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By late
#15044134
The good news is that while the semi-pro trolls will shovel crap all day, this has developed momentum.

This is a classic fight or flight situation for Republicans, and you can see them hesitate, and start to think about life after Trump.

Smoke 'em while you got 'em.
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By Finfinder
#15044146
The polls :lol: how did that work out with the presidential election? You guys and your leaders CNN MSNBC and the liberal press haven't been correct on ...well anything. :lol:
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By SpecialOlympian
#15044170
Rancid wrote:As I've said, the issue isn't profit. Even if it's 100% verifiable that it's a loss for him, this should still not be done. The optics are bad.

It sets a bad precedent for future presidents, etc. etc.

the fact you guys can't see this verifies my theory that guys like you really want the USA to turn in Mexico. :lol:

oh the irony.


Lmbo look at the little lib. Gonna cry about it? Gonna cry because the president can personally enrich himself through his office? Is your gay little butt hurting over how the president has private business interests that aren't in line with the interests of America? Lmao cry more, lib. Your tears sustain me, gay little liberal.

Lib status: Owned. America is great again.
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By blackjack21
#15044182
Rancid wrote:Is there difference between law & what is morally/ethically right?

Of course. Abortion is legal for example, and for purely selfish reasons that have nothing to do with life, health, or even economics. There is often a big gap between what is legal and what is moral. Do you disagree?

Stormsmith wrote:Perhaps. Perhaps not. As I said earlier, Speaker Pelosi is clever. She knows what happened with President Nixon. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Trump is not Nixon, and neither are the bulk of his supporters a "silent" majority. They'll take the Republican party down with Trump if that's what the establishment wants to do.

JohnRawls wrote: More than 50% of US population is for impeaching Trump and this number will inevitably grow so it will be a decision for the senate to block the impeachment or not.(Same as with same-sex marriage. Nobody was for it until the opinion of the public changed and then almost everyone was for it)

That all depends on whether you believe the polls. Most homosexuals don't get married. It wasn't even a majority issue for them. It's just politicians, judges and media personalities getting paid off to state that they are for something.

Stormsmith wrote:Most of them, I think, are frightened of being primaried.

Look how many Republicans lost seats in 2018. Is it that Democrats suddenly became popular? It's because many of them lied their asses off to the electorate about repealing ObamaCare. The establishment works across party lines. RomneyCare was supposed to pave the way for ObamaCare. People were supposed to like it. They wanted to run it for 10 years or so and then push for single payer. Yet, the Tea Party was not having it. They threw Republican leadership like Cantor out of office, not unlike AOC throwing out a Democratic party leadership candidate. That surprised the shit out of the establishment. Yet, the establishment still didn't listen. They bashed the Tea Party until the name "Tea Party" was gone, but the voters aren't gone. They aren't on the left with AOC and her ilk either. The middle is collapsing because the establishment has betrayed working and middle class voters, and the voters know it. The establishment's hold on power is tenuous.

Ukrainegate isn't simply about getting Trump out of power. It's about hanging on to power themselves by whatever means necessary, since it has become clear to them that they cannot win at the ballot box.

Stormsmith wrote:Your president doesn't treat his adversaries with respect, does he?

He kicks the crap out of 'em, and we love him for it.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15044183
blackjack21 wrote: Do you disagree?


No.

So you can't in anyway conceive why it might be ethically wrong to host (hypothetically speaking now that we know it will not happen) something like the G7 at Trump property?

I'm saying you need to agree that it is wrong, but can you even understand why a valid argument could be made as to why it's ethically wrong?
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By blackjack21
#15044185
Rancid wrote:So you can't in anyway conceive why it might be ethically wrong to host (hypothetically speaking now that we know it will not happen) something like the G7 at Trump property?

I'm saying you need to agree that it is wrong, but can you even understand why a valid argument could be made as to why it's ethically wrong?

If he was using it for a profit opportunity sure, but he wasn't. So where are the other ethical concerns beyond emoluments, alleged self-dealing and so forth? You say, "it looks bad." Well, the media is never going to give Trump fair press. I've considered the media unreliable since well before Trump coined the term "fake news." So what they say "looks bad" isn't the same to me as it may be to you. Trump took steps to ensure that his own enterprises were not profiting from government business, that his assets were placed in a revocable trust, and that he doesn't run the operations. If you have other concerns, what are they specifically?
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By Rancid
#15044186
blackjack21 wrote:If you have other concerns, what are they specifically?



One thing that comes to mind is that Trump can still draw money from that Trust. Also, he hasn't actually divested. That certainly opens him up to things like Tmobile execs staying at Trump hotels for example. Anyway, ultimately, it doesn't matter to you, so it's not really worth getting into it.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what I think.
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By jimjam
#15044226
The top American diplomat in Ukraine on Tuesday gave impeachment investigators a vivid and impassioned account of how multiple senior administration officials told him that President Trump blocked security aid to Ukraine and refused to meet the country’s leader until he agreed to publicly pledge to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals.

So not only was there a quid pro quo, but it had nothing to do with investigating actual corruption; Trump just wanted an investigation to be announced publicly to sow doubt about his likely opponent.

He used the powers of his office not to benefit the United States, but to advance his personal political fortunes. That's the definition of a high crime.

If this isn't impeachable, nothing is.

and:

The Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, refused on Tuesday to confirm Mr. Trump’s claim that the senator had described his July call with Mr. Zelensky as “perfect.”

“I don’t recall any conversation with the president on that phone call,” Mr. McConnell told reporters.
Uh-Oh :lol:
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By blackjack21
#15044227
jimjam wrote:The top American diplomat in Ukraine on Tuesday gave impeachment investigators a vivid and impassioned account of how multiple senior administration officials told him that President Trump blocked security aid to Ukraine and refused to meet the country’s leader until he agreed to publicly pledge to investigate Mr. Trump’s political rivals.

So more hearsay. That's great! I'm sure every Trump detractor in civil service has an imaginary friend high up in the Trump administration that tells them that Trump is very, very bad. :roll:

jimjam wrote:So not only was there a quid pro quo, but it had nothing to do with investigating actual corruption; Trump just wanted an investigation to be announced publicly to sow doubt about his likely opponent.

Again, it's hearsay. It's not admissible at trial. Until you get to a first hand source--which apparently doesn't exist, because we have the transcript--you have nothing of legal significance. So this is only media fodder and nothing more.

jimjam wrote:He used the powers of his office not to benefit the United States, but to advance his personal political fortunes. That's the definition of a high crime.

:roll: The presidency is a political office. All presidents by definition use the office to advance their political fortunes, as do all Congressmen and Senators. It's not a high crime at all. It's not even a low crime. It's the expectation of the electorate. It's when they commit a crime defined in the United States Code that it becomes an issue. Do you have any section of the United States code that you would like to cite yet? Can you support the allegation with first hand accounts, and not hearsay of anonymous sources (i.e., imaginary friends)?
By Hindsite
#15044228
jimjam wrote:If this isn't impeachable, nothing is.

That is correct. Nothing President Trump has done is impeachable. But the hate filled Democrats are determined to impeach him anyway, because they were made to look like fools in 2016.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15044230
blackjack21 wrote:media fodder


Of which your boy Obese Donald is well familiar …. :lol: Nancy LOVES media fodder. Poor Donald. He's getting seriously outplayed.
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By blackjack21
#15044231
jimjam wrote:Poor Donald. He's getting seriously outplayed.

Let me guess: the noose is tightening; the walls are closing in; Trump is getting desperate; the investigation is getting close to discovering the goods! We've just been through years of that. The establishment/media complex is failing. You know how much this matters to millennials? Very little. Gen Z? They don't even watch TV. The media is laying people off.
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By Tainari88
#15044270
@blackjack21
Look how many Republicans lost seats in 2018. Is it that Democrats suddenly became popular? It's because many of them lied their asses off to the electorate about repealing ObamaCare. The establishment works across party lines. RomneyCare was supposed to pave the way for ObamaCare. People were supposed to like it. They wanted to run it for 10 years or so and then push for single payer. Yet, the Tea Party was not having it. They threw Republican leadership like Cantor out of office, not unlike AOC throwing out a Democratic party leadership candidate. That surprised the shit out of the establishment. Yet, the establishment still didn't listen. They bashed the Tea Party until the name "Tea Party" was gone, but the voters aren't gone. They aren't on the left with AOC and her ilk either. The middle is collapsing because the establishment has betrayed working and middle class voters, and the voters know it. The establishment's hold on power is tenuous.

Ukrainegate isn't simply about getting Trump out of power. It's about hanging on to power themselves by whatever means necessary, since it has become clear to them that they cannot win at the ballot box.


I am quite interested in seeing how extreme the establishment will get when they realize the public doesn't trust them and it will be increasingly hard to continue their shenanigans.

Unlike you Blackjack, I don't think the far Right even if it did take over will survive enough to have some WASP paradise in the USA.

I think what is most likely to happen is that there will be serious fiscal and internal political consequences to a lack of ethics for many decades and there will be a serious decline in power for the USA. The power vacuum will be filled with other actors and the world will continue turning with a multipolarity of powerful nations.

The USA will go the way of many ex empires. Having to just be accepting of losing nationalistic primacy.

I have absolutely no compassion for empires who mistreat little islands. Like my little island has been mistreated. The big bully nations can go to hell. They deserve it.

For the apathetic people who never got involved in the first place to change things? Don't cry when you are unemployed, and losing it all...you had no clue what to expect and only respond to crisis and never pay attention til you are touched by some selfish stuff that other selfish people did in your name...and you were clueless? No crying for them either.

I think the best thing is to be living correctly and be always improving oneself. To think you control what is happening in these places with abusive selfish people making bad decisions? Take care of your own life. That is true change.
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By Rancid
#15044276
Tainari88 wrote:what is most likely to happen is that there will be serious fiscal and internal political consequences to a lack of ethics for many decades and there will be a serious decline in power for the USA.

This pretty much hits it perfectly.

Tainari88 wrote:The big bully nations can go to hell. They deserve it.

I agree, but the problem is, when one bully nation goes to hell, another quickly replaces it.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15044290
Rancid wrote:This pretty much hits it perfectly.


I agree, but the problem is, when one bully nation goes to hell, another quickly replaces it.


Yes they do.

But? The important thing is that one bully licks their wounds and another one thinks they got the answer to the holding on to rotten values shit stuff...and they wind up licking their wounds down the road...and if enough of these devils get burned they might learn some humility someday and stop being such assholes. That is my optimism.

Lol. :lol:

Conversation with these devils:

I like this scene with Al Pacino Rancid...these bully damn nations they think they are the Greatest...they fall for that VANITY SIN very easily. Instead of realizing? All human beings and human societies are equally capable of doing and being something. But they believe falsely in their own superiority Rancid. That is their biggest flaw by far. It is impossible to get humble people to believe in some false vanity. That is what makes them hard to manipulate into doing immoral things. It is what the Bible writes about in that whole scene between the devil and Jesus in the desert....but these people into nationalism and WASPs are superior and the Far Right...are vanity soldiers. They always have been. Learn some humility and keep things real and your nation functioning. You fall into cheap vanity ideas of greatness? The Devil is Happy. Lol.

Last edited by Tainari88 on 23 Oct 2019 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15044291
Tainari88 wrote:there will be a serious decline in power for the USA. The power vacuum will be filled with other actors and the world will continue turning with a multipolarity of powerful nations. The USA will go the way of many ex empires. Having to just be accepting of losing nationalistic primacy.

This is rapidly happening. Also, i'm sure China will not waste any time after a year of insults and bullying by Obese Donald. And it seems the rest of the world is less than anxious to engage with a lunatic. They will largely sit back and watch.
Image
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia meeting in Sochi, Russia, on Tuesday

Tainari88 wrote:The USA will go the way of many ex empires. Having to just be accepting of losing nationalistic primacy.

I have frequently drawn a parallel between the fall of the Roman Empire and the fall of the American Empire. There is an uncanny resemblance.

Tainari88 wrote:I think the best thing is to be living correctly and be always improving oneself. To think you control what is happening in these places with abusive selfish people making bad decisions? Take care of your own life. That is true change.


This is what I have done throughout my life. I have a good measure of control over my life but no control over mass insanity lorded over by a band of lunatics.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15044293
jimjam wrote:This is rapidly happening. Also, i'm sure China will not waste any time after a year of insults and bullying by Obese Donald. And it seems the rest of the world is less than anxious to engage with a lunatic. They will largely sit back and watch.
Image
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia meeting in Sochi, Russia, on Tuesday


I have frequently drawn a parallel between the fall of the Roman Empire and the fall of the American Empire. There is an uncanny resemblance.



This is what I have done throughout my life. I have a good measure of control over my life but no control over mass insanity lorded over by a band of lunatics.


Jimjam, you got to realize that nothing corrupts more thoroughly than power and the state. The Anarchists are very correct that state power and corruption often go hand and hand. The most important truth to all state held power is to keep it contained and for political people to be watched and to be vetted for character.....and consistency.

If you can't do that? Your nation is in trouble.

For sure.

People have asked me what do I want for Puerto Rico? It is simple. To be left alone to choose its own destiny without interferences and to allow the Puerto Ricans themselves to rule their own society. We are a small place, and not that large, and we aren't made for Empires and ambitions. We are and should be made for peace, rest, tranquility and art and thought, close families and living in harmony with nature.

We should be a place of friendship and humane values. The land certainly is apt for happiness.

Do not look for that which is filled with pomposity and ego....it will lead you astray Jimjam.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15044295
Tainari88 wrote: nothing corrupts more thoroughly than power and the state.


Sir John Dalberg-Acton is perhaps best known for the remark, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men...", which he made in a letter to an Anglican bishop.
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By Tainari88
#15044297
jimjam wrote:Sir John Dalberg-Acton is perhaps best known for the remark, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men...", which he made in a letter to an Anglican bishop.


Women ask me what kind of man I fall in love with Jimjam...my answer is always the same. A man who doesn't worship money and power, who believes in being my equal despite my being a woman, who loves me for me and not for what he can get out of me, and who is a sensitive soul, passionate and considerate....

Someone who places love and service above all other values for living a good life.

Those are the men I will love with all my heart.

The ones who care about their egos, who love pursuing money and power, who are callous and disrespectful in private and are into status symbols? Who don't believe women are their equals? Who want to use others to be able to climb?

I will never love them ever...worthless men.

The only women who marry and love those men? Blind and dumb ones....without a wise hair on their heads. :)
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