@Drlee wrote:
But look at the previous post. It is peppered with the term "lib. This is a pejorative coined by one guy, Rush Limbaugh, which has caught on. We have no liberal party in the US. None at all. Not even close. And all but a few of our overseas pofo members would confirm this. Even AOC is as her best a Rockefeller Republican politically.
You are right in the sense that the two party majority parties in the USA are not that different. The problem is that most of the posters defending Trump and his ilk don't understand what 'radical' means or a real socialist. They don't understand what types of socialism are practiced in different countries and why it is implemented Drlee. Why does this ignorance happen? Because they believed anything their conservative masters who think for them tell them. And never bother to do what a high schooler doing a book report must do. Verify terminology, and verify historically reliable sources and get economists and people who are experts in Political Science who give TED talks on the terms all the time and sit through it and take notes and LEARN. No, they want to be right. And never know the realities of political science. For me? No credibility is what that implies. Accept you are an ignorant---and you know who you are in this thread because when beaten you cry and whine and put up a fuss because YOU SUCK at work. Be honest now.....you lazy dummies. Lol
Bernie Sanders and AOC are fairly modest in the asks about what needs to happen. Latin American socialists are far far Left. They have a heavy pressure from an enormous group of incredibly poor voters who want heavy changes and FAST. The American Left is a different bird altogether Drlee.
AOC though would love radical change. That she can do it in that congress and that Bernie can do it in that senate ruled by hawkish Clinton machine people is another matter.
The problem is you got dummies who never studied political history of their own nation well or never bothered to figure out why so many Republicans hate socialism so much? Lol. It is because it is about losing money to the government and not controlling it in the process. A horror show for people who want to pay zero taxes to the government and keep billions in their own sphere of influence. But they don't understand that the vast majority of people in the USA are NOT in that tiny fraction of a fraction of category and they should realize they are advocating for things that are patently bad for them.
But? Ignorance is an expensive thing Drlee. What can I say?
You see Drlee I was taught by my most beloved father, his name was David by the way, I was taught by David this term and then one must go and figure out why someone might be AGAINST the concept.
Socialism
Political ideology
DescriptionSocialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them. Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity. Wikipedia
That is a dictionary terminology. So? Why would someone be against workers doing self management? You can do social ownership that is public, collective, cooperate or citizen ownership of equity.
Why would this be seen badly by a capitalist person? Because it means giving up control and giving up living off of surplus value. Why would someone want to control a company in which they never are there? Never work with the workers or do much but collect royalties, interests and or profits? Because it means that they can't dictate who is in control and it means they can't live off of workers. The purpose of all of it? The banking system, and everything else is about who needs a loan, who needs money to live and who needs to sell their labor or not eat, not be housed, and fall behind on bills and lose any form of self sustenance. That threat is the driving force for keeping the world of capitalism in many many nations, worried about survival and fear is the engine of capital.
No one who works thinks that working is something that is not meaningful to society. Maybe the ones who hate what they do? But the ones who love their work? Find it meaningful.
How to organize society so that fear is not there and people can concentrate on security and improvement of both the work environment and the product. Again Mondragon is interesting. This Basque country cooperative model is very interesting. Five minutes. Why would a worker decide a shorter work week is better than being laid off permanently? Why invest and become part owner in a big huge varied group of industries and insure no lay off? What is attractive about not having top heavy privately owned CEO big kickback salaries done away with and having more democracy in a work place? Where is the benefit?
That is something people need to deal with.
Many pro capitalists then argue. No, don't trust workers who own their own factory or business. They don't know what they are doing? Why? Because they are not intelligent. They are dumb. They are lower in IQ. Stupid. Etc.
Have you seen an episode of Undercover Boss? The TV show. Where the big wigs try to do the job of the low paid ones? And FAIL and get upset? Their ideas of what working actually implies to many people who work for a living at low wages is not what the top CEO's perceive as what it is.
Working people are very good at what they do when they are constantly threatened with layoffs if they are incompetent.
That is the reality. Making the 40 credits to get your full social security check at retirement age means or implies a bunch of years of proven reliability, dependability and quality productive value. It does. Especially for workers without college educations.
Yes, the lazy homeless and so on.
I used to work with homeless people. I worked with people who were working full time and could not get enough money together for the first and last month's rent and deposit. They can't do it on the reality of the bills and high rents in expensive cities. A lot of them have dependent children. It is not only mental health people and veterans' with PTSD. It is working parents and kids and seniors and a bunch of people.
Colorado Coalition for the Homeless deals with that population all the time. IGNORANCE IS NOT BLISS>
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