DHS Report: 2000 Children Separated From Parents In Past Six Weeks - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14926805
It's a good policy because what is the alternative? It is certainly a better policy than gunning down entire families. It is a better policy than just letting these people run wild inside of the US.


You know I have answered this question until I am blue in the face.

The best solution is to vigorously enforce the laws against employing illegal aliens. Walk a few business owners across the stage in handcuffs and this shit will stop today. Then deny welfare to anyone not here legally and the problem is simply fixed. It will be Mexico that is trying to build their own fence.
#14926809
Drlee wrote:You know I have answered this question until I am blue in the face.

The best solution is to vigorously enforce the laws against employing illegal aliens. Walk a few business owners across the stage in handcuffs and this shit will stop today. Then deny welfare to anyone not here legally and the problem is simply fixed. It will be Mexico that is trying to build their own fence.


That is only part of a solution. Many illegals work for individuals, very small businesses, farms, and self employed. We all see them everyday and choose to ignore them. When 5 guys, who don’t speak English, are roofing your house, no one calls the authorities.
When I was in Texas, my Mexican American neighbor rented a small trailer to 5 young male illegals that worked on nearby ranches. They were so quiet that I only saw them twice going in the trailer over 6 months. I swear they had to push their car up and down the driveway they were so quiet and invisible. I felt both respect and sadness for them. There is no way you are going to catch them after they have crossed the border. They are invisible, but in plain sight.
#14926812
maz wrote:How many more of these stupid hoaxes are we going to have to tolerate?


Which one...….

No one will lose coverage. There will be insurance for everybody. Healthcare will be a “lot less expensive” for everyone — the government, consumers, providers.

Mexico will pay for the wall.

“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”

others too numerous to mention
#14926825
Drlee wrote:You know I have answered this question until I am blue in the face.

The best solution is to vigorously enforce the laws against employing illegal aliens. Walk a few business owners across the stage in handcuffs and this shit will stop today. Then deny welfare to anyone not here legally and the problem is simply fixed. It will be Mexico that is trying to build their own fence.


I can say with certainty that I agree with you 100%, but tell me where I can find any media outlet willing to have this discussion.

Everyone knows that both parties have their extremists who are not interested in fixing the immigration policy, which appears to be relatively easy to fix.

The progressive extremists want the open borders, partly in exchange for votes but mostly because they hate white people and want to replace them, and the Republicans want to provide a constant supply of cheap labor to their constituents in exchange for votes.
#14926992
When I was in Texas, my Mexican American neighbor rented a small trailer to 5 young male illegals that worked on nearby ranches. They were so quiet that I only saw them twice going in the trailer over 6 months. I swear they had to push their car up and down the driveway they were so quiet and invisible. I felt both respect and sadness for them. There is no way you are going to catch them after they have crossed the border. They are invisible, but in plain sight.


This begs the obvious question. Then what is your problem with them?

My answer is though to take many of the border patrol people currently on our southern border and visit all employers. Even that rancher. He is breaking all kinds of laws. He is likely a felon and the illegals have only committed minor misdemeanors. Trump wants 30 billion a year for the wall. For 30 billion we could hire 150,000 immigration officers and give each of them a $100,000 per year budget for getting around. At this number one in every 2200 people in the US would be an immigration agent. About one year would do it. Do you think that would solve the problem?

One billion would hire 5000 agents. Put the additional 100 agents into each state (adjusted by illegal population estimates) and arrest those who hire them. Be nice. Give one warning. Then arrest them. I am talking these ranchers, farmers, hotel owners, construction company owners. You name it. The problem will end overnight.

Of course Texas will be in a trick bag with 10% of their population is unemployed overnight. Here is what would happen:

First of all these newly unemployed people would have nowhere to go. Home? How would they get there? Mexico certainly wouldn't let them cross. Then there are the 60% of them who have been here over a decade. What of them? Do we send them home? Where is home? What of the 30% if them who have one or more children who are American citizens? Who takes the kids? You can't deport American citizens. Maybe we get a shit ton of day care and residential care workers to look after them. Perhaps giant residential schools where they can live and go to school rather than live with those misdemeanor committing parents of theirs. That's the ticket. We take millions of American citizen children and put them in foster homes and boarding schools.

Texas would have another teensy weensy problem. Many if not most restaurants and hotels would shut down. Construction would screech to a stop. Day care centers would shut down sending millions of moms and dads home to take care of the kids. These illegals who were previously covered by health insurance at work would all of a sudden challenge the medical system uninsured. The market would be flooded with homes for sale.

You see guys, what you seem to want is simply impossible. So are you saying that you only want to stop more and let the ones here alone? If that is the case you should come over to the democratic side. That is what they want. They are for stopping illegal immigration and giving work and a path to citizenship to many who are here already. Particularly the 60% of them who have been here over 10 years. But you would have to abandon Trump at once. He wants to deport all of them. There is absolutely no ambiguity in the term "Zero Tolerance". "Arrest them all", he says. "Take the children", he says.

A conservative icon, Ronald Reagan, had the solution to the ones who have been living and working here for a long time. Which of you so-called conservatives will have the moral courage to make a post here with his conservative republican solution. Go ahead. I won't do it for you.

You are holding a position that is unjustifiable either morally or logically. You must change it. If you can't, at least admit that it is simply malicious prejudice to near and dear to you to let it go.
#14927021
@Drlee said...

This begs the obvious question. Then what is your problem with them?


I don’t have a ‘problem’ with the ones I mentioned other than they are here illegally. I also don’t believe these young men should be living their lives in fear. They are afraid to go out and have fun. This was created because our borders are not protected. This lack of border security means they feel required to go to the US and earn money at the sacrifice of freedom of their youth. They would not feel this expectation if everyone knew the border was secure.
As I explained in another thread, my feelings on immigration are mainly about population. I fully support only legal immigration.
All of the problems you suggested might occur are irrelevant. You don’t ignore the laws because you don’t want to be inconvenienced. Children of illegals should be deported with their parents unless they are legally emancipated. Undoing decades of wrong should not expected to be painless for anyone.
#14927046
@One Degree , Drlee's not talking about "inconvenience". :roll: He's talking about economic catastrophe. How can you not see that?

USA has no population problem, either, and implying such isn't factually based. You might FEEL that way...
#14927092
Godstud wrote:@One Degree , Drlee's not talking about "inconvenience". :roll: He's talking about economic catastrophe. How can you not see that?

USA has no population problem, either, and implying such isn't factually based. You might FEEL that way...


What he describes as ‘economic catastrophe’, I see as possible inconveniences for those who have more than they need. For those of us who are satisfied with something to eat and a warm bed, nothing much will change.
In actuality, it will improve our standard of living after a brief adjustment.

We seem to have people worried robots will take all the jobs while demanding we need immigrants to fill all the jobs. Seems to be some confusion over our needs for the future.
#14927098
Suntzu wrote:The U.S. has about 90,000,000 people who are paid not to work.
:roll: Please show a source for this claim, or did you simply pull that number out of your ass?

A little education, as they say...

Who Really Receives Welfare and Government Entitlements?

The Number of Families Receiving Welfare Today Is Lower than in 1996

The study also found that the average monthly rate of participation was just about 1 in 5, meaning more than 52 million people received assistance during each month of 2012.

However, it's worth pointing out that most benefits recipients are concentrated within Medicaid (15.3 percent of the population as a monthly average in 2012) and SNAP (13.4 percent). Just 4.2 percent of the population received housing assistance in a given month in 2012, just 3 percent received SSI, and a tiny, combined 1 percent received TANF or GA.


Many Receiving Government Assistant Are Short-Term Participants
While most of those who received government assistance between 2009 and 2012 were long-term participants, about a third were short-term participants who received aid for a year or less, according to the 2015 U.S. Census Bureau report.

Those more likely to be on the long-term end are those living in households with incomes below the Federal Poverty Line, children, Black people, female-headed households, those without a high school degree, and those not in the labor force.

Conversely, those most likely to be short-term participants are white, those who attended college for at least a year, and full-time workers.


Most People Receiving Government Assistance Are Children
The vast majority of Americans receiving one of the six major forms of government assistance are children below the age of 18. Nearly half of all children in the U.S.—46.7 percent—received some form of government assistance at some point during 2012, while about 2 in 5 American children on average received assistance in a given month during the same year.
https://www.thoughtco.com/who-really-re ... re-4126592
Yeah, @Suntzu put those children to work... :roll: :knife:

@One Degree
Drlee wrote:Many if not most restaurants and hotels would shut down. Construction would screech to a stop. Day care centers would shut down sending millions of moms and dads home to take care of the kids. These illegals who were previously covered by health insurance at work would all of a sudden challenge the medical system uninsured. The market would be flooded with homes for sale.
" This is hardly an inconvenience. FFS, use your head!
#14927099
@Godstud
Don’t you see how your own figures are contradictory? If 46.7% of children receive benefits, who do you think gets that money? You can’t pretend the parents and children are separate.
#14927100
READ the fucking source instead of making stupid assumptions!

All aid is not in the form of money.
The Kaiser Family Foundation reports that, in 2015, 39 percent of all children in America—30.4 million—received healthcare coverage through Medicaid. Their rate of enrollment in this program is far higher than that for adults under the age of 65, who participate at a rate of just 15 percent.

Stop cherry-picking. it makes you look stupid, and I'm pretty sure you aren't.
Last edited by Godstud on 24 Jun 2018 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
#14927102
I did not insult you, but if asking you to read the article, instead of making stupid assumptions is an insult, then maybe you don't understand what an insult is. The argument is plain to see, and your "inconvenience" argument is laughably inane.

I was responding to Suntzu's ignorance, but if you want to join him, well that's up to you. Education is a wonderful thing.
#14927103
Godstud wrote:I did not insult you, but if asking you to read the article, instead of making stupid assumptions is an insult, then maybe you don't understand what an insult is.


Please explain to me how I do not benefit from you paying for my child’s healthcare?
I also love how it implies adults choose not to take advantage. There is no friggin’ choice. There are qualifications. In my state, application for one type of benefit automatically is an application for all benefits.
Last edited by One Degree on 24 Jun 2018 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
#14927104
One Degree wrote:Please explain to me how I do not benefit from you paying for my child’s healthcare?
What does this have to do with anything?

One Degree wrote:I also love how it says seniors choose not to take advantage. There is no friggin’ choice. There are qualifications. In my state, application for one type of benefit automatically is an application for all benefits.
Why are you complaining? I thought the system was perfect, as Trump fixed everything.

If your knowledge of the US Welfare system is as good as you've shown, then I highly doubt you know anything about actually applying for it. Do you have a source to support this claim?
#14927110
What does this have to do with anything?

I love arguments of ‘pretend ignorance’. You are arguing the number of adults who receive benefits. You reduce the number dramatically by saying the children receive the benefits. It is dishonest to pretend the parents do not benefit from benefits to their children.

Why are you complaining? I thought the system was perfect, as Trump fixed everything.

I never said that. This is a dishonest distraction from the argument.

If your knowledge of the US Welfare system is as good as you've shown, then I highly doubt you know anything about actually applying for it. Do you have a source to support this claim?

I receive rental assistance since I live in government subsidized housing. My periodic reviews include consideration for all available government benefits. This is recommended by the government for efficiency and to guarantee your ignorance does not deprive you of benefits. One periodic interview replaces several separate interviews. This is one practical thing the government has done to reduce operating costs.

Edit:
@Godstud
Unfortunately, this system results in my getting $13 per month in SNAP benefits. I would prefer not to receive them, but the application process is the same whether I want them or not. This results in wasted government money, but is still preferable to applying for everything separately. Are you convinced I know more about the system than you do?
Last edited by One Degree on 24 Jun 2018 14:03, edited 1 time in total.
#14927112
One Degree wrote:I love arguments of ‘pretend ignorance’. You are arguing the number of adults who receive benefits. You reduce the number dramatically by saying the children receive the benefits. It is dishonest to pretend the parents do not benefit from benefits to their children.
I was not dishonest. Your statement was not clear. Most of those "benefits" as I showed you(from an actual source), were in the form of medical coverage.

One Degree wrote:This is a dishonest distraction from the argument.
It's a distraction, but it is not dishonest. You always claim Trump fixes everything.

One Degree wrote:I receive rental assistance since I live in government subsidized housing. My periodic reviews include consideration for all available government benefits. This is recommended by the government for efficiency and to guarantee your ignorance does not deprive you of benefits. One periodic interview replaces several separate interviews. This is one practical thing the government has done to reduce operating costs.
Oh, so you are one of those leeches on the Welfare system, and sit there and complain about other people who use Welfare. :lol: Hypocrisy thy name is One degree.

Still, no source aside from anecdotal evidence. Think you can provide a real source and not a story about you ripping off the government for Welfare that you don't need because of your fantastic benefits that you've bragged about?
Last edited by Godstud on 24 Jun 2018 14:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14927113
Godstud wrote:I was not dishonest. Your statement was not clear. Most of those "benefits" as I showed you(from an actual source), were in the form of medical coverage.

It's a distraction, but it is not dishonest. You always claim Trump fixes everything.

Oh, so you are one of those leeches on the Welfare system, and sit there and complain about other people who use Welfare. :lol: Hypocrisy thy name is One degree.

Still, no source aside from anecdotal evidence. Think you can provide a real source and not a story about you ripping off the government for Welfare that you don't need because of your good benefits?


Please show me my post where I complained about ‘leeches’? Your dishonesty in debate is tiring.
#14927115
You're the one who sided with Suntzu about 90 million Welfare recipients who should be working, not me. Maybe you should be careful what you side with when you're one of those Welfare recipients? The leech comment was mine, and was fitting given your attitude towards Welfare recipients... while being one yourself.

I am not dishonest. I backed my argument with facts. You just didn't realize what you were sticking your nose into, and you got bit. :lol:

Still, could you provide a real source, and not an anecdotal one?
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