[jimjam]

In Trump World California is home to rabid Democrat Liberal scum who are not entitled to be represented by the POTUS. He won't even travel there due to the fact that his handlers cannot gather together a screaming fawning crowd of dummies to surround and welcome him. As usual he focuses on money in lieu of human feelings and suffering.

In a tweet by Trump on Saturday the president argued: “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

Asked to respond to the President's tweet Sunday, Brown called California's recent battles with massive wildfires "the new abnormal.'' He added: “Scientists and the engineers and the firefighters all tell us forest management is one element’’ to control them, but warned governments must address “a whole range of actions'' to address a problem he said may cost "billions" of dollars to tackle.

“Managing all the forests everywhere we can does not stop climate change — and those that deny that are definitely contributing to the tragedy,’’ Brown said. “The chickens are coming home to roost. This is real here.” He advised that governments and officials need to be “pulling together in these tragic circumstances and thinking wisely,’’ while being “collaborative.’’

[One Degree]

Typical double talk. He agrees with Trump while trying to disguise it with platitudes. It was obvious mismanagement to allow people to live in huge forest areas. It was mismanagement not to include huge firebreaks. These mistakes were made long ago and will be difficult to correct, but they were stupid planning.

[Crantag]

Typical double talk. He agrees with Trump while trying to disguise it with platitudes. It was obvious mismanagement to allow people to live in huge forest areas. It was mismanagement not to include huge firebreaks. These mistakes were made long ago and will be difficult to correct, but they were stupid planning.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time here, I'm going to be brief.

Forest mismanagement is certainly one of the primary causes, but not the only primary cause.

I'm from Oregon, which is forest fire country, but not as bad as California.

I'm not an expert, moreover on fire science. I have friends that could address this better than I could (in terms of the proximate circumstances, but I haven't phoned them in a good bit, so wouldn't do so right now).

I've driven through many of the forests, and seen dry timber all over the place.

Here's a bit of the rub. The west coast forests are vast. It would take at least a few billion probably to put serious forest management theories into practice.

Trump's appeals are thinly veiled advocacy for clear cutting (the legacy of which is among the principle causative factors for the current degenerate state of the forests, ironically (though not really ironic, as Trump really doesn't give a shit)).

The California drought, which is years long, is maybe the biggest factor.

I can't tell you what's behind the California drought. Climate change is worthy of conversation. California water policy is worthy of conversation.

But this is above my head; I can't make a reasonable statement on what is behind the drought, as it is well out of my wheelhouse.

There is one thing that is sure. Trump's statement was absolutely idiotic, especially while a crisis is ongoing (and in November, this is unprecedented in Northern California, and not really normal in Southern California).

In Northern California and Southern Oregon (where there are also fires, and where I'm from), forest fires in November are really unprecedented.

Let alone California having the worst fire in terms of damage and deaths (over 61,000 buildings destroyed and 29 confirmed deaths--though definitely more whereas the previous record was 31); and tons of acres burned is completely, indeed, abnormal (in November). The fire is 25% contained. It is fairly likely to grow.

There are some dozen fires burning in California.

Look up a map of the Southern California fire. It has burned straight up to a wide stretch of coast.

Stop trying to defend the indefensible, merely because you love Trump for some strange reason. Try to think for yourself.

This is a serious situation, and Trump's statement was quite despicable, though also quite to character. He is not fit for the office, but he ain't my president. I'll go ahead and give my allegiance to Xi Jinping. At least he's competent.

[jimjam]

Typical double talk. He agrees with Trump while trying to disguise it with platitudes. It was obvious mismanagement to allow people to live in huge forest areas. It was mismanagement not to include huge firebreaks. These mistakes were made long ago and will be difficult to correct, but they were stupid planning.

Because of the effect of climate change, wildfires are increasing in size, both in California and across the western U.S., says Park Williams, a fire expert at Columbia University. Since the 1980’s, he and a colleague reported in 2016, climate change contributed to an extra 10 million acres of burning in western forests— an area about the size of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined.

Changes in precipitation are another factor. California's summer dry season has also been lengthening. Each extra day lets plants dry out more, increasing their susceptibility to burning.

“Usually—or, I don't want to even say usually anymore because things are changing so fast—we get some rains around Halloween that wet things down,” says Faith Kearns, a scientist at University of California Institute for Water Resources in Oakland. But in the past few years, those rains haven't come until much later in the autumn—November, or even December.

That may seem like a minor issue, but it has big effects. In the fall, California is often buffeted by whipping winds. So if a fire gets sparked, it can spread fast and hard. That's what happened this year, as well as in last year's Thomas fire.

I'm certain that 1 Degree would agree with me that should the fools making the above statements had only heeded Donald's wise observation that "climate change" is a farce/plot foisted upon the world by the Chinese they would not have reached the ridiculous conclusion that global warming had anything at all to do with the recent California fires.

he ain't my president

Nor mine. He clearly represents the best interests of the wealthiest 1% of America. I am, for sure, way down in the lower 99% somewhere .

[Steve_American]

If Trump thinks that better forest management is called for,
then he should introduce legislation to fund a US Gov. program of exactly that in all US Gov. land in Calif. and the west in general, too.
Will he do that? Hell, no! . . Why not?
Because Calif. is a Dem state and he doesn't even help Repud states for the most part.

PS -- I wonder what the US National Park Service thinks about how AGW is going to change the way they manage the forests in our National Parks.

[Hindsite]

In Trump World California is home to rabid Democrat Liberal scum who are not entitled to be represented by the POTUS. He won't even travel there due to the fact that his handlers cannot gather together a screaming fawning crowd of dummies to surround and welcome him. As usual he focuses on money in lieu of human feelings and suffering.

You are very uninformed. President Trump did travel there and was seen with Governor Brown visiting the area burned by the so-called camp fire.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/california-wi ... d=59240106

In a tweet by Trump on Saturday the president argued: “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

President Trump forgot to mention that for many years before all these large forest fires began, the tree-huggers that live in California had protested against the lumber industry from cutting down trees for lumber. This resulted in crazy legislation in California by the liberal Democrats that created large areas of forest in need of management.

Asked to respond to the President's tweet Sunday, Brown called California's recent battles with massive wildfires "the new abnormal.'' He added: “Scientists and the engineers and the firefighters all tell us forest management is one element’’ to control them, but warned governments must address “a whole range of actions'' to address a problem he said may cost "billions" of dollars to tackle.

“Managing all the forests everywhere we can does not stop climate change — and those that deny that are definitely contributing to the tragedy,’’ Brown said. “The chickens are coming home to roost. This is real here.” He advised that governments and officials need to be “pulling together in these tragic circumstances and thinking wisely,’’ while being “collaborative.’’

Yes, "the chickens are coming home to roost" in California for them paying too much attention to the "tree-huggers" there in the past. Now it has turned into a big problem. since only God can change the climate, not man. Praise the Lord.

[One Degree]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... man-cause/

As usual, there are lots of discrepancies in reporting the cause. The National Park service says 80% of fires nationally are from lightning, but according to this article California’s are 95% human caused as reported by California firefighters.
This definitely points at humans in forest areas as the cause rather than global warming. Global warming would not be a factor if humans did not start them in the first place.

[Steve_American]

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/08/news-california-wildfire-arson-human-cause/

As usual, there are lots of discrepancies in reporting the cause. The National Park service says 80% of fires nationally are from lightning, but according to this article California’s are 95% human caused as reported by California firefighters.
This definitely points at humans in forest areas as the cause rather than global warming. Global warming would not be a factor if humans did not start them in the first place.

There is something seriously wrong with 1 or both of your data points.
If lightning causes 80% of fires this leaves just 20% for humans. This is 4 out of 5 are from lightning. Or, 16 out of 20. Assume these are numbers and not %ages.
OTOH, if 95% are from humans this leaves just 5% from lightning. This is 1 out of 20.
If we combine these we get --- to change 16 out of 20 into 1 out of 20 we have to leave the 16 from lightning alone and increases the human caused from 5 to 320. Now, there are 16 caused by lightning and 320 caused by humans. 16 is 5% of 320.

Is this increase in human caused fires reasonable? Instead of a total of 20 fires we now have a total of 320, or a 16 fold increase. If Calif. has 16 times more fires per 10,000 sq. miles, I would assume that someone would have noticed the change.

But, OTOH, it is possible just unlikely, it seems to me.

[One Degree]

There is something seriously wrong with 1 or both of your data points.
If lightning causes 80% of fires this leaves just 20% for humans. This is 4 out of 5 are from lightning. Or, 16 out of 20. Assume these are numbers and not %ages.
OTOH, if 95% are from humans this leaves just 5% from lightning. This is 1 out of 20.
If we combine these we get --- to change 16 out of 20 into 1 out of 20 we have to leave the 16 from lightning alone and increases the human caused from 5 to 320. Now, there are 16 caused by lightning and 320 caused by humans. 16 is 5% of 320.

Is this increase in human caused fires reasonable? Instead of a total of 20 fires we now have a total of 320, or a 16 fold increase. If Calif. has 16 times more fires per 10,000 sq. miles, I would assume that someone would have noticed the change.

But, OTOH, it is possible just unlikely, it seems to me.

I did not understand this at all. The cause of California fires are separate from the national figures. I understand this would appear to require some discrepancies in the figures which is why I began my post admitting this. Even admitting discrepancies, it is obvious California fires are caused mainly by a human problem where other areas are not. If this is only true of California, then their problem is not climate change.

[jimjam]

Global warming would not be a factor if humans did not start them in the first place.

Positively brilliant And ……….. the Chicago fire of 1871 would not have occurred if a cow had not kicked over a lantern.

Additionally, as I noted above, Donald has forever given lie to the nonsense of global warming with his very knowledgeable observation that the whole idea of global warming is a ruse created by China.

[SpecialOlympian]

Lmao at our idiot president telling people to go out and rake the forests because that's what Scandinavians do. Trump is legitimately retarded.

[Stormsmith]

in a tweet by Trump on Saturday the president argued: “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

Apparently, not only did Trump forget Californians, (like Puerto Ricans) are Americans, he forgot the tax dollars are American, just like those tax dollars bail outs spent in New York, Louisiana, and Florida. I wonder what percent are federal, and what percent is state and/or local.

[Hindsite]

I am not an expert on lighting strikes causing forest fires in California, but doesn't lighting come with rain? Those in California are claiming the forests are very dry due to lack of rain and the firefighters are hoping for rain to help put out the fires. Am I wrong to be skeptical?

[Crantag]

I am not an expert on lighting strikes causing forest fires in California, but doesn't lighting come with rain? Those in California are claiming the forests are very dry due to lack of rain and the firefighters are hoping for rain to help put out the fires. Am I wrong to be skeptical?

In much of the West it seldom rains in the summer. Sometimes lightning occurs accompanied by little rain.

[Hindsite]

In much of the West it seldom rains in the summer. Sometimes lightning occurs accompanied by little rain.

I would not live in a place like that. Why don't they move?

[Godstud]

I would not live in a place like that. Why don't they move?

The climate's lovely and it's a nice place to live, on the coast. Have you ever even been there? Any Californian will tell you how nice it is.

Best climate in the USA:
1. California
You can't beat the south and central California coast for pleasant temperatures year round. Long Beach, Los Angeles, San Diego, Santa Barbara and Santa Maria all have average daily highs no lower than the mid-60s for any month of the year. Nor does it get really hot. Temperatures in summer generally stay below 85 degrees. Plus there's little rain, typically fewer than 20 inches a year. Skies are mostly clear, with Los Angeles reporting sunshine for 73 percent of the time.
https://www.currentresults.com/Weather/ ... eather.php

Is there room where you are, for @40 million people?

[Hindsite]

The climate's lovely and it's a nice place to live, on the coast. Have you ever even been there?

Yes, I was born in Ventura, California. I've been back there a few times since leaving. I thought northern California seemed very cold one time when I was there. If the climate is always so great, then why do they complain about climate change as a reason for the wildfires? I am very happy with the climate here in Georgia.

Is there room where you are, for @40 million people?

I hope not. Praise the Lord.

[Steve_American]

Yes, I was born in Ventura, California. I've been back there a few times since leaving. I thought northern California seemed very cold one time when I was there. If the climate is always so great, then why do they complain about climate change as a reason for the wildfires? I am very happy with the climate here in Georgia.
[Is there room there for 40M people?]
I hope not. Praise the Lord.

It is useless to reply to you, but maybe a lurker will be informed.
As the saying goes, climate is what you expect [based on the past], while weather is what you get.
There is a long running drought in the west [incl. Cali.], it is blamed on AGW.
This is why there is a link, in the minds of many, between AGW-->drought-->worse-forest-fires.

[Hindsite]

There is a long running drought in the west [incl. Cali.], it is blamed on AGW.
This is why there is a link, in the minds of many, between AGW-->drought-->worse-forest-fires.

I recommend they see a psychiatrist.

[Rich]

Who are these Californian retards?

Fire is a natural and normal part of nature. If you stop a fire happening what happens? The undergrowth continues to develop meaning you get a worse fire later. Without human intervention fires generally burn through wide areas in the dry seasons, where there is mostly limited undergrowth. Because of this the fire's intensity is limited and the trees usually survive.