical and expedient, incentivizing domestic production, and union-factory cooperation, would all likely help.

[Decky]

Dissociating themselves with right wing organisations like the democratic party completely . Using their money instead to support political groups who actually hold pro working class political goals (mass nationalisation, end to immigration, non interventionist foreign policy etc).

In short working class people have not abandoned unions, unions have abandoned the working class. People joined unions in the past as they fought for their interests, who would join one now? They just exist to funnel working class people's wages to scum like Hillary Clinton who belong in the dock in a courtroom and then on the end of a rope after being found guilty of treason.

[foxdemon]

There are a number of conditions that have become established that prevent organised labour. Those would have to be removed.

1/ temporary contract work force culture has to go.

2/ workers being expected to pay for their training must be replaced with industry training.

3/ illegal immigrants would have to be naturalised and those who have been employing them charged.

4/ In order to keep companies profitable, the executive bonus culture would have to go.


The hand of American workers is weak. This is deliberate. Corporate America has moved away from a permanent work force for the very reason that it undermines labour bargaining power.

[The Immortal Goon]

Class consciousness.

I've been involved in the creation of three unions, two of them in the US. It's not easy.

At the same time, this is all it takes. You just have to do it. It's not fun, it's not sexy, and you will probably fail most of the time. But you need to agitate, to organize your workplace. Then decide if a bigger union like the CWA or Teamsters are right for you, or a smaller more dynamic one like the IWW. It depends on the crew, it depends on the industry, because at all levels this is the ground level for a workers' democracy.

And it's just going to have to take people doing it, starting from scratch, and pushing from below. Our forefathers were shot in the streets like dogs for generations for doing it. It's possible that things are going to have to get to the point where it's bad enough that our grandchildren are getting murdered in the street for uttering the idea.

And is that a system worth preserving?

In the short term, you could try to elect people that would be more favorable to union shops in one way or another. To strangling the "gig economy" (which exists largely as an end-run around labour laws) and enforcing laws, often already on the books, that defend unions.

But the cold, hard, reality is that unionization is the first step in workers' democracy. And that's something that we have to fight for ourselves.

[SolarCross]

I expect there will always be attempts to form cartels but even the most successful cartel can't revive the dead. Automation, AI is progressing at an exponential pace, like it or not selling drudge work won't be a viable business for humans soon. If selling drudge work is part of your income stream then the smart thing to do is look at moving out of that trade into something else rather than try to cartel that business. Anticipate the future, rather than live in the past.

[Rich]

In short working class people have not abandoned unions, unions have abandoned the working class. People joined unions in the past as they fought for their interests, who would join one now? They just exist to funnel working class people's wages to scum like Hillary Clinton who belong in the dock in a courtroom and then on the end of a rope after being found guilty of treason.

What a strange thing to say. I thought unions were created and maintained by the working class. If unions are crap surely the working class only has itself to blame.

In the here now the working class are just passive victims, but in the imagined Communist future they're supposed to running the whole of society. In reality the leadership and very often the membership of Communist organisations both now and in the past are totally dominated by middle and upper class people. The history of Communism is the history of middle class people accusing each other of being petit bourgeois.

[Decky]

What a strange thing to say. I thought unions were created and maintained by the working class. If unions are crap surely the working class only has itself to blame.

Absolutly, the working class pathetically worship the rich. We go to all the trouple of starting parties and unions and then we let suit wearing scum with southern accents come and take them from us. Sometimes I think people deserve what they get.

[Reaper]

In the current global economy, the only way to promote unionization would be to support domestic manufacturing via immigration and trade barriers. Unfortunately, limiting Americans’ access to the cheaper products that can be made with cheaper labor, leads to higher prices. In effect you are asking all American consumers to directly subsidize the wages and benefits of these future union employees.

Quite frankly, I don’t think it’s a particularly good deal for most. It would lower the overall material standard of living to benefit a new elite, union minority.

[Doug64]

Dissociating themselves with right wing organisations like the democratic party completely . Using their money instead to support political groups who actually hold pro working class political goals (mass nationalisation, end to immigration, non interventionist foreign policy etc).

Disassociating themselves from political organizations entirely. They aren’t helped by supporting positions and candidates that at a minimum a sizable minority of their members oppose. There’s a reason why the fight against mandatory union fees has been as successful as it has, a combination of politicians seeing those funds used against them in campaigns combined with members seeing their dues being used to support politicians and causes they’re voting against.

[addem]

As best as I can tell, the degradation of unions has largely been a consequence of specific laws which have undermined their ability to accomplish goals. The New Deal created their structure and they were fairly robust for a few decades. Regan breaking the air traffic union was a big moment, but even Taft-Hartley in the 40s began pulling back a lot of the power of unions.

But also, labor isn't concentrated in compact locations like it used to be, and that's going to necessarily diffuse its power. And like has been pointed out elsewhere, manufacturing is going the way of AI, and for better and for worse, that's never getting reversed--so we should not conceive of labor unions as being relevant primarily to manufacturing. Probably more fundamental than controlling the working standards that we maintain within industries, is finding a way to deal with the new nature of the economy. The future just will place a marginal value on physical labor, the premium will be on technical skills, flexible problem-solving, and soft skills. We need to somehow efficiently direct young people into these fields, and perhaps also move some not-young people.

Whether government has the tools to fix this problem is not clear to me.

[Rancid]

It's interesting to me, that you folks always only refer to lower skilled labor jobs when talking about Unions. Is there no reason to unionize say... engineers? Is that not possible? Does it not matter?

[Thomasmariel]

Armies, markets, police, money, business and unions all need name-calling, which is why all should be abolished

[Doug64]

It's interesting to me, that you folks always only refer to lower skilled labor jobs when talking about Unions. Is there no reason to unionize say... engineers? Is that not possible? Does it not matter?

The more training and experience needed to do a job, the less unions are necessary.

[Zagadka]

We've also had a very large increase in workplace safety, education, equipment, and other regulations, as well as new technology, so many jobs that used to be very bad for workers have either gotten a lot better (or had pay raises) or completely replaced by computers/automation. Or foreign production. The jobs that require a union to defend worker safety and rights just aren't that common anymore. Unions are still strong among many blue collar and civil service jobs.