[quetzalcoatl]

Words such as "conservative" or "liberal" long ago lost their meaning, jimjam. Nowadays, "conservatives" spend money like drunken sailors on shore leave, and just borrow it from their unborn grandkids rather than raise taxes here and now. And "liberals" have become the most intolerant illiberal Puritans since Oliver Cromwell.

I tell you, we live in strange times jimjam....

I noticed that Trump's buddy, Victor Orban, has called himself an "illiberal democrat." The purpose of modern liberalism since Reagan/Thatcher seems to be the destruction of every illusion of the populations it governs. It has been remarkably successful in this regard. It destroyed the civil verities of liberal capitalism, including the sanctity of capitalism itself. Many on the right are, like Tucker Carlson, jumping on the anti-capitalist bandwagon. Frank Luntz is telling his GOP clients to stop defending "capitalism" and instead talk about "freedom."

Strange times, indeed.

[Hindsite]

Many on the right are, like Tucker Carlson, jumping on the anti-capitalist bandwagon. Frank Luntz is telling his GOP clients to stop defending "capitalism" and instead talk about "freedom."

I don't know about Frank Luntz, who is just a pollster anyway. I don't know of any on the right that are jumping on the anti-capitalist bandwagon, including Tucker Carlson. Tucker may suggest ways he thinks capitalism could be improved, but he is far from supporting socialism. They also reported that Tucker said he might vote for Elizabeth Warren. Yeah, ha, ha, I am sure that might happen.

[jimjam]

Words such as "conservative" or "liberal" long ago lost their meaning, jimjam. Nowadays, "conservatives" spend money like drunken sailors on shore leave, and just borrow it from their unborn grandkids rather than raise taxes here and now. And "liberals" have become the most intolerant illiberal Puritans since Oliver Cromwell.

I tell you, we live in strange times jimjam....

Indeed we do. I tend to think in terms of the effect of money and it's distribution on society/politics. I was fortunate to have lived and worked in the immediate post world war years when wealth was much more evenly distributed than what we see today. Politicians and "talk shows" pay much lip service to our great economy and low unemployment rates. Absolutely true but hardly half the story. A great economy ….. for who? Largely the top 10% due to the massive redistribution of wealth from the lower levels to the higher levels. Low unemployment? True but ………… what about a livable wage? What about record levels of household debt? Families where 2,3 or 4 jobs must be held simply to purchase food and shelter. In the early 1970's when I started my working life I stepped right into a job that offered full no restrictions health insurance. The debate over "pre existing conditions" did not exist. Of course pre existing conditions were covered. WTF do you think is the point of health insurance. Benefits, especially health insurance, are virtually non existent today.

"Conservatives" used to support balanced budgets and not spending money that isn't there. No more. "Conservatives" now support massive debt as a very effective and "hidden" mechanism to speed up redistribution of wealth from the lower to the upper levels. Witness recent massive tax reductions for the wealthy and increasingly common talk of how social security and medicare are "unsustainable".

[jimjam]

The things that matter — housing, health care, child care, education, secure retirement — have become all but unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans. Most families don’t have enough saved to weather even a minor financial setback without going into hock. The employment numbers hide the underemployment statistics and labor force participation rates. The job market is not "booming" when highly educated people are working retail or waiting tables. This kind of pervasive underemployment is why the inflation rate has not budged, despite the official "low" rate of unemployment. Most people are scared.

I don't expect inflation to show up any time soon with the major exceptions of CEO salaries, medical costs and tuition increases. Young people are imprisoned in their parents' basements in student debt peonage at a time in their lives when they should be out shopping, making babies, and buying houses and durable goods. Why does no-one consider the extreme disparity of wealth that has been developing as the reason that inflation has stayed low?

What we need is an increase in the minimum wage, more unions, a real infrastructure plan to rebuild roads, schools, ports, hospitals, airports, high speed trains, public transportation, reducing student debt, and more policies that put money in workers' pockets. Giving more money to the wealthy who already have everything they need is useless.

[Hindsite]

The things that matter — housing, health care, child care, education, secure retirement — have become all but unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans. Most families don’t have enough saved to weather even a minor financial setback without going into hock. The employment numbers hide the underemployment statistics and labor force participation rates. The job market is not "booming" when highly educated people are working retail or waiting tables. This kind of pervasive underemployment is why the inflation rate has not budged, despite the official "low" rate of unemployment. Most people are scared.

None of that is true. It is all bullshit.

I don't expect inflation to show up any time soon with the major exceptions of CEO salaries, medical costs and tuition increases. Young people are imprisoned in their parents' basements in student debt peonage at a time in their lives when they should be out shopping, making babies, and buying houses and durable goods. Why does no-one consider the extreme disparity of wealth that has been developing as the reason that inflation has stayed low?

Young people get free education through high school. They don't have to go to college immediately after graduation. They can work and save money for college if that is what they want or just learn a good trade to make a living and not worry about any college debt. There are more jobs available now than people to fill them. I say they should get off their lazy asses and get to work because the economy is great again.

What we need is an increase in the minimum wage, more unions, a real infrastructure plan to rebuild roads, schools, ports, hospitals, airports, high speed trains, public transportation, reducing student debt, and more policies that put money in workers' pockets. Giving more money to the wealthy who already have everything they need is useless.

I live in Georgia, which is a Republican led state. So we have our own infrastructure plan that has already been put in force. We also have had a college fund from our state lottery for years that pays state college tuition for B or above grade students. We don't give money to the rich and wealthy. They earn it.

[blackjack21]

The things that matter — housing, health care, child care, education, secure retirement — have become all but unaffordable for the vast majority of Americans.

The vast majority? More than 60% of residences are occupied by their owners jimjam. There are places with building restrictions and high property prices that make it expensive. Mountain View, California is an excellent example. The homeless population, however, is largely mentally ill or drug/alcohol addicted people. Child care isn't expensive if your wife stays home to take care of them as God intended. For career women who like to disobey their husbands and get divorced a lot, it can be a challenge. That's why God did not invent feminism. Education institutions are just a racketeering operation at this point. If you read the books and understand the topics, you are educated. If you are talking about obtaining degrees as evidentiary certificates of your intelligence, you are talking about a racket which is doing precisely what it is designed to do. Humans have lived for 10s of thousands of years without modern medicine. We can survive without it. Retirement isn't a right either.

Most families don’t have enough saved to weather even a minor financial setback without going into hock.

I would encourage them to cancel their cable TV subscription and set that money aside. I would limit the house to one cell phone too. You also don't need more than one TV.

The employment numbers hide the underemployment statistics and labor force participation rates.

You can blame Obama for that. However, if you just get rid of illegal aliens, that problem would be solved overnight. It's interesting that neither major political party wants to do that, isn't it?

The job market is not "booming" when highly educated people are working retail or waiting tables.

It depends on their education and whether the economy needs their art history or women's studies degree.

This kind of pervasive underemployment is why the inflation rate has not budged, despite the official "low" rate of unemployment.

Well, that and free trade with China. It will be interesting to see how tariffs impact inflation. Will Chinese producers crush margins to keep marketshare, or watch that market share slide to Vietnamese, Japanese, Thai, and Indonesian producers?

Most people are scared.

Whiskey helps with that.

Young people are imprisoned in their parents' basements in student debt peonage at a time in their lives when they should be out shopping, making babies, and buying houses and durable goods.

Well, they probably should be out working before they go out shopping, making babies and buying houses and durable goods. That's why college degrees in women's studies, conflict resolution and the like aren't worth the paper they are printed on. STEM is where it is at. It's where it has been at for a very long time now.

Why does no-one consider the extreme disparity of wealth that has been developing as the reason that inflation has stayed low?

Because production is high. The problem is that the people producing the goods live in China and the people consuming them live in America. People need to be both producers and consumers. If there is a significant imbalance, such as China's trade surplus, you end up with economic dislocations. Why is Donald Trump the only politician to address the problems with open borders and free trade? That's a better question.

What we need is an increase in the minimum wage, more unions, a real infrastructure plan to rebuild roads, schools, ports, hospitals, airports, high speed trains, public transportation, reducing student debt, and more policies that put money in workers' pockets. Giving more money to the wealthy who already have everything they need is useless.

Tariffs on Chinese imports would be a great way to start. I don't need a union. I do very well without one. I'll bet US citizens working construction sheet rock could use one, but the big problem would be illegal aliens driving wages down. Maybe we should allow illegal aliens to form their own unions.

[redcarpet]

jimjam wrote:
Why does no-one consider the extreme disparity of wealth that has been developing as the reason that inflation has stayed low?

Not raising the minimum wage helps hold down wages, as well as intentionally tolerating a large underclass of foreign illegal immigrants in your society so that the multinationals and small businesses alike can exploit them below the minimum wage.

It's not sustainable in the long-term though. Personal debt in the U.S is way too much and the national debt at record level thanks to Trump & his clones. The federal interest rate will need to be increased soon to deter borrowing!

[Rancid]

So far, I still maintain, he will get re-elected.

[jimjam]

More than 60% of residences are occupied by their owners jimjam. There are places with building restrictions and high property prices that make it expensive. Mountain View, California is an excellent example. The homeless population, however, is largely mentally ill or drug/alcohol addicted people.

"owner" occupied residences are not free and about 2/3 of them have mortgages which, to my Yankee brain, means that the bank, essentially, owns the residence. Forget about Mountain View. "Working class" houses in Florida are being slapped together in a few weeks. They all look the same, like the little houses in a Monopoly game and run in the $215,000 -$290,000 range. That'll run you about $1666 @month on a 30 year mortgage. Three jobs at Burger King should cover that but you may have to intercept left over French fries from the dumpster for dinner. Society's homeless burn jobs are another story. I'm not talking about them.

Education institutions are just a racketeering operation at this point.

Could not agree more. Tuition at the 4 year college I graduated from was $3000 for four yearsin 1964. Today ……. $250,000. Don't even ask what the "president" of the college gets paid. I got my degree in 1969 and it led to a fantastic job from the get go that literally flew me around the world and offered no questions asked full health insurance. Today? ……….. unless I was a type A genius like you I would be strapped into a sweat shop job at Amazon. Today? ……. I wouldn't waste my time and money with college. I would be a plumber @$150 @hr.

I would encourage them to cancel their cable TV subscription and set that money aside. I would limit the house to one cell phone too. You also don't need more than one TV.

please make an effort to be realistic.

You can blame Obama for that

Let us blame one person for a complex problem that has evolved over decades. How convenient and simple minded is that?

a significant imbalance, such as China's trade surplus

You may be surprised to hear that I completely applaud Obese Donald's calling out China. T-shirts and toys are one thing …… F-35's and 5g are another. Instead of China getting richer and becoming more of a responsible stakeholder in globalization, it was getting richer and militarizing islands in the South China Sea to push the U.S. out. And it was using high-tech tools, like facial recognition, to become more efficient at authoritarian control, not less.

To arrive at a mutually beneficial outcome both Donald and Xi need to lighten up and break free of the "winners" and "losers" dichotomy.

None of that is true. It is all bullshit.

positively brilliant...………. straight from your Master's Voice, Sean and Rush.

[Beren]

I noticed that Trump's buddy, Victor Orban, has called himself an "illiberal democrat." The purpose of modern liberalism since Reagan/Thatcher seems to be the destruction of every illusion of the populations it governs. It has been remarkably successful in this regard. It destroyed the civil verities of liberal capitalism, including the sanctity of capitalism itself. Many on the right are, like Tucker Carlson, jumping on the anti-capitalist bandwagon. Frank Luntz is telling his GOP clients to stop defending "capitalism" and instead talk about "freedom."

Strange times, indeed.

Illiberal democracy is the Putin thing and Orbán never talks about freedom. Hungary ceased to be a republic so much so that we could leave the EU and join the Russian Federation, even Republic square was renamed John Paul II square in Budapest. However, Trump has neglected Orbán completely until recently when they had a short formal meeting in the White House.

[annatar1914]

Illiberal democracy is the Putin thing and Orbán never talks about freedom. Hungary ceased to be a republic so much so that we could leave the EU and join the Russian Federation, even Republic square was renamed John Paul II square. However, Trump has neglected Orbán completely until recently when they had a short formal meeting in the White House.

There's a reason for that;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_ ... goryIX.jpg

Which is to say that this is no random accident but part of a longer range plan. All the liberal talk will cease after a while.

[Beren]

All the liberal talk will cease after a while.

And everyone will speak Russian or Chinese?

I wonder if freedom of speech will cease too.

[annatar1914]

And everyone will speak Russian or Chinese?

I wonder if freedom of speech will cease too.

No, not Russian or Chinese, but I do expect quite the Fascistic Reactionary revival in Western and Central Europe, extending to the East up to the frontiers of the Russian Federation. And yes, I expect freedom of speech to end in these and other places.

[Beren]

No, not Russian or Chinese, but I do expect quite the Fascistic Reactionary revival in Western and Central Europe, extending to the East up to the frontiers of the Russian Federation. And yes, I expect freedom of speech to end in these and other places.

I wonder if you're aware the Russian government is catalysing that process.

[annatar1914]

I wonder if you're aware the Russian government is catalysing that process.

They're trying to stay on top of a boiling pot, getting ahead of the process to manage it's potential threat to the security of Russia... No more ''1941'' for them. I see as I indicated, other forces at work that actually are inimical to the existence of Russia as a people and nation-state.

[Beren]

They're trying to stay on top of a boiling pot, getting ahead of the process to manage it's potential threat to the security of Russia... No more ''1941'' for them.

Maybe Stalin should have supported Hitler too to stay on top of a boiling pot, getting ahead of the process to manage its potential threat to the security of Russia.

[annatar1914]

Maybe Stalin should have supported Hitler too to stay on top of a boiling pot, getting ahead of the process to manage its potential threat to the security of Russia.

There is a school of thought that says he did exactly that, buying time and gaining space for as long as he could until the inevitable conflict began. I'm sure that there is zero chance Stalin didn't read ''Mein Kampf'' before the war and knew that Germany would engage in ''Drang nach Osten'' eventually.

[Beren]

There is a school of thought that says he did exactly that, buying time and gaining space for as long as he could until the inevitable conflict began. I'm sure that there is zero chance Stalin didn't read ''Mein Kampf'' before the war and knew that Germany would engage in ''Drang nach Osten'' eventually.

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a different story. As far as I know Stalin didn't directly support Hitler's efforts to become chancellor of Germany and bring down the Weimar Republic.

[annatar1914]

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a different story. As far as I know Stalin didn't directly support Hitler's efforts to become chancellor of Germany and bring down the Weimar Republic.

There are some in the ''Victor Suvorov'' camp of wingnuts who suggest Stalin did exactly that, calling Hitler the ''Icebreaker of the Revolution'' at one time. I think it was less than that. The comparison today is not so strong, either, at least yet.

[Beren]

There are some in the ''Victor Suvorov'' camp of wingnuts who suggest Stalin did exactly that

If Stalin really did that, then Putin makes the same mistake in both the EU and the US.