[Finfinder]

So here is the deal.

I just returned from a trip to the Southern US. In Georgia I attended a meeting. Naturally, on breaks, the discussion turned to Trump and the mid-term elections. On the day following Cohen pleading guilty to felonies and directly implicating President Trump I mentioned it on the break. One of the men there was a graduate of The Citadel. This is the highest ranked college in the South. He holds an MBA. When I mentioned Cohen's pleading guilty to (among other things) campaign finance violations at the president's request, the man said, "I see Hillary behind this".

I was stunned. So stunned that it took me a second to call him on it. I asked him how in the name of all that is holy he could conclude that a republican attorney, being investigated by a republican US attorney, committing crimes for a republican presidential candidate and then deciding to plead guilty could have anything in the world to do with Hillary Clinton. He stuttered for a moment and then, looking sullen and dogged, moved down the table.

Is it possible for someone to be this stupid? It it possible that these folks are so indoctrinated that they simply cannot imagine thinking for themselves?

I get the trolls here. Trolls I can deal with. This guy was not trolling. He was serious. I am near to concluding that there are some people who are really that stupid. Failing that who are so committed to an ideology that they simply do not even acknowledge the existence of truth.

Folks like that are dangerous. Ask any Jew.

LOL I came away thinking this is funny. It says more about you, than the great judgment in your prose.

[blackjack21]

We have a thoroughly corrupted political system. The Clintons were the apotheosis of this corrupt system, its ultimate end product. To expect anything other than corruption to be flung from their orbit would be ludicrous.

That is the essence of the Clintons. They also seem to wear the corruption like a badge of honor--e.g., Bill Clinton meeting Loretta Lynch in a private jet while Hillary is under criminal investigation. They no longer care about hiding their corruption from the public.

It's the Clintons' over-the-top levels of sheer incompetence that guaranteed a semi-literate buffoon the keys to the White House.

Trump has some disagreeable qualities, but he's a long way from a semi-literate buffoon. That is why he was able to beat Hillary Clinton AND 16 other Republicans. Hillary was just the last person in the running to not take Trump seriously.

There won't be a damn thing left in five years but ten carrier groups, a nation of poor people, and militarized police state.

There will be plenty left, but it's owned by a very few people. America is becoming a lot like the third world now. Just look at San Francisco or LA as an example of what the future looks like. The well-to-do live in modern high rises or remote communities. The poor live on the streets of urban centers in tents, urinating and defecating in public. The working class live in motorhomes on the street, marginally safer than the poor. Is it any wonder that voters do not believe in the free trade mantra anymore, and do not want more wage depressing immigration?

The brain of the conspiracy theorist is wired differently. It's a combination of faulty pattern recognition and extreme confirmation bias.

You mean like Trump conspired with the Russians to steal the election from Hillary Clinton? If such a thing were possible, you'd have to call it brilliant. It's so utterly ridiculous and without merit that it is next to impossible to believe anything the establishment says anymore.

How many lies does one have to tell before we question everything he says? Or simply assume he is lying?

There's a pretty much stock phrase that goes something like this: "You wouldn't know x__________x if it bit you in the ass." Nobody on the right believes the deep state anymore, even when they are telling the truth. Running with the Russiagate conspiracy theory destroyed their credibility. You wonder if this guy was stupid or ignorant. You wouldn't know why if it was biting you in the ass, even when it is coming straight from your mouth. Nobody on the right believes anything from the deep state anymore. Everything Mueller and the DoJ do against Trump is suspect. The idea that the DoJ operates independently of the president to undermine him in any other context is seen simply for what it is: insubordination.

What you take as a personal assault from me is me pointing out your biggest blind spot: you are not the smartest person in the world, and Trump is not an idiot and nor are the people who support him. If you cannot get passed that, you will never be able to do anything about it. Criminals are not credible prosecutors.

[Nonsense]

It's funny how politicians that are sacked, suddenly turn gamekeeper.

I think it proves the point that the only politicians you can trust are dead one's.

[Drlee]

Nobody on the right believes the deep state anymore, even when they are telling the truth.

[Finfinder]

The OP is a projection, its laced with hypocrisy and bigotry. Flavor of the day POFO rhino/ liberal red meat ...uninspiring.

* arguing with a stranger over politics during each conference break and thinking that is normal.

* pointing out the gentleman was from a prestige college and then saying another poster is obsessed with your Mensa membership. (You do let it be known)

*my personal favorite: quoting Cohen like the guys has ever told the truth his life and then fixating that judgement to a perfect strangers intelligence and therefore abridging that to an entire group of people.

*I thought the part about the stranger " was a danger" to society was a bit dramatic but then ageing bigotry can be an inborn trait difficult to manage.


question : Did you know that Cohen's lawyer is Lanny Davis and that he is the leaker to CNN and also owns a condominium inside the Clinton's rectum?

[Sivad]

So I get it. All politics is corrupt so whatever illogical theory I have may reasonably rest on that assumption.

Since all politics is demonstrably corrupt then it's not at all illogical or unreasonable to suspect corruption in this case given the close ties between the Clintons and Wood. Your objection to the theory is based solely on the assumption that the idea of that kind of political corruption at that level is absurd, which is not only unsupported but demonstrably false. So you're the one employing fallacious logic here.

Argumentum ad lapidem (Latin: "appeal to the stone") is a logical fallacy that consists in dismissing a statement as absurd without giving proof of its absurdity.

Ad lapidem statements are fallacious because they fail to address the merits of the claim in dispute.

[Rugoz]

So the honest question is how a shady two-bit fixer, being investigated by an establishment flexian, committing crimes for a crooked real estate developer running for president and then deciding to plead guilty could have anything in the world to do with the establishment's soft coup against the executive? The answer is pretty simple, he was targeted by the investigation due close ties to Trump, the investigation turned up dirt, and they flipped him.

Obviously they are being investigated because of their connections to Trump, but let's not pretend the DOJ would not launch such an investigation against any president with that many skeletons in the closet, regardless of whether he is perceived by some people as "anti-establishment" or not. Needless to say every dirty politician under investigation will claim it's an "establishment conspiracy", since the alternative would be admission of guilt.

[Sivad]

but let's not pretend the DOJ would not launch such an investigation against any president with that many skeletons in the closet

I don't have to pretend, they rigged the investigation into Clinton's emails. There's definitely a two tier system of justice in DC, one for insiders and one for everyone else.

regardless of whether he is perceived by some people as "anti-establishment" or not.

People get confused about this, Trump is an outsider in terms of the dominant political class in Washington, but he's definitely part of the broader socio-economic establishment.

[Rugoz]

I don't have to pretend, they rigged the investigation into Clinton's emails. There's definitely a two tier system of justice in DC, one for insiders and one for everyone else.

Clinton's emails , what a joke. Some of the accusations against Trump are actually serious, and he's the POTUS and not some retired irrelevant politician.

[Finfinder]

Obviously they are being investigated because of their connections to Trump, but let's not pretend the DOJ would not launch such an investigation against any president with that many skeletons in the closet, regardless of whether he is perceived by some people as "anti-establishment" or not. Needless to say every dirty politician under investigation will claim it's an "establishment conspiracy", since the alternative would be admission of guilt.

I disagree it is an investigation with a predetermined outcome. The only facts are the actual collusion was with the Obama executive branch, including the FBI and DOJ. These are all facts. There is literally no evidence of Trump collusion at this point. They ruined a general’s life trying to flip him, again had nothing to do with Trump and they got a guy who committed crimes 13 years ago, nothing to do with Trump. Its hilarious that now Cohen is the star witness. Has that guy ever told the truth in his life? To add a cherry on top Cohen's attorney is a Democrat, Lanny Davis who leaked the story to guess who? The Clinton News Network CNN. Funny, Lanny Davis has worked for and lived in a condo up in the Clinton's rectum for years. I have facts you have nothing but bias and accusations.

[Suntzu]

Clinton's emails , what a joke. Some of the accusations against Trump are actually serious, and he's the POTUS and not some retired irrelevant politician.

Yep, a joke. The director of the FBI testified before congress that Hillary had compromised classified information which constituted a felony.

[Finfinder]

nothing to see here

Strzok Joins List of 25 Top FBI, DOJ Officials Who Have Been Recently Fired, Demoted, or Resigned

https://www.theepochtimes.com/strzok-jo ... 24607.html


James Comey, director (fired)
Andrew McCabe, deputy director (fired)
Peter Strzok, counterintelligence expert (fired)
Lisa Page, attorney (demoted; resigned)
James Rybicki, chief of staff (resigned)
James Baker, general counsel (resigned)
Mike Kortan, assistant director for public affairs (resigned)
Josh Campbell, special assistant to James Comey (resigned)
James Turgal, executive assistant director (resigned)
Greg Bower, assistant director for office of congressional affairs (resigned)
Michael Steinbach, executive assistant director (resigned)
John Giacalone, executive assistant director (resigned)

FBI agent Peter Strzok was finally fired Aug. 10 after more than a year of intrigue surrounding his bias against President Donald Trump.

He joins more than two dozen other top FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) officials who have been fired, demoted, or resigned in the wake of investigations of the 2016 presidential election—in yet another confirmation that the DOJ/FBI swamp is being drained.

The once-respected Federal Bureau of Investigation was compromised by politically motivated insiders, including James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Strzok, and many others. As more evidence of corruption comes to light, their schemes have rapidly begun to unravel. Such schemes included the exoneration of Hillary Clinton for her illegal email practices, the stonewalling of the separate investigation of the Clinton Foundation relating to Uranium One, and the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) investigation of Trump associates that’s known as “Spygate.”

Much ink has been spilled in detailing the machinations of Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and Lisa Page, as well as other former DOJ officials such as Loretta Lynch, Sally Yates, and Bruce Ohr. Shockingly, Ohr’s wife, Nellie Ohr, worked for the Clinton-financed Fusion GPS—the firm behind the infamous anti-Trump dossier.

[Godstud]

The director of the FBI testified before congress that Hillary had compromised classified information which constituted a felony.

This is simply not true, or she'd have actually faced charges.

The reason that the FBI did not recommend felony prosecution, however, is that investigators never found “a smoking gun,” Comey says. They lacked an email or other record that established criminal intent – perhaps a warning to Clinton that she shouldn’t use a private server or any “indication of her obstructing justice.” Absent such a damning piece of evidence, there was no precedent to prosecute.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... mp-627982/

[Stormsmith]

They ruined a general’s life trying to flip him, again had nothing to do with Trump

Flynn offered repeatedly to talk, saying he had plenty to tell.

[blackjack21]

Obviously they are being investigated because of their connections to Trump, but let's not pretend the DOJ would not launch such an investigation against any president with that many skeletons in the closet, regardless of whether he is perceived by some people as "anti-establishment" or not.

That's not what is bothering people. What is bothering people is that the DOJ is the party that put the skeletons in the closet in the first place, and then ran around claiming that there was some sort of Russia conspiracy.

Clinton's emails , what a joke.

Clinton committed a crime, and there is copious evidence that she did. She also covered it up with the aid of the FBI.

Some of the accusations against Trump are actually serious, and he's the POTUS and not some retired irrelevant politician.

There are no charges against Trump.

They ruined a general’s life trying to flip him, again had nothing to do with Trump and they got a guy who committed crimes 13 years ago, nothing to do with Trump.

What's interesting is that his former business partner at Manafort Davis just gave John McCain's eulogy--McCain was part of the dirty dossier scam too, as was Mr. Davis.

To add a cherry on top Cohen's attorney is a Democrat, Lanny Davis who leaked the story to guess who? The Clinton News Network CNN. Funny, Lanny Davis has worked for and lived in a condo up in the Clinton's rectum for years.

He also apparently lied to CNN intimiating that Cohen was privy to whether Trump knew about the meeting (set up by a Clinton donor) with his son and Veselnitskaya (who was given an immigration parole by the DoJ, because her visa application was rejected by the SoS; and, she met with Hillary Clinton's opposition researcher before and after meeting with Trump Jr.). The ties back to Clinton and her friends in the DoJ for pretty much everyone in this scandal is obviously beyond a coincidence.

:roll: This is simply not true, or she'd have actually faced charges.

Strzok and Comey made sure that wouldn't happen on their watch. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Bill Clinton met with Loretta Lynch on a government airplane a few days before this deal went down.

They lacked an email or other record that established criminal intent – perhaps a warning to Clinton that she shouldn’t use a private server or any “indication of her obstructing justice.

The statute doesn't require criminal intent.

[Sivad]

Clinton's emails , what a joke.

It's a felony that everyone but insiders are prosecuted for. You might think it's not a serious crime but it does show that there is a two tier justice system.

Some of the accusations against Trump are actually serious, and he's the POTUS and not some retired irrelevant politician.

The accusations against Clinton were far more serious, everything from pay to play influence peddling to obstruction of justice to evidence tampering.

Clinton committed a crime, and there is copious evidence that she did. She also covered it up with the aid of the FBI.

And let's not forget why she committed that crime, she did it so there would be no evidence of her illicit dealings on the official record. Conducting official government business off the record should be a serious crime, at the very least it warrants an investigation into why anyone would be doing that in the first place.

[Sivad]

what a joke.

The joke is thinking Hillary Clinton isn't corrupt to the core. Clinton is a career criminal.

[Rugoz]

It's a felony that everyone but insiders are prosecuted for. You might think it's not a serious crime but it does show that there is a two tier justice system.

What's the felony here? Sending classified information over an unsecured channel?

The accusations against Clinton were far more serious, everything from pay to play influence peddling to obstruction of justice to evidence tampering.

For which there was no evidence. Trump is accused of colluding with a foreign power (and obstruction of justice) and he's the bloody POTUS. There may also be no evidence for that, but it's a far more serious.

Conducting official government business off the record should be a serious crime, at the very least it warrants an investigation into why anyone would be doing that in the first place.

It wasn't off the record. And by the way, she had the right to delete personal emails, be it on a private or government server. The only issue was that she used a private server that wasn't sufficiently secure to communicate classified information.

Jeez.

The joke is thinking Hillary Clinton isn't corrupt to the core. Clinton is a career criminal.

Yawn. More bullshit. She's a lawyer, she knows how to avoid conflict with the law, just like other politicians. That's not the issue here. The issue is the "corruption" that is possible within the law.

[Sivad]

What's the felony here? Sending classified information over an unsecured channel?

Mishandling classified material is a felony.

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both

For which there was no evidence.

There is evidence, there just isn't an investigation.

Trump is accussed of colluding with a foreign power

Not a crime. Trump is perfectly free to collude with any power that the US isn't at war with.

(and obstruction of justice)

There's far less evidence for that than for Clinton's racketeering.

and he's the bloody POTUS.

That's the point, POTUS is being targeted by the deep state because he's a loose cannon.

It wasn't off the record.

It absolutely was off the record on a private server in her residence. Not only is it a felony to mishandle classified information but she was also in violation of FOIA and other federal records requirements.

Dan Metcalfe, a former head of the Justice Department's Office of Information and Privacy, said this gave her even tighter control over her emails by not involving a third party such as Google and helped prevent their disclosure by Congressional subpoena. He added: "She managed successfully to insulate her official emails, categorically, from the FOIA, both during her tenure at State and long after her departure from it—perhaps forever", making it "a blatant circumvention of the FOIA by someone who unquestionably knows better".

Jason R. Baron, the former head of litigation at NARA, described the practice as "highly unusual" but not a violation of the law. In a separate interview, he said, "It is very difficult to conceive of a scenario—short of nuclear winter—where an agency would be justified in allowing its cabinet-level head officer to solely use a private email communications channel for the conduct of government business."[41][51][52] Baron told the Senate Judiciary Committee in May 2015 that "any employee's decision to conduct all email correspondence through a private email network, using a non-.gov address, is inconsistent with long-established policies and practices under the Federal Records Act and NARA regulations governing all federal agencies."

Inspector General Linick wrote that he "found no evidence that staff in the Office of the Legal Adviser reviewed or approved Secretary Clinton's personal system", and also found that multiple State employees who raised concerns regarding Clinton's server were told that the Office of the Legal Adviser had approved it, and were further told to "never speak of the Secretary's personal email system again".

And by the way, she had the right to delete personal Emails, be it on a private or government server.

Those emails were under congressional subpoena, so no, she did not have the right to delete them. And the FBI recovered over 17,000 emails she had deleted which were work related(property of the US State Department).

The only issue was that she used a private server that wasn't sufficiently secure to communicate classified information.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Rugoz]

Mishandling classified material is a felony.

She didn't "knowingly remove documents with the intent to retain them". So no, doesn't qualify.

Not a crime. Trump is perfectly free to collude with any power that the US isn't at war with.

This has been discussed ad absurdum in other threads, it depends on what they find, i.e. on how far collusion went wrt. the hacking.

That's the point, POTUS is being targeted by the deep state because he's a loose cannon.

The "deep state" would have stopped the FBI investigation into Clinton's emails at the very beginning. Instead the investigation continued right up to the election, damaging the Clinton campaign and helping Trump win. Clearly the deep state is on the side of Trump. QED. Use your brain, moron!

It absolutely was off the record on a private server in her residence. Not only is it a felony to mishandle classified information but she was also in violation of FOIA and other federal records requirements.

I didn't know she used a private (i.e. self-maintained) server, fair enough. But the text you quoted says it's not a violation of the law. So still not a felony.

Those emails were under congressional subpoena, so no, she did not have the right to delete them. And the FBI recovered over 17,000 emails she had deleted which were work related(property of the US State Department).

I quote:

March 4, 2015: The Benghazi committee issues a subpoena requiring Clinton to turn over all emails from her private server related to the incident in Libya.

Related to the incident in Libya, not all private emails.

Then:

The FBI’s investigation did find several thousand emails among those deleted that were work-related and should have been turned over to the State Department. However, FBI Director James Comey said in a July 2016 statement that the FBI investigation "found no evidence that any of the additional work-related emails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-mete ... -33000-em/

So apparently some of deleted emails were work-related. Which doesn't necessarily surprise me, given than they had to go through 10ks of emails and filter out the work-related. Still, is it a felony by itself or only when they were "intentionally deleted to conceal them"?

I find this entire email controversy absurd for another reason, unrelated to the question of legality. Nothing stops officials from using private email servers or in fact private phones for communicating things they don't want on the record. In fact if Clinton wanted to conceal certain communication, using a private server for ALL communication was the dumbest things to do, since it made ALL communication a subject of investigation. She could have used a government server for the "on the record stuff" and a private server or the phone for the "off the record stuff".