"No. They are both self evident"
No they aren't.
Three of the states with the highest populations of immigrants are New York, California and Arizona.
All three states are among the 10 states with the highest minimum wage. So there is obviously little effective downward pressure on wages. (Remember that most illegal immigrants work legit jobs and pay taxes.
But maybe they are displacing citizen workers?
Come on OneDegree. Come on Albert. Come on Hindsite. Let's get those immigration officers off of the border and into the local Marriott, farmer's fields and the kitchen of your favorite pub. Let's check documents there and when we find illegal workers arrest the owners and managers who knowingly hired these workers. You can arrest the workers too if it will make you feel better. About one week of this and every congressman in America would be crying for Amnesty.
All three of these states have historically low unemployment rates. All under 5% which is considered by economists to be full employment.
But what happens if the unemployment rate drops too much? Inflation happens.
Wouldn't it be fun to see what would happen if we deported 30 million workers like some mental midgets believe we ought to?
I also note that some here are carping about people who do not work. One number forwarded was 50 million chronically unemployed. This number is, of course, just made up. The Labor Department puts the number of unemployed and just over 7 million people.
One of the problems of figuring this stuff out is determining how many people work in the "gig" economy. I do. This week I am unemployed. That is if you consider that I do not have a specific job for which I am being paid this week. Next week I will earn what a minimum wage worker earns in four months. But for all of the statistic makers I appear to be unemployed unless you look at income.
Another group that is not considered is the one comprised of young retirees. There are a growing number of them. They combine inherited money with the occasional gig and simply do not work in an traditional sense.
Then, in the gig economy, are many illegal aliens. They do gigs. Today they paint, tomorrow they mow and Sunday they help someone move. What do they earn? Around here (Arizona) about $15 - $20 per hour. Or about $100 - $150 per day if you pay them that way. These folks are making reasonably good money when you consider that they do not pay taxes on it for the most part. (And this is true whether they are here legally or were born here when it comes to this kind of job.)
So figure one of these guys works 5 days a week and averages $600.00 per week. That is over $30,000 tax free. Share a house with 4 or five other guys doing the same thing and you can support your family in Honduras and have enough left over for some beers and plenty of food.
Are they bad for the economy? How could they be? Sending money outside of the country is problematic but imagine the inflation if everyone had to pay contractor rates for these jobs? Talk about inflation. That would eat up American wealth a lot faster than a few billion sent to other countries. These same people buy health insurance, food, housing, cars, Iphones and rubber duckies. Lots of rubber duckies. So that money goes right back into the economy and, with the exception of the income tax, taxed just like your money and mine.
Is it possible for illegal workers to drive down wages? You bet. But here is the deal. They are not driving down the wages of workers working above board except for in a few very limited fields. But we really don't need to develop a farm-worker career path. I am OK with paying $4.00 for a tomato. Are you? Are you willing to pay $3.00 per head for lettuce?
Sometimes I have a job or two done around the house. I speak Spanish and in my neighborhood there are plenty of people doing odd jobs. Some may be here illegally and some are most definitely not. I don't ask. It is none of my business.
One more point. I work the gig economy. I pay my taxes (including self-employment taxes). Even as old as I am I could easily get a real job. I don't want one. I like being the boss. I like controlling how much I earn by acquiring new skills and increasing the hours in which I work. (Or don't work.) How am I so different from that yard man I just paid $150.00 for trimming my trees? One major way. Because so many people are out to deport him, he can't even consider paying taxes on what he earns. He can't get a bank account. He risks arrest if he uses someone else's social security number, etc.
Reagan figured this out and gave amnesty to a shit ton of illegals. These folks now are paying taxes, building the economy and generally behaving just like the rest of us.
I want controlled immigration. I want employers to have to play by the rules. But that is where it starts. If you "nationalists" want white legal workers to have first choice then you had better be willing to put a few employers in jail to get it. You had better be willing to shut down some pretty big employers to make your point. And you had better be willing to pay $200.00 a night for a bottom tier motel, $50.00 for dinner at that hotel and $4.00 for that tomato you need to finish off your $10.00 salad.
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- By Tainari88
- By litwin