[Kaiserschmarrn]

That is the sensible approach to deal with those that are least fortunate

I'd like to see evidence that the people coming to the US illegally or seeking asylum are the least fortunate, in general or even within their own countries.

[Pants-of-dog]

It has without a doubt unless you want to discount saving lives and preventing life long suffering from disease. Furthermore, child mortality is so low due to a combination of western inventions and interventions. More generally, the west through discoveries, technology and global humanitarian organisations cannot be beaten when it comes to "doing good", historically or compared with other countries or regions.

This was never meant as an excuse. Recognition and acknowledgment of these basic facts are sorely missing though, as evidenced by your and Potemkin's comment.

I honestly doubt that the USA has saved more lives in Central America than it has killed, or somehow aided in the killing of by supporting the dictatorship or paramilitary group.

The US is not predominantly, much less solely, responsible for violence, and violence is not the sole cause for creating refugees either.

The political instability is one of the causes of violence, and the USA is predominantly responsibke for that, insofar as they supported all the dictatorships that caused the instability.

The US is also responsible for the violence surrounding the drug trade, since they are by far the main consumers of said drugs. And they arm the paramilitaries that supposedly target the drug dealers.

In fact, most of the weapons used by both sides in the ongoing “war on drugs” come from the USA.

There are economic reasons as well. And the US, with its CAFTA-DR deal, has been flooding the central American markets wih its exports, causing economic instability.

To be honest, I cannot think of a single cause for migration for which the USAis not significantly responsible.

[XogGyux]

I'd like to see evidence that the people coming to the US illegally or seeking asylum are the least fortunate, in general or even within their own countries.

That’s easy. They just traveled 4000km with whatever they could carry on their bodies, with children. If that is not evidence for desperation of a less fortunate person I don’t know what is. That is unless you are suggesting that they left their beautiful lives behind with their gorgeous haciendas and safe schools to walk/drive 4000km just to fun.k off with trump’s hair?
I am not saying all illegal immigrants are less fortunate (after all, statistically many stay on tourist or work visas so chances are their financial and social situation is at the very least stable) but when you have people that travel for this long, with this little, facing all the danger and stigmatization they do... it is quite evident they are not fortunate.

[XogGyux]

These are individuals. I prefer not to dehumanize them by using stereotypes.

Write a letter to your commander in chief to explain your point.

[Albert]

That’s easy. They just traveled 4000km with whatever they could carry on their bodies, with children. If that is not evidence for desperation of a less fortunate person I don’t know what is. That is unless you are suggesting that they left their beautiful lives behind with their gorgeous haciendas and safe schools to walk/drive 4000km just to fun.k off with trump’s hair?
I am not saying all illegal immigrants are less fortunate (after all, statistically many stay on tourist or work visas so chances are their financial and social situation is at the very least stable) but when you have people that travel for this long, with this little, facing all the danger and stigmatization they do... it is quite evident they are not fortunate.

How do you know they are not criminals running away from the law?

[Hindsite]

I am not saying all illegal immigrants are less fortunate (after all, statistically many stay on tourist or work visas so chances are their financial and social situation is at the very least stable) but when you have people that travel for this long, with this little, facing all the danger and stigmatization they do... it is quite evident they are not fortunate.

It is also going to become evident to them that they are not fortunate when they are not allowed in.
HalleluYah

[XogGyux]

How do you know they are not criminals running away from the law?

How do you know they are not martians trying to steal our socks. What kind of questions are these, we have at our disposition the most sophisticated information system that has ever existed in the world. Screening and vetting these people would be trivial for our government if that is what we want. Stop pretending that this is their real issue here. Are the kids criminals too? 3 year old rapist murderer? Or maybe you thought the criminal mothers actually stole some random kids to appear less dangerous.

We definitely have resources that would make vetting this people a trivial matter for our government. And yes, it is possible that a tiny percentage that gets through the craps either are criminals or have the potential to become criminals but that is like everything in society.

When a woman is about to give birth to a baby... there is a significant percentage that the baby is gonna be a criminal (according to all-knowing google it is 5% chance a baby will be a criminal!), yet I don’t hear you screaming to put a wall around the woman’s vagina, in fact I am quite certain many of you are crazy opossed to anything that could prevent that delivery. So I am really skeptic that this is really the reason.

[XogGyux]

It is also going to become evident to them that they are not fortunate when they are not allowed in.
HalleluYah

Laugh all you want. I am not the one that believes in magical gnomes that punishes people that are not good and selfless during their lives.
Hellalluyah for you too sir.

[Albert]

How do you know they are not martians trying to steal our socks. What kind of questions are these, we have at our disposition the most sophisticated information system that has ever existed in the world. Screening and vetting these people would be trivial for our government if that is what we want. Stop pretending that this is their real issue here. Are the kids criminals too? 3 year old rapist murderer? Or maybe you thought the criminal mothers actually stole some random kids to appear less dangerous.

We definitely have resources that would make vetting this people a trivial matter for our government. And yes, it is possible that a tiny percentage that gets through the craps either are criminals or have the potential to become criminals but that is like everything in society.

When a woman is about to give birth to a baby... there is a significant percentage that the baby is gonna be a criminal (according to all-knowing google it is 5% chance a baby will be a criminal!), yet I don’t hear you screaming to put a wall around the woman’s vagina, in fact I am quite certain many of you are crazy opossed to anything that could prevent that delivery. So I am really skeptic that this is really the reason.

Oh really? I never knew there is a global criminal record system. Wow man.

I wonder how this system identifies people is through precision facial recognition and DNA?

[XogGyux]

Oh really? I never knew there is a global criminal record system. Wow man.

I wonder how this system identifies people is through precision facial recognition and DNA?

Dude... Let’s stop pretending this is the issue at all. This is not the first, not the last wave of refugees in the world, we are not the only country that takes refugees and by en large the myth of the criminal immigrant has be debunked in all colors and shapes.

[One Degree]

Dude... Let’s stop pretending this is the issue at all. This is not the first, not the last wave of refugees in the world, we are not the only country that takes refugees and by en large the myth of the criminal immigrant has be debunked in all colors and shapes.

Silliness. Again you bring up an issue then don’t want to discuss it. We have no such easy method of identifying these people. You claim they come from countries where gangs put them in danger and then claim it is unlikely criminals are from this area. You can’t have it both ways.

[XogGyux]

Silliness. Again you bring up an issue then don’t want to discuss it. We have no such easy method of identifying these people. You claim they come from countries where gangs put them in danger and then claim it is unlikely criminals are from this area. You can’t have it both ways.

Simpleminded individuals that can only deal in black and white situations. Us vs them, US vs the World, good vs bad. World is not simple, you want to paint it into a they are all bad vs they are all angels because the moment people admit that it is unlikely they are all 100% angels you are left with the default option that they are all bad. That is not just stupid but irresponsible and ignorant as well. The world is in hues of gray and it was stated already multiple times before that every time there is migration, the migrants have about the same percentage of criminals/crime as the population they move into and sometimes even less. Of course that you gonna find a few bad apples when you have thousands of people but the same can be said if you grab 1000 random people from NY, from Alabama or from your favorite state/city/town.


And BTW, dealing with these people through asylum and legal process not only save you and me money, but also helps with taxes AND we know who is who rather than have millions of undocumented people that pay no taxes, have little to no documentation so when they do screw up or commit a crime it is harder to find and/or bring the right person to justice.

The fact is, these people are dirt poor, scared to their minds and desperate. They have literally little to nothing to lose. Unless you are prepared to shot them in the face for trespassing through the border (I am certainly not) they will keep trying and trying and will eventually get through, because our borders are fking inmmense and there are thousands of potential ways to get in. Swimming, climbing, underground tunnels, etc. When people are fearful for their lives or the economic condition is so fking bad. They have nothing to lose and they keep trying. You can keep wasting billions of dollars trying to get them out and they will figure out a way to beat your defenses with a few bucks.

Let me illustrate this for you. It is not as common anymore, but it still happens from time to time. Cuban rafters... shitty rafts that most people would not dare to go more than a couple of miles off the coast, certainly not far enough as to lose view of dry land. Anybody crazy enough to get into one of those things are willing to die trying, and certainly many have perished as such. You think a 8 or even 10 or 15 foot wall with some pointy sharp edges on top is going to be a deterrent when 100miles of treacherous caribbean gulf current and shitty raft and sharks was not? Now, make the situation 100x worse because honduras and guatemala are way worse than cuba and you get your answer. Wall won't work, stopping them will most likely just ensure that they get anyway through other, still illegal, means and instead live illegally, without paying taxes and with far less possibilities to contribute to society.

This country was founded by immigrants. This hate against immigrants is hypocrisy at best, treasonous at worse.

[One Degree]

Simpleminded individuals that can only deal in black and white situations. Us vs them, US vs the World, good vs bad. World is not simple, you want to paint it into a they are all bad vs they are all angels because the moment people admit that it is unlikely they are all 100% angels you are left with the default option that they are all bad. That is not just stupid but irresponsible and ignorant as well. The world is in hues of gray and it was stated already multiple times before that every time there is migration, the migrants have about the same percentage of criminals/crime as the population they move into and sometimes even less. Of course that you gonna find a few bad apples when you have thousands of people but the same can be said if you grab 1000 random people from NY, from Alabama or from your favorite state/city/town.


And BTW, dealing with these people through asylum and legal process not only save you and me money, but koalso helps with taxes AND we know who is who rather than have millions of undocumented people that pay no taxes, have little to no documentation so when they do screw up or commit a crime it is harder to find and/or bring the right person to justice.

The fact is, these people are dirt poor, scared to their minds and desperate. They have literally little to nothing to lose. Unless you are prepared to shot them in the face for trespassing through the border (I am certainly not) they will keep trying and trying and will eventually get through, because our borders are fking inmmense and there are thousands of potential ways to get in. Swimming, climbing, underground tunnels, etc. When people are fearful for their lives or the economic condition is so fking bad. They have nothing to lose and they keep trying. You can keep wasting billions of dollars trying to get them out and they will figure out a way to beat your defenses with a few bucks.

Let me illustrate this for you. It is not as common anymore, but it still happens from time to time. Cuban rafters... shitty rafts that most people would not dare to go more than a couple of miles off the coast, certainly not far enough as to lose view of dry land. Anybody crazy enough to get into one of those things are willing to die trying, and certainly many have perished as such. You think a 8 or even 10 or 15 foot wall with some pointy sharp edges on top is going to be a deterrent when 100miles of treacherous caribbean gulf current and shitty raft and sharks was not? Now, make the situation 100x worse because honduras and guatemala are way worse than cuba and you get your answer. Wall won't work, stopping them will most likely just ensure that they get anyway through other, still illegal, means and instead live illegally, without paying taxes and with far less possibilities to contribute to society.

This country was founded by immigrants. This hate against immigrants is hypocrisy at best, treasonous at worse.

I bolded your own hypocrisy. You go on a tirade about stereotyping immigrants, then you not only stereotype them yourself but stereotype everyone wanting stronger borders as ‘hate filled’.
BTW, I have no problem with shooting those trying to enter illegally. Why would it not be part of our national security? Defending your borders without weapons isn’t much of a defense.
Your opinions on who these immigrants are has no basis except your imagination and propaganda. You have no idea who they are.
Tell me, how many people moving to the US does it take to make Latin America a better place? It is a stupid solution for their problems. Everyone can’t simply move to one country to avoid their problems.

[Drlee]

BTW, I have no problem with shooting those trying to enter illegally. Why would it not be part of our national security? Defending your borders without weapons isn’t much of a defense.

The Nazis had no problem gassing babies for the crime of being Jews. Join the club.

You just made a statement that is beyond frightening. You do realize that the "crime" for which you would have some soldier who has to live with it for his entire life, take a bead and kill a woman or child, bears a $50.00 fine and no jail time?

Here is the less obvious problem with your (I hope) simple trolling. Many people think as you do. They believe immigration is no different from the attack on Pearl Harbor. That it is an "invasion". They are simply not smart enough to understand that this is not an invasion force of millions. It is an invasion force of one or two people.

I do not believe that economic migrants, such as most of them in the caravan, should be allowed in the country. I believe they should be sent home to apply for entry in accordance with our laws. But you would have us shoot them. Tell us you are trolling. If not seek serious medical care. Soon.

[One Degree]

The Nazis had no problem gassing babies for the crime of being Jews. Join the club.

You just made a statement that is beyond frightening. You do realize that the "crime" for which you would have some soldier who has to live with it for his entire life, take a bead and kill a woman or child, bears a $50.00 fine and no jail time?

Here is the less obvious problem with your (I hope) simple trolling. Many people think as you do. They believe immigration is no different from the attack on Pearl Harbor. That it is an "invasion". They are simply not smart enough to understand that this is not an invasion force of millions. It is an invasion force of one or two people.

I do not believe that economic migrants, such as most of them in the caravan, should be allowed in the country. I believe they should be sent home to apply for entry in accordance with our laws. But you would have us shoot them. Tell us you are trolling. If not seek serious medical care. Soon.

Curious, you made the immigrants a woman and a child. Liberal deception? Why not use a 20 year old male as your example?
7000 to 15,000 illegals storming your border at once is not ‘one innocent woman and child’. I am not trolling. If they refuse to turn back at an illegal crossing point then shooting them is justified. The same as it would be if 10 people tried to force entry into my home. I don’t adhere to your utopian principles that serve no practical purpose. They are not innocent. They are violating our national security even if they are a female with a child.
I am all for offering assistance to other countries if they ask for it. I see no practical reason why we should accept the supposed victims of these countries.
As I said earlier, how many do we need to accept before their countries become a better place? It’s idiotic. We have done nothing to solve the problem. We just relieve the pressure on these countries so they can continue to manufacture more immigrants for us. We are abetting the situation by allowing this.

[Drlee]

Curious, you made the immigrants a woman and a child. Liberal deception? Why not use a 20 year old male as your example?

Suit yourself. You advocate shooting people for an infraction that bears a $50.00 fine. What would you do for littering? Cut their balls off and roast them alive. It has 10 times the fine in Arizona.

They are not innocent. They are violating our national security even if they are a female with a child.

Nonsense. Utter nonsense. A young woman and child do not "violate our national security". I do not even know anyone so stupid that they would believe this.

If they refuse to turn back at an illegal crossing point then shooting them is justified.

Idiocy. We all know now exactly how Trump got elected. He has always been a bottom feeder.

[RhetoricThug]

Thank you for the compliment. Sorry for not saying so immediately.

I don't expect a thank you or apology. I simply want you to love your neighbor. It can be hard, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against misperception, against political myth, against the programs of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Do not empower keyboard cartoons. Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

-One Love

[One Degree]

Suit yourself. You advocate shooting people for an infraction that bears a $50.00 fine. What would you do for littering? Cut their balls off and roast them alive. It has 10 times the fine in Arizona.



Nonsense. Utter nonsense. A young woman and child do not "violate our national security". I do not even know anyone so stupid that they would believe this.



Idiocy. We all know now exactly how Trump got elected. He has always been a bottom feeder.

It is much easier to call something idiocy in a theoretical concept than it is in reality. Would you shoot them if strangers were coming into your house and refused to listen to your demands they didn’t?
How about when you were younger and had a family to protect?

[One Degree]

I don't expect a thank you or apology. I simply want you to love your neighbor. It can be hard, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against misperception, against political myth, against the programs of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Do not empower keyboard cartoons. Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

-One Love

I totally agree and admit I often fall short, but sometimes the best love is tough love.

[RhetoricThug]

I totally agree and admit I often fall short, but sometimes the best love is tough love.

Unconditional love will stand tall and feverish hate shall fall short. A warm heart worn on the sleeve will melt a cold shoulder. Tough love is the language of Nature. A potter's firm and steady hand shapes soft clay, whilst day divides the night.

Strike a balance,

-RT