[Hindsite]

And this on the day that republican congressmen stormed a classified hearing and disrupted the committee in process.

This behavior is outrageous. It is the last straw.

You are being propagandized by watching fake news CNN too much. The hearing had not started and there has been nothing discussed that is classified according to the Republicans on the intelligence committee. The person to testify was from the Defense Department and Republicans on the Armed Services Committee believed they had a right to listen in.

I think holding an impeachment inquiry in secret and leaking only select one-sided information (apparently approved by lying "shifty" Adam Shift) is outrageous and unprecedented.

[Drlee]

You are being propagandized by watching fake news CNN too much. The hearing had not started and there has been nothing discussed that is classified according to the Republicans on the intelligence committee. The person to testify was from the Defense Department and Republicans on the Armed Services Committee believed they had a right to listen in.

I think holding an impeachment inquiry in secret and leaking only select one-sided information (apparently approved by lying "shifty" Adam Shift) is outrageous and unprecedented.

OK. I'm not going to get into the weeds with you on this. Once you can find an adult to explain what secure areas are and what the house rules are you can come back and phrase your argument in such a way that it does not make you look like an uneducated person ignorant of the most basic rules regarding how our government works. To go to it young man. Do your research and come back when you are ready.

General comment not a personal one.

I am through giving these republican Trump servants credit for their intelligence. They have to little to matter at all. The term "conservative" has simply become synonymous for blithering idiot. I can no longer have my name associated with the party. Moscow Mitch and our Dear Leader need to go and the people in Nov 2020 are going to make that happen.

[Hindsite]

OK. I'm not going to get into the weeds with you on this. Once you can find an adult to explain what secure areas are and what the house rules are you can come back and phrase your argument in such a way that it does not make you look like an uneducated person ignorant of the most basic rules regarding how our government works. To go to it young man. Do your research and come back when you are ready.

General comment not a personal one.

I am through giving these republican Trump servants credit for their intelligence. They have to little to matter at all. The term "conservative" has simply become synonymous for blithering idiot. I can no longer have my name associated with the party. Moscow Mitch and our Dear Leader need to go and the people in Nov 2020 are going to make that happen.

In my mind, you are the young ignorant one. I remember that you were once complaining about the Republicans not doing anything about reducing our national debt, yet now you are willing to become a Democrat and vote for these Democrats that if they get their way would put that debt so high in space that it will never come down. How does that make any sense, young man?

[blackjack21]

Trump is a typical populist autocrat.

That's a contradiction in terms.

I had a team of advisors helping me ….. mostly liberals, socialists, illegals, hippies and dwarfs.

That's great to hear... especially the dwarves. Did you find any presidential material among them? I think it's time we had a dwarf as president. It's time to get really serious about minority representation in government. Enough with these blacks and women. We need dwarves.

He'd fuck it if he could.

In a world of transgender weirdness, would that be a bad thing?

The same opposition who has spied on reporters and leaked to reporters, had the IRS attack their political rivals, and unmasked US citizen for political purposes. The opposition who tried to frame a supreme court nominee.

They think we've forgotten all about that.

2) What the House is doing is analagous to a Grand Jury.

Grand juries are kept secret to protect the innocent, not to make them look guilty. Grand juries can hear from whoever they want. They aren't limited to listening only to accusers. In most jurisdictions, the person to be accused does have a right to testify in grand juries and to call witnesses to his defense, which is one factor that makes Schiff's sham very much unlike a grand jury. Additionally, to return and indictment or true bill, the vote of the grand jury must be unanimous. Schiff is running it with a simple majority. Again, it's not like a grand jury at all. It's like a sham.

What the Democrats are doing is unprecedented in our history, that is a fact.

What's comical is that they wanted to impeach Barr for not providing the entire Mueller report before they had a chance to excise classified information--claiming a lack of transparency. Look who's hiding now! He he he.

Winning never gets old

Yeah. He's going to win this one too.

and the witnesses, like Taylor are credible,

So credible their testimony has to be kept secret? I find that hard to believe. You don't know what they actually said other than the leaks. What do the leaks reveal? Their "bombshells" are all based on hearsay. That means what they say isn't credible. In fact, it's not even admissible as evidence.

That's interesting because you don't know (not a clue) what Taylor testified too nor does 99% of the Republican or congress know. That is why you are wrong so often.

Apparently, they think they are being sophisticated and using psyops tactics against us and we don't know what they're really doing. So we're supposed to be scared.

And this on the day that republican congressmen stormed a classified hearing and disrupted the committee in process.

They aren't taking classified testimony. They are just keeping it from the public.

This behavior is outrageous.

What's wrong with wanting to hear testimony of information that isn't classified? Why should that be kept secret?

Tomorrow I will be changing my registration to democrat as at least 6 of my lifelong republican friends have done since last month.

That was long overdue.

Now I can confidently say that the democrats could run a dog with a note in his mouth and beat him.

Perhaps. Like I said, I would prefer a midget. However, Trump is what I've got. Too bad the Democrats are likely to run Biden or Warren. The dog with a note in its mouth would probably do better than Biden or Warren.

Now sending his thug congressmen to storm the house?

They aren't storming the House. They are part of the House. They are just entering a hearing about non-classified information that Schiff is trying to keep secret from the American people instead of being transparent, like all the Democrats said they wanted when they were begging for the Mueller report.

Mich McConnell has a 50% unfavorable rating with registered voters versus a 26% favorable. In his own state he is becoming unpopular.

Most of the polls are phony and McConnell is not running in 2020.

I am through giving these republican Trump servants credit for their intelligence. They have to{sic} little to matter at all.

If I go back far enough, I think I have enough data for a statistically significant hypothesis now. Every time you disparage someone's intelligence, your grammar fails you. I think this should be called, "Drlee's Tic" for the medical journals.

The term "conservative" has simply become synonymous for blithering idiot.

Really? So you're going to vote for socialist medicine instead, because that's conservative? You're about as conservative as Christopher Buckley, David Brooks, Peggy Noonan or George Will. You lot should go and form the Emily Post party, and campaign for style, manners and etiquette as more important than policy. You'll go far.

I remember that you were once complaining about the Republicans not doing anything about reducing our national debt, yet now you are willing to become a Democrat and vote for these Democrats that if they get their way would put that debt so high in space that it will never come down. How does that make any sense, young man?

It doesn't make sense, but being a Democrat means not having to make sense. Drlee isn't even as "conservative" as Mitt Romney, so his move has been long overdue.

[Hindsite]

Perhaps. Like I said, I would prefer a midget. However, Trump is what I've got. Too bad the Democrats are likely to run Biden or Warren. The dog with a note in its mouth would probably do better than Biden or Warren.

Do you think that dog could be Hillary Clinton? I hear she is claiming she could beat Trump again.

[Potemkin]

That's a contradiction in terms.

Actually, no it isn't. It's entirely possible to be both populist and an autocrat. History is replete with examples of such leaders, from Nero to Napoleon and on. I am not asserting that Trump is either a populist or an autocrat, I am merely pointing out that being both populist and autocratic is not in itself a contradiction in terms.

[Finfinder]

I am not even going to justify Finfinder's comments with a rebuttal. They are absurd. But I am not surprised that the US constitution is bothersome for him. It bothers all republicans it seems.

Obviously my comments are not absurd or you wouldn't even mention them at all. I just find it amazing that people have such derangement over a politician they would be willing to sell themselves out. On a serious note however , like a gay person coming out of the closet maybe this will be some kind of relief for Drlee a liberation, and maybe he can return back to the glory days of dominating internet chat intellectualism. I'm not seeing it I guess I was late to the party. I'm exited to learn the intellectual parallels to the squad and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the MENSA club and the infamous Drlee a Democrat.

And this on the day that republican congressmen stormed a classified hearing and disrupted the committee in process.

This behavior is outrageous. It is the last straw. Tomorrow I will be changing my registration to democrat as at least 6 of my lifelong republican friends have done since last month.

I have continued to predict that Trump will win reelection. Now I can confidently say that the democrats could run a dog with a note in his mouth and beat him. The republicans will definitely lost seats in the senate and house and may even lose the senate.

Everyone. And I mean everyone I talk to in this bright red state of Arizona is outraged. There is a long time until election and the republicans will try every dirty trick in the book but they are, as we say this close to the border, mierda. Even my 70 year old rancher friend with his property abutting the US?Mexico border has had enough.

But what the republicans should be most afraid of is the independent vote. 47.5% of independents right now favor impeachment and removal. Add that to 83% of democrats and he is in deep shit.

Now sending his thug congressmen to storm the house? Nice move folks.
.

This Independent would wager $100 Trump winning against the field

Don't you mean FAKE outrage that is what your post is projecting. I'm not tasking the bait on that obvious troll. Try using a fluorocarbon leader next time.

[late]

That's interesting because you don't know (not a clue) what Taylor testified too nor does 99% of the Republican or congress know. That is why you are wrong so often.

It's interesting because it's true. If you had a counterargument, and you don't, you would have whipped it out months ago. "If you have the facts, pound the facts, if you don't, pound the table."

We've had a number of people testify, they all say the same damn thing.

[late]

1) That's a contradiction in terms.




2) Grand juries are kept secret to protect the innocent, not to make them look guilty. Grand juries can hear from whoever they want. They aren't limited to listening only to accusers. In most jurisdictions, the person to be accused does have a right to testify in grand juries and to call witnesses to his defense, which is one factor that makes Schiff's sham very much unlike a grand jury. Additionally, to return and indictment or true bill, the vote of the grand jury must be unanimous. Schiff is running it with a simple majority. Again, it's not like a grand jury at all. It's like a sham.


3) What's comical is that they wanted to impeach Barr for not providing the entire Mueller report before they had a chance to excise classified information--claiming a lack of transparency. Look who's hiding now!


4) Their "bombshells" are all based on hearsay. That means what they say isn't credible. In fact, it's not even admissible as evidence.


5) They aren't taking classified testimony. They are just keeping it from the public.



6) They aren't storming the House. They are part of the House. They are just entering a hearing about non-classified information that Schiff is trying to keep secret from the American people instead of being transparent, like all the Democrats said they wanted when they were begging for the Mueller report.


7) Most of the polls are phony and McConnell is not running in 2020.

1) No, it's not. It's the way these things usually play out. From Mussolini to Erdogan, they talk populism and once they get in, get as close as they can to being a dictator. That is, when they don't actually become a dictator.

2) Baloney. The Constitution gives the House the power to do this. Because the AG is a hack, he isn't being helpful the way things went in previous impeachments. IOW, it's that way because your side is playing dirty.

3) More baloney, Barr was playing games. There is a procedure for this sort of thing, and the House made it clear they were going to follow that procedure.

4) More baloney. The actual testimony has been from people directly involved. These are people with credibility. Trump and his pals have less than zero credibility. Something about lying thousands of times, I suppose...

5) Some of the testimony is going to be classified.

6) When Hillary violated security procedures (because she didn't feel the governments servers were secure, which they weren't) you clowns wanted criminal prosecution. The rules were new, and the bureaucracy hadn't finished implementing.

When the Republicans stormed into the secure zone, they violated both procedure and law. Except for the guys that were supposed to be part of the hearing and were just faking it.

7) Nope. What you may be seeing is what I call the Reagan Effect. People were often too embarrassed to admit that they voted for Reagan. I had to drag it out of my friends, back then. Same thing.

[Finfinder]

It's interesting because it's true. If you had a counterargument, and you don't, you would have whipped it out months ago. "If you have the facts, pound the facts, if you don't, pound the table."

We've had a number of people testify, they all say the same damn thing.

That is a lie. Just post up the transcript of the entire testimony's then you will have no problem showing me up and proving it to be true. You are literally making that up and calling it an argument. Who is your source CNN MSNBC the same people who said things like "that testimony was devastating" on the Mueller probe for 2 years and Don Trump Junior would be in jail. The same people who called Michael Avenatti a presidential candidate. Is this Groundhog Day??? That's credible. The fact is the secret closed door meetings is just more projection from your ilk that you in fact have nothing. If not why can't you simply just post the testimony?

[late]

That is a lie.

It's a deduction.

It also fits the facts we do know.

What you lack is a sane counterargument.

What's hysterical is that when Trump released the transcript, the quid pro quo is right there on the page. Next day Mulvaney said they did that all the time and we should "get over it".

Of course, that was all a epic f*** up.

So now they are trying to deny it, but seriously, this is quite entertaining, but stupid beyond belief.

[Finfinder]

It's a deduction.

It also fits the facts we do know.

What you lack is a sane counterargument.

What's hysterical is that when Trump released the transcript, the quid pro quo is right there on the page. Next day Mulvaney said they did that all the time and we should "get over it".

Of course, that was all a epic f*** up.

So now they are trying to deny it, but seriously, this is quite entertaining, but stupid beyond belief.

Now you change your tune when someone asks you to offer facts to back up your false statement on a debate forum. Again please refer to my previous post as your ilk has no reserve credit on these issues you shot your wad on the fake Russian thing no credibility left.

[late]

Now you change your tune when someone asks you to offer facts to back up your false statement on a debate forum.

Again please refer to my previous post as your ilk has no reserve credit on these issues you shot your wad on the fake Russian thing no credibility left.

Hardly, I told you what my thinking about this is.

How's that rubber an glue tactic working for you? Because the last national elections were a bloodbath. Your side has screwed the pooch, and now they are paying the price.

[Finfinder]

Hardly, I told you what my thinking about this is.

How's that rubber an glue tactic working for you? Because the last national elections were a bloodbath. Your side has screwed the pooch, and now they are paying the price.

It's amazing that I have to remind you what you posted so recently that is not what you said

It's interesting because it's true. If you had a counterargument, and you don't, you would have whipped it out months ago. "If you have the facts, pound the facts, if you don't, pound the table."

We've had a number of people testify, they all say the same damn thing.

"They all say the same thing" great just post up the transcripts from the hearings you are referring to and and we can clear this up. ... Let me know when you want to have an honest debate.

[late]

It's amazing that I have to remind you what you posted so recently that is not what you said



"They all say the same thing" great just post up the transcripts from the hearings you are referring to and and we can clear this up. ... Let me know when you want to have an honest debate.

You are flailing blindly. The deduction is solid. It's up to you to provide a persuasive argument why it's wrong. That's not going to happen on this planet.

Repeating the same nonsense doesn't help you. In life, we are typically working with incomplete, and imperfect, information.

Saying our information is incomplete doesn't get us anywhere. There is every reason to think the witnesses are credible, and that Republicans are not.

[blackjack21]

1) No, it's not. It's the way these things usually play out. From Mussolini to Erdogan, they talk populism and once they get in, get as close as they can to being a dictator. That is, when they don't actually become a dictator.

Hence, Trump is not actually an autocrat. QED. Trump clearly isn't an autocrat as he has reached out to the Democrats to work with them on common themes many times (e.g., transportation), and they have rejected his overtures many times. Nancy Pelosi has very little to show for her time in the majority, while Trump has actually accomplished quite a lot.

2) Baloney. The Constitution gives the House the power to do this. Because the AG is a hack, he isn't being helpful the way things went in previous impeachments. IOW, it's that way because your side is playing dirty.

An impeachment inquiry has never been done this way before in US history, and the direction by the executive to not cooperate is because there is no formal impeachment inquiry held in the open with common rules, due process, etc. This inquiry is following the process of England's erstwhile Star Chamber.

3) More baloney, Barr was playing games. There is a procedure for this sort of thing, and the House made it clear they were going to follow that procedure.

Barr was not legally required to make any of the Mueller Report public. He is not subject to House rules.

4) More baloney. The actual testimony has been from people directly involved. These are people with creditiblity.{sic} Trump and his Palestinians have less than zero credibility. Something about lying thousands of times, I suppose...

Show me a transcript. You can't? Then it doesn't exist. If there were credibility, we'd see transcripts and we'd have the power to cross-examine. If you can't cross examine the witness, their credibility is damaged. The neoconservatives are trying to hide their behind-the-scenes coordination from the American people, because it's too obvious by half that the whole thing was probably orchestrated by John Bolton to protect the deep state from the Durham investigation.

John Bolton’s Silence Hangs Over Impeachment Inquiry

Hill said that Bolton described the effort to force Ukraine to investigate Trump’s political opponents as a “drug deal.” Bolton directed Hill to brief NSC lawyers about the scheme, she and Taylor testified. And Bolton opposed arranging the July 25 call between Trump and Zelenskiy, predicting it “would be a disaster,” Taylor testified. In the call, Trump asked Zelenskiy to investigate a conspiracy

It's all going to come right back to the neoconservative warmongers not getting their next war.

5) Some of the testimony is going to be classified.

So far, none of it is subject to classification and Trump has the power to declassify everything. They are not hiding the testimony to protect sources and methods. These are official diplomatic channels. These conversations are subject to executive privilege, but they aren't classified if the president says they're not.

6) When Hillary violated security procedures (because she didn't feel the governments servers were secure, which they weren't) you clowns wanted criminal prosecution. The rules were new, and the bureaucracy hadn't finished implementing.

Hillary violated the law. Her server was definitely not secure. I said from the outset many years ago that the bigger story that will never be told is that US adversaries like Russia and China had all of her communications, and were able to thwart Obama's foreign policy because of it. She will never be prosecuted for it, because Obama knew about it and sent classified information to it too, and the deep state will protect him.

When the Republicans stormed into the secure zone, they violated both procedure and law.

If it were an intelligence hearing involving classified information and the meeting were underway, that might be true. Schiff was not interviewing IC actors. He was interviewing state department actors and trying to keep their testimony secret from the White House, the Republicans in Congress and the American people--selectively leaking the bits that he thinks would hurt the president's poll numbers and suppressing exculpatory testimony.

7) Nope. What you may be seeing is what I call the Reagan Effect. People were often too embarrassed to admit that they voted for Reagan. I had to drag it out of my friends, back then. Same thing.

Oh, so you have your own "effect" now huh? Reagan won re-election in a landslide. People won't admit to Democrats that they didn't vote for the Democrat because Democrats throw public tantrums and most people do not want to deal with their tantrums and spoil an otherwise friendly social occasion. They lie to pollsters now too, because they don't want to deal with Democrats and their hissy fits. In other words, you probably didn't drag anything out of your friends. They just agreed with you to shut you up, because they're probably annoyed with your politics. I find it easy to disarm liberals. My favorite thing to do if they are hounding me is to mispronounce a word and have them correct me. They get a charge out of feeling superior, and then they leave me alone after I convince them that I am an idiot. For example, I will pronounce "paradigm" as "para diggum" rather than "para dime." It works wonders. They just need a little something to feel satisfied, and then they leave you alone.

The fact is the secret closed door meetings is just more projection from your ilk that you in fact have nothing. If not why can't you simply just post the testimony?

The Democrats and the media seem to lack the awareness that they have lost credibility. They were angry that they couldn't get Mueller to assert a violation of the law.

Right now, it's even worse. The transcript of the call between Trump and Zelenksy is public. So we have the facts and there is no violation of any law in the transcript of the call, nor alleged by anyone present to the call. So Trump has both the law and the facts on his side. So the Democrats, as puppets of the neoliberal/neoconservative cabal, are trying to come up with a blizzard of bullshit in the form of hearsay to see if they can shape public opinion with it. The funny thing is that Trump is the one who got military aid for Ukraine. Obama opposed giving Ukraine military aid, and it was Schiff who was opposing Obama at that point. They're also pissed off, because they aren't getting another war out of Trump.

[late]

1) Hence, Trump is not actually an autocrat.


2) An impeachment inquiry has never been done this way before in US history

3) Barr was not legally required to make any of the Mueller Report public. He is not subject to House rules.


4) Show me a transcript.


5) It's all going to come right back to the neoconservative warmongers not getting their next war.


6) So far, none of it is subject to classification


7) Hillary violated the law. Her server was definitely not secure.

suppressing exculpatory testimony.


9) In other words, you probably didn't drag anything out of your friends.


10) Right now, it's even worse. The transcript of the call between Trump and Zelenksy is public. So we have the facts and there is no violation of any law

1) Not yet. Your timing is awful, he's arguing in court that he is...

2) If it was held openly, you would be screaming about security violations.

3) Old propaganda, this is about releasing it to the House..

4) I'll do you better, I'll show you a trial.

5) Actually, it's all goes back to Putin.

6) Unlikely.

7) The FBI did a thorough investigation and didn't think it was worth pursuing.

If Republicans had anything exculpatory, they would be screaming it until their faces turned blue, and there are Republicans there..

9) As a rule of thumb, this isn't complicated. I also had the experience of watching people I knew vote for Nixon a second time.

10) This is getting old fast. No president can act like a mafia boss. It is, as Hamilton explained, an abuse of trust.

It also violated his oath of office.

It represented an existential threat to Ukraine, and a degradation of diplomacy that will never be completely repaired.

[jimjam]

Here's the latest indication that Obese Donald's dementia is getting worse:

“You know why we’re going to win New Mexico?” Trump told the crowd on Wednesday, talking about a bona fide border state, which he lost in 2016. “Because they want safety on their border. And they didn’t have it. And we’re building a wall on the border of New Mexico, and we’re building a wall in Colorado. We’re building a beautiful wall. A big one that really works, that you can’t get over, that you can’t get under.”

We could also use a wall up here in Maine to keep the Mass. holes out .

[Finfinder]

Barr was not legally required to make any of the Mueller Report public. He is not subject to House rules.

So far, none of it is subject to classification and Trump has the power to declassify everything. They are not hiding the testimony to protect sources and methods. These are official diplomatic channels. These conversations are subject to executive privilege, but they aren't classified if the president says they're not.


Hillary violated the law. Her server was definitely not secure. I said from the outset many years ago that the bigger story that will never be told is that US adversaries like Russia and China had all of her communications, and were able to thwart Obama's foreign policy because of it. She will never be prosecuted for it, because Obama knew about it and sent classified information to it too, and the deep state will protect him.


If it were an intelligence hearing involving classified information and the meeting were underway, that might be true. Schiff was not interviewing IC actors. He was interviewing state department actors and trying to keep their testimony secret from the White House, the Republicans in Congress and the American people--selectively leaking the bits that he thinks would hurt the president's poll numbers and suppressing exculpatory testimony.

The Democrats and the media seem to lack the awareness that they have lost credibility. They were angry that they couldn't get Mueller to assert a violation of the law. .

There are some theories that we may not see the IG report for a long while as the intelligence agencies are trying to classify what everyone know as facts out of existence. The debate will not be did they do anything wrong but did they have intent. Some people have the theory that it may take another Hillary Clinton running and subsequent loss for the left to have the political will to finally admit what they already have known all along and to see any results. Kind of like what Dr lee did yesterday. Its hard to believe this level of corruption can sustain itself.

[Drlee]

Look at the deniers coming out of the woodwork.

For those of you who are unaware, the comittee was meeting in a secure room where cell phones are not allowed at any time. Nor are uninvited people. The republicans who stormed the meeting room are committing an offense far worse than Hillary's email nonsense.

In my mind, you are the young ignorant one. I remember that you were once complaining about the Republicans not doing anything about reducing our national debt, yet now you are willing to become a Democrat and vote for these Democrats that if they get their way would put that debt so high in space that it will never come down. How does that make any sense, young man?

Absolutely. The highest deficits in history are those of Trump. Clinton balanced the budget. It is preposterous to think of the democrats as big spenders when the republicans are giving tax cuts and spending increases when the economy is flying high. Big spenders sold out to business at the expense of most of the rest of us.

Now I enjoyed my big tax cut. I will spend the money.

The republicans could get me back easily. All they have to do is go back to their conservative core values. After all, I was a party member for many decades. Do try to study some history Finfinder. It would make this so much easier for you.

And Blackjack. McConnell is up for reelection this cycle.