[Rugoz]

Why should people be punished for what they willingly do to themselves?
The drug dealer is harming others. Huge difference from harming yourself.

Nobody forces people to buy drugs from dealers. They provide a service for which there is demand. But of course it's easier to blame the dealers, who also tend to be immigrants or other undesirables, than your own kids, your failed parenting or the dysfunctional society you live in.

[Albert]

No one forces drug dealers to sell drugs. If they choose to sell highly addictive substance that kills people, it is their own fault.

Drug dealers, suppliers, producers or anyone that protects or harbors them are mass-murders and they should be prosecuted in the legal system as such. No better then terrorist.

[Rugoz]

No one forced drug dealers to sell drugs. If they choose to sell highly addictive substance that kills people, it is their own fault.

What kind of dumb statement is that. Two people, dealer and consumer, enter a mutually agreed on contract. I cannot even make a libertarian argument just for fun because nobody gets it. Wtf happened to Pofo.

[Albert]

Human trafficking is business as well, if one sells 12 year old girls on black market is he not morally responsible? But only the "customer" that buys it? Enough with your bullshit Rugoz. I have heard people arguing like you do and the stupidity is with you people. Drug dealers prey on the weak and vulnerable in our society, that is how they make money. They are evil, if you do not see that there is something wrong with you.

[One Degree]

Sorry @Rugoz , I thought it was a strange comment but I missed the humor. Zing.

[Ter]

They provide a service for which there is demand. But of course it's easier to blame the dealers, who also tend to be immigrants or other undesirables, than your own kids, your failed parenting or the dysfunctional society you live in.

If selling illegal and dangerous substances is their contribution to society, then those immigrants should not be in the country. They should be expelled after sitting out their lengthy jail sentences. If the drug dealers are local, they can spend a significant part of their remaining natural life in jail to ponder the error of their ways.

Wtf happened to Pofo.

Pofo is Pofo, I am rather worried about you, being so high up on your Swiss mountain. Is there enough oxygen up there ?

[Godstud]

There are already punishments for drug dealing. We don't need to kill people like some 3rd world shit-hole would, simply because it "feels" right. I am all for increasing punishments for people selling truly dangerous drugs(something that is subjective, as the amount taken can actually be not dangerous, under the right circumstances). What constitutes dangerous drugs, however, varies greatly depending on who you ask. (eg. Marijuana is not a deadly drug. Alcohol is.)

Should people be killed for selling something to someone who wants to buy it? No. Even if it's illegal, the purchase is a choice. No is "forced" to buy and consume drugs.

Parents need to take responsibility for their children, and teach them not to buy drugs, in the first place. If you are going to kill the drug dealer then you should at least imprison the shitty parent who neglected to teach their child properly.

[Pants-of-dog]

If selling illegal and dangerous substances is their contribution to society, then those immigrants should not be in the country. They should be expelled after sitting out their lengthy jail sentences. If the drug dealers are local, they can spend a significant part of their remaining natural life in jail to ponder the error of their ways.

Pofo is Pofo, I am rather worried about you, being so high up on your Swiss mountain. Is there enough oxygen up there ?

Actually, many drugs are legal. The opioids that are killing everyone, for example, are used in medicine.

It is simply illegal to use or sell these drugs for entertainment. The drugs themselves are legal.

[Ter]

Actually, many drugs are legal. The opioids that are killing everyone, for example, are used in medicine.

They are only legal if prescribed by a medical practitioner who is entitled to do so.
Selling xanax or opioids from your garage is illegal and there are heavy punishments prescribed for doing that. As you said.
As the drug dealers ruins lives, it is only logical that their lives should also be ruined. Decade-long prison sentences are in order, or life without parole.
Dealers who sell to children can as far as I am concerned be taken around the corner and get a bullet in the back of the head.
Many of those drugs are highly addictive so there is no choice left for the user once he/she is hooked.

[Red_Army]

Drug manufacturers like Purdue Pharma knowingly engaged in practices to both increase the prescription quantities from doctors - rewarding them for more and more prescriptions as well as being disingenuous about the reality of dosage. They were massive pharmaceutical drug dealers that caused untold harm to millions of Americans and received paltry fines as punishments. @Ter if you honestly care about people being hurt by drugs then pharmaceutical companies are a much bigger issue than desperately poor street dealers. The fact that doctors are complicit in over-prescription with inaccurate dosages only makes the situation worse because the office and lab coat give legitimacy to them selling poison. At least someone buying dope in a back alley knows that its poison. Your average house wife, veteran, or construction worker who hurts his back tends to believe their doctor.

This is not a partisan issue btw, Obama's Surgeon General is the one who meted out the punishments to Purdue for their handling of Oxycontin.

[Rich]

:eh: Nobody forces people to buy drugs from dealers. They provide a service for which there is demand. But of course it's easier to blame the dealers, who also tend to be immigrants or other undesirables, than your own kids, your failed parenting or the dysfunctional society you live in.

I think these Conservatives believe that government knows better than the individual. Most Conservatives are very critical of the Founders for the lack of drug control and full of praise for San Francisco for leading the way on this social- cultural issue.

[Victoribus Spolia]

So you think sellers should be held accountable for dangers in their goods or services that are not apparent to the average consumer?

No, i'm saying that if you intentionally poison someone it should be considered murder, or at least, a form of assault for which I should have the right to retaliate.

Reporting on ingredients is a separate matter entirely and assumes a regulatory apparatus.....though private firms could offer regulating and testing services far better than the current FDA.

[Pants-of-dog]

They are only legal if prescribed by a medical practitioner who is entitled to do so. Selling xanax or opioids from your garage is illegal and there are heavy punishments prescribed for doing that. As you said.

Yes, that is what I said. Thanks for agreeing that the substances are not illegal as you previously claimed.

As the drug dealers ruins lives, it is only logical that their lives should also be ruined. Decade-long prison sentences are in order, or life without parole.
Dealers who sell to children can as far as I am concerned be taken around the corner and get a bullet in the back of the head.
Many of those drugs are highly addictive so there is no choice left for the user once he/she is hooked.

I like how you ignore the role of the person consuming the drug. Totally absolve them of responsibility.

Also, should people who buy beer for teenagers be sent to jail for a long time or killed?

Alcohol is another dangerous drug that can only be legally sold by certain people.

————————————

No, i'm saying that if you intentionally poison someone it should be considered murder, or at least, a form of assault for which I should have the right to retaliate.

Reporting on ingredients is a separate matter entirely and assumes a regulatory apparatus.....though private firms could offer regulating and testing services far better than the current FDA.

If you think you have the right to retaliate, you are arguing that you should be allowed to hold this person accountable.

And what is the thing for which they should be accountable? For selling a good or service that had dangers that were not apparent to the consumer.

I am not going to argue about US-specific regulatory bodies with you. I am getting tired of US-centrism.

[Victoribus Spolia]

And what is the thing for which they should be accountable? For selling a good or service that had dangers that were not apparent to the consumer.

In my example, the seller had laced the product with anthrax, you think that is no different than a seller that laced such with baking soda?

Thats what it sounds like....

One is intentionally dangerous and can only ever have an openly malicious intent, the latter is simply lazy and unthinking.

I am arguing the former, as definitely being lethal, if sold, guarantees my right to shoot the seller....the latter, not so much. There is a moral distinction there and has nothing to do with disclosing ingredients, only whether or not intentionally poisoning someone ought to be considered murder.

[Ter]

Thanks for agreeing that the substances are not illegal as you previously claimed.

They are only legal if prescribed by an authorised medical practitioner.
And illegal if sold by a drug dealer.

So the drug is not legal or illegal in itself.
Is a bullet legal? Is a gun legal? It depends.

Also, should people who buy beer for teenagers be sent to jail for a long time or killed?

Don't be ridiculous.

[Pants-of-dog]

In my example, the seller had laced the product with anthrax, you think that is no different than a seller that laced such with baking soda?

Thats what it sounds like....

One is intentionally dangerous and can only ever have an openly malicious intent, the latter is simply lazy and unthinking.

I am arguing the former, as definitely being lethal, if sold, guarantees my right to shoot the seller....the latter, not so much. There is a moral distinction there and has nothing to do with disclosing ingredients, only whether or not intentionally poisoning someone ought to be considered murder.

You have to read more carefully.

I asked if you think sellers should be held accountable for dangers in their goods or services that are not apparent to the average consumer.

I never discussed disclosing ingredients.

———————————

They are only legal if prescribed by an authorised medical practitioner.
And illegal if sold by a drug dealer.

So the drug is not legal or illegal in itself.
Is a bullet legal? Is a gun legal? It depends.

Don't be ridiculous.

I thought you were arguing that people should go to jail for selling legal but dangerous drugs if they are not legally allowed to sell them.

I guess you have a double standard for some drugs.

[Victoribus Spolia]

I asked if you think sellers should be held accountable for dangers in their goods or services that are not apparent to the average consumer.

I think that is a seperate matter.

I am not saying that you have to disclose to me that you placed razor blades and a bomb in a cake you sell me, but I should be able to retaliate for any action of intentional harm taken against my family, by returning such an action in equal measure against the perpetrator that initiated the hostilities (namely you).

Let me ask you.

If you intentionally put Arsenic in a glass of lemonade you sell me, should you be guilty of murder?

Yes or No?

[Pants-of-dog]

I think that is a seperate matter.

I am not saying that you have to disclose to me that you placed razor blades and a bomb in a cake you sell me, but I should be able to retaliate for any action of intentional harm taken against my family, by returning such an action in equal measure against the perpetrator that initiated the hostilities (namely you).

Let me ask you.

If you intentionally put Arsenic in a glass of lemonade you sell me, should you be guilty of murder?

Yes or No?

Yes, I believe that I should be held accountable for non-apparant dangers in any good or service I sell.

If you think I should be held accountable for that then you do too.

[Victoribus Spolia]

Yes, I believe that I should be held accountable for non-apparant dangers in any good or service I sell.

If you think I should be held accountable for that then you do too.

I don't understand your point then.

I think retaliation for being poisoned is a justified retaliation under the principle of the NAP and is consistent with AnCap and Libertarian thought.

You are somehow construing that as being supportive of regulations.

That simply does not follow.

[Pants-of-dog]

If you do not see how you are arguing that people should be held accountable for hidden dangers in their goods and services, fine.