[SolarCross]

Commies killed a lot of Nazis. And the inherent premise of communism is: "Let us use the excess value of labor created by working to provide for all."

Whereas the inherent premise of naziism is: "I want a strong daddy to tell me who to hate and I don't care about anything aside from owning whoever that group is."

If commies can be redeemed by killing nazis then surely nazis can be redeemed by killing commies?

The inherent premise of communism is that humans don't deserve the wealth they create. If I wanted to be soft on nazis I think a case could be made that they were just paranoid about jews and were otherwise somewhat overly precious about a racial conception of the German people.

[SpecialOlympian]

The inherent premise of communism is not that humans don't deserve wealth, but that wealth should not be unevenly distributed. That a doctor and a line cook both deserve housing, food, and dignity.

Notice how you couldn't give a counter example for fascism. That's because fascism has none. Fascism is not a coherent ideology. It is reactionary thought taken to the extreme, constantly kneejerking and looking for enemies to attack and destroy rather than forming any kind of coherent policy.

[SolarCross]

The inherent premise of communism is not that humans don't deserve wealth, but that wealth should not be unevenly distributed. That a doctor and a line cook both deserve housing, food, and dignity.

That doesn't really explain the holodomor or the killing fields of cambodia. That is just the rhetoric they use to disguise their malevolence. Don't believe their lies.

Notice how you couldn't give a counter example for fascism. That's because fascism has none. Fascism is not a coherent ideology. It is reactionary thought taken to the extreme, constantly kneejerking and looking for enemies to attack and destroy rather than forming any kind of coherent policy.

I don't care to defend fascism so I'll let that pass though I suspect an actual fascist could put as pretty a spin on fascism as you did for communism.

[SpecialOlympian]

We have actual fascists in this thread and they've pretty clearly identified themselves as racist, homophobic morons.

Also I'm not going to talk about failed despotic regimes because that's a lazy intellectual trap. The fact is, many people die under capitalism in America because we have decided that we can spend more than the 10 next countries combined on our military but that universal healthcare is impossible. People just don't notice because it's done slowly under the status quo.

[SolarCross]

We have actual fascists in this thread and they've pretty clearly identified themselves as racist, homophobic morons.

Also I'm not going to talk about failed despotic regimes because that's a lazy intellectual trap. The fact is, many people die under capitalism in America because we have decided that we can spend more than the 10 next countries combined on our military but that universal healthcare is impossible. People just don't notice because it's done slowly under the status quo.

The US is like 50 full sized countries welded together but the armed forces only soak up about 3.5% of GDP which is actually pretty normal. The US has a huge military spend because it is 50 countries and it is rich not because it overspends.

I think the issue with universal healthcare is the freedom thing not the cost thing.

[SpecialOlympian]

That's a pretty simplistic view of American politics, but that's not the important point.

Only idiots believe that combing through the details of a dozen private insurance plans is freedom. True freedom is not having to decide if surviving cancer is worth the medical bankruptcy that follows.

[Hindsite]

Commies killed a lot of Nazis. And the inherent premise of communism is: "Let us use the excess value of labor created by working to provide for all."

What I remember most about the commies is the news media reporting that Nikita Khruschev of the Soviet Union claiming they would bury us. I was in High School at the time.

Khruschev- We will bury you

[SpecialOlympian]

Wow he's talking as if there was some kind of war going on.

[annatar1914]

Me.

I hope not.

I hope that this whole thing is not some kind of personal attack on me, that you're projecting. That would not be good.

[Hindsite]

I hope that this whole thing is not some kind of personal attack on me, that you're projecting. That would not be good.

Now why would I do that?

[skinster]

Nothing "triggers" you? Don't Nazis "trigger" you? Don't pro slave supporters "trigger" you? Doesn't human trafficking "trigger" you?

A headscarf is an inanimate object and you should not be scared of it or people who wear them all over the world.

[Hindsite]

A headscarf is an inanimate object and you should not be scared of it or people who wear them all over the world.

The lefties are scared of the red MAGA hat and the people that wear them.
Praise the Lord.

[skinster]

I don't find them scary at all. I prefer this one though.

[Hindsite]

I don't find them scary at all. I prefer this one though.

That is not going to happen as long as the red MAGA hats prevail.

[annatar1914]

Now why would I do that?

Assuming that sometimes (like many of us) you do not always know the positive or negative impacts of your words, I could construe that your assumption that my religious faith is ''legalistic'' is a personal attack... Given that my Faith is a huge part of my identity, that it is a huge part of and reason for how I express my love for God and my fellow human beings.

My Orthodox Christian faith isn't ''legalistic''; all that I do or participate in, from standing through the entirety of ''long'' services, bows, prostrations, singing and responses, signs of the cross, listening to others such as the Priest and the Reader, etc... Is one long prayer of love for God in union with a community of God. Orderly, prayerful, and humble (like the prayer of the Publican in the parable of Our Lord; ''Lord have mercy on me a sinner''.... The ''continual prayer'' that st. Paul mentions). Everything done or not done, is a prayer.

That's not ''legalism''.


All that being said, take what I'm saying to heart about treating human beings better and having consideration for the fact that religion (even the atheistic religion of 'secular humanism') is a huge part of a human being's identity. People will and do take it personally.

[Hindsite]

Assuming that sometimes (like many of us) you do not always know the positive or negative impacts of your words, I could construe that your assumption that my religious faith is ''legalistic'' is a personal attack... Given that my Faith is a huge part of my identity, that it is a huge part of and reason for how I express my love for God and my fellow human beings.

All that being said, take what I'm saying to heart about treating human beings better and having consideration for the fact that religion (even the atheistic religion of 'secular humanism') is a huge part of a human being's identity. People will and do take it personally.

I certainly don't want to offend a fellow Christian for their sincere beliefs. But I don't mind offending Muslims, atheists, or those with other false religious beliefs for the sake of Christ.
Praise the Lord.

[annatar1914]

I certainly don't want to offend a fellow Christian for their sincere beliefs. But I don't mind offending Muslims, atheists, or those with other false religious beliefs for the sake of Christ.
Praise the Lord.

I'm okay with that actually.

But, let me put things another way. With fallen mankind, there is a void in man's heart and soul that only God can truly fill. Most people in this world know this, and many do sincerely seek God. Born into false and evil and/or ignorant religions, they have to struggle between what they feel inside, and what they are taught by others (those ''others'' often being family, friends, respected authority figures, etc...). The Holy Spirit blows where He wills, so not willing to put out that dim flickering of God's Fire in them, I am careful about what I say or don't say, or try to be.

I'm sure you understand, so I won't beat a dead horse and make a big deal about it.

[Verv]

No.

This is factually incorrect.

Have a good one.

I understand how you have no problems being as obtuse as you want to be just to frustrate others, and I understand that you do some funny stuff with your ideology and internal logic to make this true to yourself...

But I am curious if you can actually unpack this for us. Or is that just unimportant?

[Verv]

<snip>
Well, It seems complicated, but essentially the Old Believers (''Priested'') think that they ARE the Proslaviye, the Orthodox, and the Canons of the Church and decrees of the Councils and Synods have always denied the efficacy of the sacraments of Schismatics and Heretics. However though, there is on both sides an awareness that God is Good and Loves Mankind.

(This btw is not an endorsement of the heresy of Ecumenism.)

So no need for concern, my friend. I won't go into my own spiritual situation, But I am an Orthodox Christian, and I hope this whole thing is resolved soon for the sake of people's eternal salvation. I will note also that the Vatican has been...Involved...all along, and this is a historical and ongoing factor.

Right, but to keep this simple:

I am going to be critical of them just as how they are critical of me, right, and while I do admire their conservatism and think that they may even toe the line better than some of the Orthodox because they codify this behavior, I do not think it pays off in the long-term.

I very much look forward to talking with you about these things in the future.

[annatar1914]

Right, but to keep this simple:

I am going to be critical of them just as how they are critical of me, right, and while I do admire their conservatism and think that they may even toe the line better than some of the Orthodox because they codify this behavior, I do not think it pays off in the long-term.

I very much look forward to talking with you about these things in the future.

Thank you, and I look forwards to the same, and I pray that I in my mediocrity can do them the justice that they (the Starovery) deserve in my opinion.

I do want to make one distinction though; I cannot possibly regard as true ''Old Believers'' any sect that essentially has said that because of the fierce persecution against the Old Orthodoxy, the ''Gates of Hell'' have prevailed against the Church (meaning that there are no faithful clergy alive, no sacraments available, and almost no real Orthodox Christians left, with no means of restoring faithful clergy and bringing back the sacraments and worship services of the Church). So basically, we would be discussing the Popovtsy, the ''Priested'' Old Believers.

Also, I will be asking questions of you if you do not mind (such as your own spiritual ''placement'' along a kind of theological spectrum in relation to others), and making a broader analysis of the spiritual situation in the world to provide what I think is a context within to place what is going on.

Again, looking forwards to it, and thanks.