[Pants-of-dog]

So you believe that Americans are okay with illegals being in our country because it might be a financial benefit?

Not quite.

I believe that many US residents are okay with undocumented immigrants because it is a financial benefit.

People like Trump enjoy paying exploitative wages as it increases the profit in their pocket.

————————

Is jaywalking a serious crime? Not really, no. We do not think of jaywalkers as "criminals." In fact, if someone told a story about jaywalking and I shouted out, "you criminal!," everyone would chuckle.

Indeed, if someone recalled a story about them smoking weed in college, and I shouted "you criminal!," people would also chuckle.

If I said this about someone about drunk driving, or if someone mentioned working illegally in Japan for 5 years, and I called them a criminal, it would probably be considered rude and immediately spark a debate. Why?

Because we understand that violating the immigration laws of a country is a pretty meaningful offense.

Being in the US illegally is actually a minor offense.

It is comparable to smoking weed or jaywalking.

And this is why I find it odd for you to characterise undocumented migrants as criminals while not applying that same label to others who have committed similarly minor crimes.

[BigSteve]

Not quite.

I believe that many US residents are okay with undocumented immigrants because it is a financial benefit.

Some, sure. And they're bad Americans...

People like Trump enjoy paying exploitative wages as it increases the profit in their pocket.

Oh, do share with us your in depth knowledge of what employees of the Trump organization get paid...

Being in the US illegally is actually a minor offense.

It is comparable to smoking weed or jaywalking.

No, it's not.

Not that we'd expect a Canuck to know the difference...

And this is why I find it odd for you to characterise undocumented migrants as criminals while not applying that same label to others who have committed similarly minor crimes.

First, they're not "undocumented" anything. They're illegal aliens.

Violating our immigration laws is far more severe than jaywalking.

Again, not that we'd expect you to be able to discern the difference...

[Tainari88]

Crime...hmm. Let me think? All the criminals I have experienced crime from in the USA? Americans and not illegal aliens. Lol.

Apartment broken into and all things stolen in the late eighties? White guy drug addict.

Attempted assault while getting off the bus while going to uni? Blonde white guy also on drugs.

Car vandalized seven times over twenty something years in the neighborhood? Home grown hoodlums five of which were white guys. The majority in fact were white car vandals.

Crazy guy shooting cops after they were called for a guy near my house shooting and injuring with a gun or rifle or machine gun, some cyclists....he shot the two cops and was shot and killed by a SWAT team. What race was that guy and his legal immigration status? White guy. American.

I told my son to not go to the Batman Returns whatever Premiere in Aurora, Colorado and he did not....if he had gone would have been shot to death by guess what? A white guy by the last name Holmes....with mental issues....Saved from crazy white men who love to mass kill.....I have to conclude that angry white guys with guns and on drugs or with alienation like that freak from Mesquite who shot up the country music concert crowd in Las Vegas, Nevada from the Mandalay Bay....hotel is a pattern of white guy nuts in the USA. I say round up all the white guys with guns and deport them to Rhode Island. Rhode Island will be the place to put millions of white guy nuts with alienation and stuff in a spot they can be watched.

Got to make the world safe from white guys. And you white guys especially ex Navy men with guns and cameras need to be suspected of being that way....you might pop a cork at any time and become unglued and decide to kill en masse people. Too bad you can't be deported to Riker's Island in NYC or something....lol.

Well, if I go by my personal experiences? White guys with guns and alienation and drugs are a dangerous combination.

I say we strip them of their constitutional citizenship because they gave up the right to be a gung ho American pendejo the day they shot, assaulted, vandalized and otherwise became punks and hoodlums low lives and represent their race with shame and make all decent white people look bad!

This is not about race really, this is about WHITENESS. Because all white people are pure. They don't have criminals and mentally ill types in their midst. They don't do drugs and lose their brains in drug consumption. They don't smoke things they should not smoke. They don't drink in excess and pop pills illegally. They don't rape kids or women, they don't burglarize places and they in those wars like WWI, WWII, etc did not KILL EACH OTHER because they all were buddies and their whiteness made them buddies. They are not human. They are worse. I say the angry white men need to be deported to Rhode Island. Fix the problems of all their crazy behavior.

The End.

[BigSteve]

Crime...hmm. Let me think? All the criminals I have experienced crime from in the USA? Americans and not illegal aliens. Lol.

Apartment broken into and all things stolen in the late eighties? White guy drug addict.

Attempted assault while getting off the bus while going to uni? Blonde white guy also on drugs.

Car vandalized seven times over twenty something years in the neighborhood? Home grown hoodlums five of which were white guys. The majority in fact were white car vandals.

Crazy guy shooting cops after they were called for a guy near my house shooting and injuring with a gun or rifle or machine gun, some cyclists....he shot the two cops and was shot and killed by a SWAT team. What race was that guy and his legal immigration status? White guy. American.

I told my son to not go to the Batman Returns whatever Premiere in Aurora, Colorado and he did not....if he had gone would have been shot to death by guess what? A white guy by the last name Holmes....with mental issues....Saved from crazy white men who love to mass kill.....I have to conclude that angry white guys with guns and on drugs or with alienation like that freak from Mesquite who shot up the country music concert crowd in Las Vegas, Nevada from the Mandalay Bay....hotel is a pattern of white guy nuts in the USA. I say round up all the white guys with guns and deport them to Rhode Island. Rhode Island will be the place to put millions of white guy nuts with alienation and stuff in a spot they can be watched.

Got to make the world safe from white guys. And you white guys especially ex Navy men with guns and cameras need to be suspected of being that way....you might pop a cork at any time and become unglued and decide to kill en masse people. Too bad you can't be deported to Riker's Island in NYC or something....lol.

Well, if I go by my personal experiences? White guys with guns and alienation and drugs are a dangerous combination.

I say we strip them of their constitutional citizenship because they gave up the right to be a gung ho American pendejo the day they shot, assaulted, vandalized and otherwise became punks and hoodlums low lives and represent their race with shame and make all decent white people look bad!

This is not about race really, this is about WHITENESS. Because all white people are pure. They don't have criminals and mentally ill types in their midst. They don't do drugs and lose their brains in drug consumption. They don't smoke things they should not smoke. They don't drink in excess and pop pills illegally. They don't rape kids or women, they don't burglarize places and they in those wars like WWI, WWII, etc did not KILL EACH OTHER because they all were buddies and their whiteness made them buddies. They are not human. They are worse. I say the angry white men need to be deported to Rhode Island. Fix the problems of all their crazy behavior.

The End.

That's quite the racist diatribe you've got there.

Being an illegal alien has nothing to do with race. I understand that libs want it that way, though, because libs foolishly believe they make a better point if they can call someone a racist...

[Tainari88]

You did not get the point of that thing I wrote did you? No. It went right over your head.

I am not a liberal Big Steve. But I know you think American liberals are the Left for you. I won't tell you what I think of a very very limited Political Science understanding. If you took PoliSci seriously you would not make your comments the way you do.

You are not interested in hearing the causes of why people enter a nation without authorization to find work. Because the majority of the íllegal aliens are interested in some kind of work or job. Not killing, raping or selling drugs. But I know you think they are all here to rape, kill or sell drugs. Or who knows what you think? Your solutions are about violence and extreme measures.

I could not care less.

The reality is that people who are running across the border of nations with more jobs than in their home nations....need to have a plan for retaining people in their own countries by having enough jobs.

If I thought the way a person who analyzes the subject would think about it? I would say? Why aren't the Mexicans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, etc STAYING HOME? Why are they packing their bags and going somewhere for a job? It happens not only to the USA....but to the UK, Australia, France, Spain, Sweden, and the list goes on...any nation in half decent shape economically. It is world wide issue Big Steve. And as such needs examination. And it needs to be asked the question? Why do people move so much? Why do they feel the need to go and risk so much for a job? Or for avoiding crime or poverty or corruption or something untenable in their own countries?

I always ask the why of something. That is what needs to happen. But instead we get.....the liberals are letting them in because they are sissies and if we shoot or kill or deport all these criminals we are going to get rid of the problems we got at home. Because some other nation's issues are not ours. Look out for number one and fuck the rest of the world.

Sorry, for me that is the thinking of dummies. Truly.

[Julian658]

Because you guys seem upset when a Latino rapes someone but have no problem when a white guy talks about grabbing women by the genitals.

The raping of a woman is not the same as a some fool talking locker room BS about how he makes out with women. Typical POD reasoning based on emotions.

[Julian658]

You did not get the point of that thing I wrote did you? No. It went right over your head.

I am not a liberal Big Steve. But I know you think American liberals are the Left for you. I won't tell you what I think of a very very limited Political Science understanding. If you took PoliSci seriously you would not make your comments the way you do.

You are not interested in hearing the causes of why people enter a nation without authorization to find work. Because the majority of the íllegal aliens are interested in some kind of work or job. Not killing, raping or selling drugs. But I know you think they are all here to rape, kill or sell drugs. Or who knows what you think? Your solutions are about violence and extreme measures.

I could not care less.

The reality is that people who are running across the border of nations with more jobs than in their home nations....need to have a plan for retaining people in their own countries by having enough jobs.

If I thought the way a person who analyzes the subject would think about it? I would say? Why aren't the Mexicans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, etc STAYING HOME? Why are they packing their bags and going somewhere for a job? It happens not only to the USA....but to the UK, Australia, France, Spain, Sweden, and the list goes on...any nation in half decent shape economically. It is world wide issue Big Steve. And as such needs examination. And it needs to be asked the question? Why do people move so much? Why do they feel the need to go and risk so much for a job? Or for avoiding crime or poverty or corruption or something untenable in their own countries?

I always ask the why of something. That is what needs to happen. But instead we get.....the liberals are letting them in because they are sissies and if we shoot or kill or deport all these criminals we are going to get rid of the problems we got at home. Because some other nation's issues are not ours. Look out for number one and fuck the rest of the world.

Sorry, for me that is the thinking of dummies. Truly.

Why do most of the poor in the world want to migrate to the most racist and oppressive nation in world history?

[Julian658]

Crime...hmm. Let me think? All the criminals I have experienced crime from in the USA? Americans and not illegal aliens. Lol.

Apartment broken into and all things stolen in the late eighties? White guy drug addict.

Attempted assault while getting off the bus while going to uni? Blonde white guy also on drugs.

Car vandalized seven times over twenty something years in the neighborhood? Home grown hoodlums five of which were white guys. The majority in fact were white car vandals.

Crazy guy shooting cops after they were called for a guy near my house shooting and injuring with a gun or rifle or machine gun, some cyclists....he shot the two cops and was shot and killed by a SWAT team. What race was that guy and his legal immigration status? White guy. American.

I told my son to not go to the Batman Returns whatever Premiere in Aurora, Colorado and he did not....if he had gone would have been shot to death by guess what? A white guy by the last name Holmes....with mental issues....Saved from crazy white men who love to mass kill.....I have to conclude that angry white guys with guns and on drugs or with alienation like that freak from Mesquite who shot up the country music concert crowd in Las Vegas, Nevada from the Mandalay Bay....hotel is a pattern of white guy nuts in the USA. I say round up all the white guys with guns and deport them to Rhode Island. Rhode Island will be the place to put millions of white guy nuts with alienation and stuff in a spot they can be watched.

Got to make the world safe from white guys. And you white guys especially ex Navy men with guns and cameras need to be suspected of being that way....you might pop a cork at any time and become unglued and decide to kill en masse people. Too bad you can't be deported to Riker's Island in NYC or something....lol.

Well, if I go by my personal experiences? White guys with guns and alienation and drugs are a dangerous combination.

I say we strip them of their constitutional citizenship because they gave up the right to be a gung ho American pendejo the day they shot, assaulted, vandalized and otherwise became punks and hoodlums low lives and represent their race with shame and make all decent white people look bad!

This is not about race really, this is about WHITENESS. Because all white people are pure. They don't have criminals and mentally ill types in their midst. They don't do drugs and lose their brains in drug consumption. They don't smoke things they should not smoke. They don't drink in excess and pop pills illegally. They don't rape kids or women, they don't burglarize places and they in those wars like WWI, WWII, etc did not KILL EACH OTHER because they all were buddies and their whiteness made them buddies. They are not human. They are worse. I say the angry white men need to be deported to Rhode Island. Fix the problems of all their crazy behavior.

The End.

That American citizens commit crime is not an excuse to justify admitting alien criminals. BTW, I think most would gladly expel American criminals out of the country, but unfortunately it cannot be done. The question that begs an answer is why allow more criminals? The answer is simple: Votes for the DEmocrats!

[BigSteve]

You did not get the point of that thing I wrote did you? No. It went right over your head.

All you did was belch up some racist diatribe, talking about how bad white people are...

I am not a liberal Big Steve.

Yeah, okay.

I don't believe in Santa Claus, either...

But I know you think American liberals are the Left for you. I won't tell you what I think of a very very limited Political Science understanding. If you took PoliSci seriously you would not make your comments the way you do.

What does taking Poli/Sci have to do with you being a racist?

You are not interested in hearing the causes of why people enter a nation without authorization to find work. Because the majority of the íllegal aliens are interested in some kind of work or job. Not killing, raping or selling drugs. But I know you think they are all here to rape, kill or sell drugs. Or who knows what you think? Your solutions are about violence and extreme measures.

You obviously haven't read what I've written in the past regarding this.

We can't shoulder the burden when someone decides to leave their shit hole, mud hut country to come here for work. If conditions in their country suck that's hardly our fault. If someone comes here illegally, the reason for it is secondary. Nowhere have I ever said that I think they all want to rape, kill, or sell drugs. I've never said that and it's the apex of dishonesty for you to suggest I have.

I drive SR-207 in northeastern Florida every day, past farmlands being worked by illegals. I know all they want to do is work. And that's fine. I would love for them to come here to work! But they need to do it legally.

Why is that such a bad idea?

The reality is that people who are running across the border of nations with more jobs than in their home nations....need to have a plan for retaining people in their own countries by having enough jobs.

Then they need to get to work on that. If there aren't enough jobs in their home country, it's not our responsibility to fix that, nor is it our responsibility to accept everyone who wants to come here because of it...

If I thought the way a person who analyzes the subject would think about it? I would say? Why aren't the Mexicans, Hondurans, Guatemalans, etc STAYING HOME? Why are they packing their bags and going somewhere for a job? It happens not only to the USA....but to the UK, Australia, France, Spain, Sweden, and the list goes on...any nation in half decent shape economically. It is world wide issue Big Steve. And as such needs examination. And it needs to be asked the question? Why do people move so much? Why do they feel the need to go and risk so much for a job? Or for avoiding crime or poverty or corruption or something untenable in their own countries?

What you're failing to grasp is that the reason why they come here in no way means they should be allowed to stay...

I always ask the why of something. That is what needs to happen. But instead we get.....the liberals are letting them in because they are sissies and if we shoot or kill or deport all these criminals we are going to get rid of the problems we got at home. Because some other nation's issues are not ours. Look out for number one and fuck the rest of the world.

Why shouldn't a country put its own welfare and best interests ahead of all others? Not doing so would almost treasonous and most certainly reprehensible...

Sorry...

I will not disagree with that self-assessment...

for me that is the thinking of dummies. Truly.

For me, yours is the thinking of traitors...

[Drlee]

@BigSteve So you believe that Americans are okay with illegals being in our country because it might be a financial benefit?

No good Americans would take that stance...

On the contrary. Ronald Reagan and the republicans in the house and senate did when he enacted amnesty during his term as president. Perhaps you consider them all liberals?

The thing is BS economics is what this entire issue is about. That is unless you sign up for some kind of racist "cultural diluting" nonsense. (Many Trump supporters do but I know you wouldn't.)

Most illegal aliens are the very epitome of capitalists. They are willing to work for what they get, in a free market economy, to support their families and provide for their future generations. That is pretty much what immigrants to the US have always wanted. Even my English ancestors in the 17th century wanted that same thing. So did my Scottish ancestors in the 18th century.

Sure some illegals commit crimes. Actually they do it in smaller numbers that citizens do but even that is irrelevant. The reason for illegal immigration and the solution to it is one thing and one thing only for the vast majority of illegals....economics. They come here to make money and they stay because they can.

But what about asylum seekers? Same thing. They could go to Mexico or Costa Rica and be relatively safe in camps. They come here because if they get asylum their standard of living will be much better now and in future generations. And is that any different from the reason I spent 20 years in school? To have the life that I want and earn what I need or more?

I am no fan of illegal immigration. I think it should be stopped and the illegals in the country not allowed to stay. ONE way to do that is to accept that some of them ought not to be considered illegal anymore and take action to keep them in the society where they have lived productive and law abiding lives, some for decades.

Casting compassion aside for a moment (something I personally would not do but for the tight asses in the group) it is in our enlightened self interest not to deport a very considerable number of people who are here illegally. So we keep the ones we want and deprive the others from the ability to work and there you have it. How do we decide who? Reagan figured it out. We can too if we do not let the racists decide and let the economists play.

Here is a very interesting result of Reagan's actions:

A 2015 study found that the legalization of three million immigrants reduced crime by 3-5%, primarily property crime.[11] The author asserts that this is due to greater job market opportunities for the immigrants.[11]. A 2018 study in the American Economic Journal: Economic Policy found that, by restricting the employment opportunities for unauthorized immigrants, IRCA likely caused an increase in crime.[12][13]

It is sad that our president has chosen to make this a political issue playing on the fears and prejudices of his "base". His actions have made meaningful reform impossible for at least a generation. When this issue is finally addressed, if it is to be addressed in the next 20 years, the motivating factor will be economics. Once the younger members of our society ascend to power it might be something else. They are not afraid of mostly Hispanic culture and less likely to make their decisions on racial prejudice.

It is disingenuous to assert that the issue of immigration is not largely one of race or ethnicity. Even the president has admitted that it is when he:

"Why do we want all these people from Africa here? They're shithole countries ... We should have more people from Norway,"

So let's drop this facade about crime or respect for some immigration law. This is an issue that combines fear, racism and economics. With, for once, economics on the right side.

[Tainari88]

Why do most of the poor in the world want to migrate to the most racist and oppressive nation in world history?

Julian, you don't get what I wrote up there? It is not a strictly American problem. It is not. I saw a film recently in Tagalog which is the national language of the Phillipines. The Filipinos are one of the nations who has the largest amount of exiled people working overseas in the world. Why?

The Filipinos go to Hong Kong. Because jobs in Hong Kong pay more or higher wages than in the Phillipines. They go to the United Arab Emirates. Because it pays more. They go to many places that pay higher wages. It is not because the Filipino people are natural criminals or law breakers. It is because trying to pay all your bills on an average Filipino salary is extremely challenging. Most of them go and work two jobs for 20 or 30 years and send back remittances to help out their families. Proud of being the source of a dignified life for their families. They love their families, they love their cultures and they love their land. But they can't make a living there. It is a fairly common problem in the Third World.

If you examine the vast majority of the world's unauthorized immigrants? They are coming from that exact situation.

Spain is filled with Morroccans and Africans from the Northern parts of Africa selling things on the streets of Madrid, Barcelona, Malaga, etc. Because even though Spain's economy is bad, it is not as bad as in their nations. The Spaniards or Spanish government actually came up with legislation saying, "We prefer the Latin Americans. Give them preferences for becoming EU citizens and Spanish citizens. They are Roman Catholic, speak Spanish and share a history with us. The Northern Africans don't. They are a pain in the ass to sweep off the streets....we don't like them." Lol.

The Euskari or Andorra Basque folk hate Madrid....they always disliked the Castilians. They want to kick them out of their spots. The Catalanes...or Catalonians? Who speak Catalan recently wanted to break away from Castilla or Madrid control. You think Julian the problem with foreigners creating issues for natives is unique to the USA? And that the people coming here are here because they are fleeing oppression and or think that USA is the land of the free or the brave? They go to the USA borders for jobs so they can finally pay bills and save money for a real goal. Like a business or a house or something for their communities and families back home. It is about that for the vast majority.

Sure there are bad people among the throng of immigrants. That has not changed. There were bad people from Ireland during that mass Irish immigration from the 1840's through the 1920's in the USA. Same with the Italians. Sicilians have always been looked down upon in their own nation since time immemorial. And Italians of Sicilian descent are and always have been invaded by many other powerful groups who proceeded to exploit a lot of Sicily. Study history and you see a pattern. Most criminals in any given society are only composed of 1%-10% of the sum total of all citizens. Which means that that small group are repeat criminals. In other words they do the crime over and over again because that is what they live off of. They dedicate themselves to criminal activity most of the day or time. It is their habit. Go to behavior. They are a minority group in all human societies. Not the majority. You would know this if you were studying the problem again from the WHY? Point of view.

[Tainari88]

That American citizens commit crime is not an excuse to justify admitting alien criminals. BTW, I think most would gladly expel American criminals out of the country, but unfortunately it cannot be done. The question that begs an answer is why allow more criminals? The answer is simple: Votes for the DEmocrats!

Look Julian, you are addicted to simplistic answers to things that are systemic and are produced by capitalism all over the world. That is the issue with you and many people who are reactionary and who think the solution is to lock up all the people or deport all the criminals. Crime happens in many many societies. If you want to know the reasons why that happens you go and study criminal justice, criminal psychology and you study which programs are the best for prevention of crime. But you don't do that. You start labeling people who disagree with these shit statements like 'no excuse to justify admitting alien criminals'. Who the hell likes criminals in any political category? Communists? Chinese love drug dealers and criminals don't they? No, they don't. Neither do socialist nations. Or fascist ones. Or liberal ones or any kind of governments headed by politicians. No one in their right minds wants criminals in their countries Julian. So why do you come up with these cheap accusations that anyone with two brain cells know are invalid arguments against your political opponents? Because in your own mind you are fighting the ones who are allowing criminals in to kill, rape and shoot. The conquering hero of protecting the greatness of American life.

It is very simple. This is not difficult. The most common factor for moving out of a nation and into another nation? For immigrants both legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are economic. By far. By huge percentage points. So the solution has to be economic primarily and also examining the causes for corruption and too much insecurity and crime in a nation. Examine the criminal justice system of many nations. The ones who have a lot of out migration have something outrageous like 90% and above without a solution or no resolution of crimes. Some nations where the crimes are resolved in large percentages, unsurprisingly have very low crime rates. The nations where the criminal justice system is broken, or in which it becomes corrupted by money, and favoritism, has a lot of problems and eventual out migration of residents. These are all scientifically provable statistics Julian. So if you want to stop the flow of illegal immigration, the first three things one has to do is:

1) Find out how to get most of the world's peoples living wages. Wages that guarantee food, water, electricity and rent being paid for the vast majority. Dental care, basic health care and enough for basic living such as soap, shoes, clothes, toilet paper and access to a place to go to the bathroom and shower, and a minimum of education. For me minimal education to shoot for is 8th grade for the entire globe. Hopefully get everyone in the world that can mentally do the work a high school education. Minimally.

2) Clean water, and solar power for most or all homes.

3) Examine where one can employ people and where they can raise wages to sustainable levels? That is important.

Got to work on those issues throughout the globe. If you don't? You will get mobile people looking to make a living anyway they can. If I were a person who was about 28 years old. Young, vital and needing to feed my family and the jobs I got are not even paying enough to feed myself? I would be thinking about immigrating too. How long can people live going to work for eight to 12 hours a day and coming home and not being able to pay the electric bill or never being able to rent and living with your parents for the rest of your life because you can't afford rent or have to live with ten people to be able to make the rent? You won't have privacy or a husband or wife or set up a household of your own and have your own stuff. You don't make enough period.

This is not fiction Julian. I have hung around Mexican people young people here...are working call center jobs with college degrees for $1 dollar an hour. They then go home and the rent is $285 a month.

These type of scenarios are the reasons for mass migrations and illegal entries into the USA and other places. Mexico's economy is slowly improving and because of that Mexicans are not running for the border as much as other nationalities. Now it is Salvadorans and Hondurans and Guatemalans. Not surprisingly those three nations are incredibly high crime nations and with abysmal salaries and very low educational levels for the populations. Plus suffering decades of civil war and instability and destroyed towns with an overspill into the capitals like Tegucigalpa, Guatemala City and San Salvador. San Salvador is so bad with gangs and crime and unemployment they are organizing vigilante groups and thinking about killing drug dealers directly without any reporting to the cops. Period.

I know many of these people and their national cultures. Beautiful cultures they have. Artistic, ancient tradtions, and in general a very loving tradition of a strong faith based cultures. Central America is one of the most Christian of both Protestant and Evangelical and also Roman Catholic of all nations. Yet they are facing these crisis....the whys are about HUMAN PROBLEMS. Not because these people are some roaches that have to be killed or stamped out and or because they want to take advantage of the Great White people who created the USA and the USA is exceptional and that is why they want to go there. That is stupid thinking.

No one is going to the USA because of those reasons. There are lies galore about the USA circulating in these countries. People believe that shit propaganda about the USA is easy living. No one is told in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc that the USA is filled with drug problems, gang crimes, mafia, corrupt on the take cops or politicians, bad wages, high rents and also aging bridges, airports and high taxes and competition that is stiff for jobs that they are competing for with their sixth grade barely literate educations with zero English speaking skills. No one gives them a reality check. At all.

That is part of the problem as well.

It is not some simplistic issue to solve at all. But the ones who think simplistically think it is.

I won't mention who I think are simplistic people. You know who you are on this thread.

Drlee is a conservative. He thinks the solution is e-verify. But e-verify is being opposed because there are some entrenched economic interests on both sides of the political rotten party aisle who gain a lot of profit from not giving that program traction.

Automation might solve a lot of issues. But in the end? You got a serious problem with many people in the USA competing for jobs that are low skilled labor. And not enough people being trained for high paid vocational or skilled labor. The government hasn't invested in that properly. Too busy spending on shit that is not worth anyone's efforts.

[Julian658]

Look Julian, you are addicted to simplistic answers to things that are systemic and are produced by capitalism all over the world.

Today in 2019: This is the most prosperous time in world history. And world poverty continues to fall. The only nation where poverty has increased is Venezuela.

That is the issue with you and many people who are reactionary and who think the solution is to lock up all the people or deport all the criminals. Crime happens in many many societies. If you want to know the reasons why that happens you go and study criminal justice, criminal psychology and you study which programs are the best for prevention of crime. But you don't do that. You start labeling people who disagree with these shit statements like 'no excuse to justify admitting alien criminals'. Who the hell likes criminals in any political category? Communists? Chinese love drug dealers and criminals don't they? No, they don't. Neither do socialist nations. Or fascist ones. Or liberal ones or any kind of governments headed by politicians. No one in their right minds wants criminals in their countries Julian. So why do you come up with these cheap accusations that anyone with two brain cells know are invalid arguments against your political opponents? Because in your own mind you are fighting the ones who are allowing criminals in to kill, rape and shoot. The conquering hero of protecting the greatness of American life.

You finally make some sense. No one likes criminals. But, the question that begs an answer is why are the Democrats in America soft on this issue. It is not so much that they love crime. They simply want new voters. By. the way some socialist nations combat crime better than the West due to their authoritarian nature.

It is very simple. This is not difficult. The most common factor for moving out of a nation and into another nation? For immigrants both legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are economic.

And where do they want to go? To a Western Capitalist nation based on Enlightenment values!

So the solution has to be economic primarily and also examining the causes for corruption and too much insecurity and crime in a nation. Examine the criminal justice system of many nations. The ones who have a lot of out migration have something outrageous like 90% and above without a solution or no resolution of crimes. Some nations where the crimes are resolved in large percentages, unsurprisingly have very low crime rates. The nations where the criminal justice system is broken, or in which it becomes corrupted by money, and favoritism, has a lot of problems and eventual out migration of residents. These are all scientifically provable statistics Julian. So if you want to stop the flow of illegal immigration, the first three things one has to do is:

Why is the crime so low in Japan and South Korea? Do you really want to know the answer?

1) Find out how to get most of the world's peoples living wages. Wages that guarantee food, water, electricity and rent being paid for the vast majority. Dental care, basic health care and enough for basic living such as soap, shoes, clothes, toilet paper and access to a place to go to the bathroom and shower, and a minimum of education. For me minimal education to shoot for is 8th grade for the entire globe. Hopefully get everyone in the world that can mentally do the work a high school education. Minimally.

THe USA cannot take care of its own citizens. Asking to take care of the rest of the world is not practical. And BTW, too much help causes nihilism and a dystopia. Humans need purpose and meaning. Having a caretaker demeans the human condition.

Got to work on those issues throughout the globe. If you don't? You will get mobile people looking to make a living anyway they can. If I were a person who was about 28 years old. Young, vital and needing to feed my family and the jobs I got are not even paying enough to feed myself? I would be thinking about immigrating too. How long can people live going to work for eight to 12 hours a day and coming home and not being able to pay the electric bill or never being able to rent and living with your parents for the rest of your life because you can't afford rent or have to live with ten people to be able to make the rent? You won't have privacy or a husband or wife or set up a household of your own and have your own stuff. You don't make enough period.

The USA has a relatively low fertility rate (not as bad as Europe or Japan). Immigrants will be needed to avoid a population that is old and childless. Immigrants are appreciated as they work hard and when legal commit very little crime. But, there is no point in saying American citizens also commit crime therefore let the criminals come in.

This is not fiction Julian. I have hung around Mexican people young people here...are working call center jobs with college degrees for $1 dollar an hour. They then go home and the rent is $285 a month.

Humans align themselves in a natural hierarchy of competence. These days a college degree in soft sciences is meaningless. For many it is best to be an electrician or a plumber. The history of the world has always been related to a human hierarchy. The only thing that can be done is provide help to those at the bottom and hope they do not become nihilistic.

No one is going to the USA because of those reasons. There are lies galore about the USA circulating in these countries. People believe that shit propaganda about the USA is easy living. No one is told in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc that the USA is filled with drug problems, gang crimes, mafia, corrupt on the take cops or politicians, bad wages, high rents and also aging bridges, airports and high taxes and competition that is stiff for jobs that they are competing for with their sixth grade barely literate educations with zero English speaking skills. No one gives them a reality check. At all.

Welcome to reality! So why is crime so low in Japan and South Korea?

Drlee is a conservative. He thinks the solution is e-verify. But e-verify is being opposed because there are some entrenched economic interests on both sides of the political rotten party aisle who gain a lot of profit from not giving that program traction.

IN my neck of the woods 99% of construction work is done by Hispanics. They are thriving! The right wants immigrants as employees and the left wants immigrants as voters. However, the entire world cannot be saved. Not every person in Latin America can make it in the USA. There is a natural hierarchy and many are destined to be at the bottom.

Automation might solve a lot of issues. But in the end? You got a serious problem with many people in the USA competing for jobs that are low skilled labor. And not enough people being trained for high paid vocational or skilled labor. The government hasn't invested in that properly. Too busy spending on shit that is not worth anyone's efforts.

UBI will be implemented. I pray it does not lead to nihilism and drug use.

[Julian658]

Julian, you don't get what I wrote up there? It is not a strictly American problem. It is not. I saw a film recently in Tagalog which is the national language of the Phillipines. The Filipinos are one of the nations who has the largest amount of exiled people working overseas in the world. Why?

The Filipinos go to Hong Kong. Because jobs in Hong Kong pay more or higher wages than in the Phillipines. They go to the United Arab Emirates. Because it pays more. They go to many places that pay higher wages. It is not because the Filipino people are natural criminals or law breakers. It is because trying to pay all your bills on an average Filipino salary is extremely challenging. Most of them go and work two jobs for 20 or 30 years and send back remittances to help out their families. Proud of being the source of a dignified life for their families. They love their families, they love their cultures and they love their land. But they can't make a living there. It is a fairly common problem in the Third World.

If you examine the vast majority of the world's unauthorized immigrants? They are coming from that exact situation.

Agreed!

Spain is filled with Morroccans and Africans from the Northern parts of Africa selling things on the streets of Madrid, Barcelona, Malaga, etc. Because even though Spain's economy is bad, it is not as bad as in their nations. The Spaniards or Spanish government actually came up with legislation saying, "We prefer the Latin Americans. Give them preferences for becoming EU citizens and Spanish citizens. They are Roman Catholic, speak Spanish and share a history with us. The Northern Africans don't. They are a pain in the ass to sweep off the streets....we don't like them." Lol.

That is a true statement, but many will say it is racism. BTW, many American blacks remain unintegrated to the American society due to cultural differences. This is after 300 years!

The Euskari or Andorra Basque folk hate Madrid....they always disliked the Castilians. They want to kick them out of their spots. The Catalanes...or Catalonians? Who speak Catalan recently wanted to break away from Castilla or Madrid control. You think Julian the problem with foreigners creating issues for natives is unique to the USA? And that the people coming here are here because they are fleeing oppression and or think that USA is the land of the free or the brave? They go to the USA borders for jobs so they can finally pay bills and save money for a real goal. Like a business or a house or something for their communities and families back home. It is about that for the vast majority.

We evolved in tribes. For many it is difficult not to be tribal. The amygdala fires up every time they encounter a non-tribe member.

Sure there are bad people among the throng of immigrants. That has not changed. There were bad people from Ireland during that mass Irish immigration from the 1840's through the 1920's in the USA. Same with the Italians. Sicilians have always been looked down upon in their own nation since time immemorial. And Italians of Sicilian descent are and always have been invaded by many other powerful groups who proceeded to exploit a lot of Sicily. Study history and you see a pattern. Most criminals in any given society are only composed of 1%-10% of the sum total of all citizens. Which means that that small group are repeat criminals. In other words they do the crime over and over again because that is what they live off of. They dedicate themselves to criminal activity most of the day or time. It is their habit. Go to behavior. They are a minority group in all human societies. Not the majority. You would know this if you were studying the problem again from the WHY? Point of view.

Agreed!

[Tainari88]

Today in 2019: This is the most prosperous time in world history. And world poverty continues to fall. The only nation where poverty has increased is Venezuela.

Tell that to those people living in Alabama that the World Health Organization states has hookworm in their water supply. Tell that to the Americans who study food growth and agricultural practices and in Fresno, California they throw out a full third of all the food. It is left to rot. Yet, a large portion of working people with low wages in California visit food banks to make end's meet every month.

Sorry to break the news to you Julian but a lot of the world is not doing well. Not the entire world. You want some links to world poverty stats and how many children in the world die from undernourishment? How many people immigrate because of war, famine, instability, high unemployment, high crime, domestic violence, political persecution, terroristic threats, ethnic cleansing campaigns? There are a whole lot of those folks. Syria alone is going to lose a whole lot of its population because of war. Who is going to take them in? The European Union, the surrounding nations of Jordan, Turkey, etc. You got problems all over. The USA is not in Europe. It is in the Americas. Who are the poor people in the Americas? The Latin Americans. It is logical you will get them running across the border. People flee poverty. Also again, stop the propaganda and do some reality check campaigns in these Latin American towns. That would be effective. Gather some town hall meetings in Honduras and talk to them about what it takes to get a hearing in immigration court in the USA. How much money you got to pay for immigration apps, and how many immigration lawyers charge per hour in the top ten Latino rich populations in the USA cities and counties. How realistic it is to get a job without authorization and the actual reality of working without a work permit in the USA? English, cold climates, high rents, racist assholes who hate your guts and fantasize shooting Spanish speaking Indian looking people in their racist minds....think of every realistic discouragement you can think of. Campaign with a big sign in Spanish "The USA sucks for Latinos. Don't make the journey it is not worth it and here are the reasons. We are projecting the project...say no to the USA run tonight in the Main Plaza at 7pm. Be there. " That would be more productive use of funds to discourage illegal immigration than some idea that you are going to deport 20 million people and send them on planes and house them in Deportation Detention centers and you will spend thousands of dollars per person trying to oust them from the USA. Do some prevention in those nations. Lol. Go ahead....anti USA propaganda. Lol.

You finally make some sense. No one likes criminals. But, the question that begs an answer is why are the Democrats in America soft on this issue. It is not so much that they love crime. They simply want new voters. By. the way some socialist nations combat crime better than the West due to their authoritarian nature.

Julian, no one wants criminals. The first question they asked me in Mexican immigration is if I had a criminal record. They don't want criminals from other nations in Mexico. Cuba? The same thing. You will be out of luck trying to find some immigration office in some nation all over the world that loves crime and criminals. No one wants that shit in their territory. No one.

And where do they want to go? To a Western Capitalist nation based on Enlightenment values!

No, Julian you are assuming that poor people from the Third World go to school and read books on "the French Enlightenment" and the European people's superior value systems. No one does that Julian. The conversations around Mexican and Latin American nations dinner tables surrounding runs to the border? Are like this in Spanish:

Jose: Mom, the crop failed again this year. We owe money to Super Prestamos and the interest rate to the Coppel store is 18%. No way we are getting out of the problem this year. Rodrigo called me from a town called Pacifica in Northern California. He has a basement he can rent me for $700 a month. I can work two dishwasher jobs there with two different shifts for $2800 a month. I send you one half of it and keep the rest to live on...we'll be out of the woods in one year. And then I can come back and go back to the rancho we always loved.

Maria (his mother): Son, pray to the Virgin for your safety. And go and have success. Without you there is no hope of getting out of the jam we are in financially. The alternative is the narcos and they wind up killing you if you don't pay up on time. May La Virgen bless you son. When are you leaving?

The enlightenment values are never discussed. You are not really understanding what motivates this kind of move are you?

Why is the crime so low in Japan and South Korea? Do you really want to know the answer?

Julian it better not be because the Asians are higher IQ and the Indians are inferior or some such nonsense Julian. Japan was an empire and much hated in Korea and in China and anyplace they invaded and created issues with thoughts of Imperialism. The reason those nations have low crime is that they have high resolve the crime rates. And they also dedicate time to that problem. And good systems. I have read it. It can be reproduced but it has to have that resolved. Right now on a graph @late posted the USA has more corruption happening than Spain and other countries. It does. So it is about a series of factors that affect corruption. Don't assume it is about the people's bad culture unless you are willing to think the Spaniards are naturally less corrupt than the USA is. Because the graph on the corruption index of nations places the USA below Spain and many other nations.

THe USA cannot take care of its own citizens. Asking to take care of the rest of the world is not practical. And BTW, too much help causes nihilism and a dystopia. Humans need purpose and meaning. Having a caretaker demeans the human condition.

Who the hell is talking about the USA taking care of all the world? That is stupid in the extreme Julian. Have you been reading what I write or are you arguing with yourself? The reality is that the USA needs to realize that the entire system of economics currently in the works and in the most common use for most nations in the world is not working. It is not generating enough security for the majority of people in the entire world. It is not even doing the job of securing its OWN populations. That is what analysis of capitalism and where it fails is important. Currently there are nations that are more stable and less problematic. But instead of the USA taking a page out of their book they are doubling down on income wealth gaps growing increasingly bad. This says it all:

So, what does this socialist think about this? The dude mentions the socialist way of coping....but Americans don't go for that...but they are currently WAY Off thinking that things are really much better than they are currently. They are not. The problem is growing. Mexico has huge gaps in income inequality. The USA if it continues the path they currently are on will have the same issues Mexico has. A big group of people who are poor and struggling and a very small group with obscenely exaggerated wealth inequality. Period. Some working class Americans in forum discussions are talking about moving to Canada just for health care problems they want to resolve. They got tired of waiting for that to be solved and are considering immigrating because of it. You think these issues are about some superior value system or is it about economic problems faced by the inadequate wages by many workers all over the world?

The USA has a relatively low fertility rate (not as bad as Europe or Japan). Immigrants will be needed to avoid a population that is old and childless. Immigrants are appreciated as they work hard and when legal commit very little crime. But, there is no point in saying American citizens also commit crime therefore let the criminals come in.

Who the hell says let the criminals in? No one wants that. No one wants crime. The only ones who keep thinking other political groups want crime are the ones who believe fake news reports about what the other side is about. It is not logical to think you are trying to get voted in to a political office in any country and your campaign says, "We want crime to blossom and we love criminals in our hoods." Not even people living in the most crime infested of the worst of the worst all over the world ever want crime in their neighborhoods. They are STUCK with crime because they can't afford to move out. Be realistic Julian. Don't argue about shit no one does.

Humans align themselves in a natural hierarchy of competence. These days a college degree in soft sciences is meaningless. For many it is best to be an electrician or a plumber. The history of the world has always been related to a human hierarchy. The only thing that can be done is provide help to those at the bottom and hope they do not become nihilistic.

You really don't understand communities outside your own head do you? Nihilism. The communities in Latin America are not alienated. There is a very good study done by an Anthropologist who decided to make money creating a graph of different cultural values around the world. Where cultures were judged on different thoughts and values. He then rated them. He did this because he was a Dutchman who went to Brazil and had culture shock and did not understand Brazilian ways of thinking and thought there had to be a scientific system to figure out nations and why they had certain values. His scale is called Clifford Geertz. Let me put in the link. Nihilism and alienation and all that shit you mention is very low or non existent in Latin American cultures. Chileans are some of the least individualistic thinkers in the world. The USA and Australia and the UK are some of the most individualistic and as a consequence they suffer the most from nihilism and from lack of communal values. Did you know that? They suffer the most from alienation and feeling lonely and isolated. As a culture the USA has that issue. Not every culture does. It is interesting. Worth studying for sure. Geertz decided to do some serious work on how to get at value systems within the social sciences and or cultural anthropology that is not focused on cultures that are not modern cultures.




https://www.ias.edu/clifford-geertz-work-and-legacy

Welcome to reality! So why is crime so low in Japan and South Korea?

Go ahead Julian, I am sure you think you are brilliant and will enlighten me about how Japan and South Korea are the low crime areas...that you think explains the inferiority of the hierarchy of the world. Etc. I find your thoughts shallow but this is your shot. Lol.

IN my neck of the woods 99% of construction work is done by Hispanics. They are thriving! The right wants immigrants as employees and the left wants immigrants as voters. However, the entire world cannot be saved. Not every person in Latin America can make it in the USA. There is a natural hierarchy and many are destined to be at the bottom.

What does this mean above? That the Hispanics thrive? But the entire world can't be saved? The workers Julian have a right in any country they work that is not in feudal slavery times--to a wage. That is the reality. In Mexico workers here if they work for many companies have a right to a Christmas bonus in December of doubling their regular wages. By Mexican law they have to pay that amount or be sued. Because Mexico is a country that is Roman Catholic and they love Christmas. Lol. So the Hispanics are dummies is that what you are saying? Or the dummies in construction can't be saved and so that is what needs to happen? Keep the ones working in construction and make sure the dummy Mexicans or whatever don't overrun the society? Explain what your statement says above? Please....

UBI will be implemented. I pray it does not lead to nihilism and drug use.

Currently the issue is that the biggest pill popping dying like flies with drug overdosing is from mostly white towns in the Midwest like Springfield, Ohio. Here is the video:

I don't see a lot of "Hispanic" Construction workers in the drug problem scene in that video. It is about unemployed working class Americans in the midwest who are not getting the American Dream.

[Pants-of-dog]

...
Violating our immigration laws is far more severe than jaywalking.
...

https://www.politifact.com/florida/stat ... lly-crime/

As Florida House members took up a bill that would increase penalties for certain violent crimes committed by undocumented immigrants, participants noted a fundamental but often overlooked issue in the overall immigration debate: If you are in the United States illegally, does your mere presence in this country mean that you have committed a crime?

It first came up in comments by Ingrid M. Delgado, associate for social concerns for the Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops. She had come to the Florida House Judiciary Subcommittee on Criminal Justice on March 15, 2017, to testify against HB 83, a bill sponsored by Rep. Dane Eagle, R-Cape Coral, that would heighten the penalties for certain violent offenses -- including sexual battery, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, murder, and the use of a destructive device such as a bomb -- if the defendant was in the country illegally.

Delgado said, "Unlawful presence is not a crime. It is a civil violation."

A few minutes later, Rep. Jennifer Sullivan, R-Mount Dora, spoke in favor of the bill, saying she wanted to remind her colleagues about the legal status of the people the law targets.

"It amazes me, honestly, that we've even been talking about this as long as we have," she said. "I feel like in the midst of this, something has gotten lost that is a crucial, main point. And that is the fact that we're talking about people who are here illegally. That means that, legally, they are breaking the law."

The bill ultimately advanced through the subcommittee on a party-line vote, with Democrats voting against it.

But we wanted to get to the bottom of whether undocumented immigrants were committing a crime by just being in the country.

According to legal experts, the answer is that most of the time, unlawful presence is not a crime.

When we checked with the Florida Conference of Catholic Bishops, Michele M. Taylor, the group’s associate director for communications, pointed to the 2012 Supreme Court case Arizona vs. United States. The majority opinion found that "as a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States."

Experts agreed. Unlawful presence is neither a felony nor a misdemeanor, said Ilya Shapiro, a senior fellow in constitutional studies at the libertarian Cato Institute. It is a civil infraction that results in removal and a bar on re-entry for a certain period of time.

"Not everything that’s illegal — meaning against the law or violating the law — is a crime," Shapiro said. "There are civil violations, like when you get a parking ticket. ‘Unlawful presence’ is one of these. You don't go to jail or receive any other criminal punishment for being in the country illegally — you get deported."

Gabriel (Jack) Chin, a professor and director of clinical legal education at the University of California-Davis law school, echoed this analysis.

"It is not a crime to be present in the United States without authorization, such as by overstaying a visa," Chin said. "But such a person is subject to being deported."

That said, it’s also important to distinguish between "unlawful presence" and "unlawful entry," said Kermit Roosevelt, a University of Pennsylvania law professor. Improper entry by an alien is indeed a misdemeanor, Roosevelt said.

This distinction can make the use of these terms tricky.

For instance, an undocumented immigrant who entered the United States improperly would have committed a crime. However, once that person is here, the simple act of being in the United States unlawfully is not by itself a crime.

"It is a crime to cross the border other than as designated by immigration officials, but there is no separate crime for being unlawfully present in the United States," Chin said.

Another example of illegal entry would be if an individual is found in the United States after previously having been deported.

"Unlawful re-entry after a deportation order can be a federal crime, depending on circumstances," Taylor said.

Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that generally opposes loosening immigration laws, said that while illegal presence is not a crime, it’s easy for such individuals to run into separate criminal problems even beyond their method of entry, such as filling out an employment eligibility form to get a job when they aren’t eligible to work.

.....

So, jaywalking is actually more severe than being in the country illegally.

———————-

@Julian658

How does that relate to my point?

[Julian658]

Tell that to those people living in Alabama that the World Health Organization states has hookworm in their water supply. Tell that to the Americans who study food growth and agricultural practices and in Fresno, California they throw out a full third of all the food. It is left to rot. Yet, a large portion of working people with low wages in California visit food banks to make end's meet every month.

Capitalism is flawed. Marx was correct in his analysis of capitalism and hence he is very compelling to young people in every generation. Sadly, as I said in another post humans align themselves in a hierarchy and the spoils and arenot distributed evenly.

Sorry to break the news to you Julian but a lot of the world is not doing well. Not the entire world. You want some links to world poverty stats and how many children in the world die from undernourishment? How many people immigrate because of war, famine, instability, high unemployment, high crime, domestic violence, political persecution, terroristic threats, ethnic cleansing campaigns?

That is the history of humanity. I must mention one more thing that is quite typical of people in the left. They always compare the state of the world to an utopia. Within this context any deficiency is a major sin. I say it is best to compare today with prior eras. In 1800 97% of the world was poor. Today only 10-15% of the population lives in extreme poverty. That is an amazing improvement thanks to capitalism. Hopefully extreme poverty wil be eradicated by 2050.

Gather some town hall meetings in Honduras and talk to them about what it takes to get a hearing in immigration court in the USA. How much money you got to pay for immigration apps, and how many immigration lawyers charge per hour in the top ten Latino rich populations in the USA cities and counties. How realistic it is to get a job without authorization and the actual reality of working without a work permit in the USA? English, cold climates, high rents, racist assholes who hate your guts and fantasize shooting Spanish speaking Indian looking people in their racist minds....think of every realistic discouragement you can think of.

Yes, it is difficult to make it. In fact the process of deciding to leave and migrate separates the wheat from the chaff. Most with no drive stay put. Racism is alive and well in the entire world; but racism is much less in Westren democracies rooted in Judeo Christian values. Once again you compare the system to utopia.

No, Julian you are assuming that poor people from the Third World go to school and read books on "the French Enlightenment" and the European people's superior value systems. No one does that Julian. The conversations around Mexican and Latin American nations dinner tables surrounding runs to the border? Are like this in Spanish:

Agreed

Jose: Mom, the crop failed again this year. We owe money to Super Prestamos and the interest rate to the Coppel store is 18%. No way we are getting out of the problem this year. Rodrigo called me from a town called Pacifica in Northern California. He has a basement he can rent me for $700 a month. I can work two dishwasher jobs there with two different shifts for $2800 a month. I send you one half of it and keep the rest to live on...we'll be out of the woods in one year. And then I can come back and go back to the rancho we always loved.

Maria (his mother): Son, pray to the Virgin for your safety. And go and have success. Without you there is no hope of getting out of the jam we are in financially. The alternative is the narcos and they wind up killing you if you don't pay up on time. May La Virgen bless you son. When are you leaving?

Agreed

The enlightenment values are never discussed. You are not really understanding what motivates this kind of move are you?

America was founded by Englishmen that were the product of the Enlightenment.

Julian it better not be because the Asians are higher IQ and the Indians are inferior or some such nonsense Julian. Japan was an empire and much hated in Korea and in China and anyplace they invaded and created issues with thoughts of Imperialism. The reason those nations have low crime is that they have high resolve the crime rates. And they also dedicate time to that problem. And good systems. I have read it. It can be reproduced but it has to have that resolved. Right now on a graph @late posted the USA has more corruption happening than Spain and other countries. It does. So it is about a series of factors that affect corruption. Don't assume it is about the people's bad culture unless you are willing to think the Spaniards are naturally less corrupt than the USA is. Because the graph on the corruption index of nations places the USA below Spain and many other nations.

Your words, not mine.

To be continued!

[Doug64]

@Doug64

Why do you assume that all these Breitbart articles are true?

Breitbart has been caught lying about such things in the past.

While everyone makes the occasional mistake, I used to generally assume that facts presented in articles are true regardless of who published them. I believed that while bias and bigotry could lead to spin of those facts, to leaving out facts that are inconvenient, and to ignoring stories the biased and bigoted consider unimportant while boosting stories that support their biases, journalists wouldn't be stupid enough to publish "facts" that they haven't bothered to verify--especially when the truth of those facts are easily verified. Since Trump was elected, given the rampant Trump Derangement Syndrome suffered by the MSM(D) leading them to push whatever story might lead to Trump's destruction I have ceased to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But I haven't done the same for the non-MSM(D), so I'll continue to assume their facts, at least, are true until it is demonstrated otherwise. So you'll need to demonstrate that Breitbart has "lied about such things in the past," rather than simply made the occasional inevitable mistake.

Convicted Illegal Alien Child Molester Freed into U.S. by Sanctuary County

An illegal alien convicted of molesting a child was released by a North Carolina sanctuary county despite federal immigration officials requesting he be turned over to them for arrest and deportation.

Marvin Ramirez Torres, a 26-year-old illegal alien from El Salvador, was released by the Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office after being convicted Tuesday of sexually abusing and molesting an 11-year-old girl. A judge sentenced Torres to time served because he had spent about two years in prison, allowing him to escape additional jail time.

The release of Torres came after Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) requested that Buncombe hold the illegal alien in prison until he could be turned over to the agency. Instead, Sheriff Quentin Miller decided to release Torres back onto the streets, forcing ICE agents to then find and arrest the illegal alien on their own.

“This is yet another example of a clear public safety threat being released into North Carolina communities rather than into ICE custody due to local sheriff policies on ICE non-cooperation,” said Acting ICE Director Matt Albence in a statement. “Continued decisions to refuse cooperation with ICE serve as an open invitation to aliens who commit criminal offenses that these counties are a safe haven for persons seeking to evade federal authorities, and residents of Buncombe County are less safe due to these misguided sanctuary policies.”

Since February, Buncombe County has shielded and protected criminal illegal aliens from arrest and deportation by ICE — choosing to instead release them back into American communities.

As Breitbart News reported, the sanctuary county of Mecklenburg County, North Carolina, is expected to soon release two illegal aliens charged with raping children and an illegal alien woman charged with trafficking heroin.

A July report by the Epoch Times noted research by North Carolinians For Immigration Reform and Enforcement (NCFIRE), which stated that in the last one and a half years, more than 330 illegal aliens have been charged with nearly 1,200 child sex crimes in North Carolina. Over the last four and a half years, the NCFIRE’s research states that an average of 34 illegal aliens in North Carolina are charged every month with child sex crimes.

[Pants-of-dog]

While everyone makes the occasional mistake, I used to generally assume that facts presented in articles are true regardless of who published them. I believed that while bias and bigotry could lead to spin of those facts, to leaving out facts that are inconvenient, and to ignoring stories the biased and bigoted consider unimportant while boosting stories that support their biases, journalists wouldn't be stupid enough to publish "facts" that they haven't bothered to verify--especially when the truth of those facts are easily verified. Since Trump was elected, given the rampant Trump Derangement Syndrome suffered by the MSM(D) leading them to push whatever story might lead to Trump's destruction I have ceased to give them the benefit of the doubt.

But I haven't done the same for the non-MSM(D), so I'll continue to assume their facts, at least, are true until it is demonstrated otherwise. So you'll need to demonstrate that Breitbart has "lied about such things in the past," rather than simply made the occasional inevitable mistake.

Please note that I have already provided such evidence. But I will do so again:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/

QUESTIONABLE SOURCE

A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news. Fake News is the deliberate attempt to publish hoaxes and/or disinformation for the purpose of profit or influence (Learn More). Sources listed in the Questionable Category may be very untrustworthy and should be fact checked on a per article basis. Please note sources on this list are not considered fake news unless specifically written in the reasoning section for that source. See all Questionable sources.

Overall, we rate Breitbart Questionable based on extreme right wing bias, publication of conspiracy theories and propaganda as well as numerous false claims.

And it seems that your reason for believing Breitbart despite its known propensity for lying is because it agrees with your ideological preconceived notions.

And it seems that you are ignoring the statistical evidence that there is no relationship between undocumented migrants and crime.

[Julian658]

Who the hell is talking about the USA taking care of all the world? That is stupid in the extreme Julian. Have you been reading what I write or are you arguing with yourself? The reality is that the USA needs to realize that the entire system of economics currently in the works and in the most common use for most nations in the world is not working. It is not generating enough security for the majority of people in the entire world. It is not even doing the job of securing its OWN populations. That is what analysis of capitalism and where it fails is important. Currently there are nations that are more stable and less problematic. But instead of the USA taking a page out of their book they are doubling down on income wealth gaps growing increasingly bad. This says it all:

Wealth inequality is growing and that causes a lot of concerns. A wide gap is perceived as highly unjust even if absolute poverty is less. Most people focus on relative poverty rather than absolute poverty. If the rich were also poor then the poor would not have a point of reference. The truth is that in America a poor person today likely eats better than a middle class person in 1900. Have you noted how there are no fat people no fat people in old photos. IN those days a fat person was something to be seen as an attraction in a circus. Now we have an epidemic of obesity among the poor due to excess calories and they feel very oppressed. The same person would be very thin in 1920 and would not complain. IN any event improving absolute poverty does not matter because people always look at the wealth gap and or compare themselves to the Utopia.

The wealth gap is terrible and if due to corruption the corruption must stop. However, there is also the possibility the gap the gap is unavoidable in a free society. For every brain surgeon there are thousands of average people. For every athlete in the major leagues there are millions that don't even make it to Triple A baseball. For every Mozart and Beethoven there were countless of mediocre composers. And for every billionaire like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos there are millions of people that earn little money. This is the way it has always been. Nut, that does not mean the gap is harmless. As said above it causes a lot of stress.

What to do about the wealth gap? Pick your choice:

1. Tax 99% of the wealth and use it for social programs.
2. Prevent people from earning so much money.

Which one prefer? Which one is less oppressive and authoritarian.

This is a very difficult problem. In reality the issue is not how much money Bill Gate earns. The issue isthat there are people that somehow cannot make a good living in this system (relative to others).

So, what does this socialist think about this? The dude mentions the socialist way of coping....but Americans don't go for that...but they are currently WAY Off thinking that things are really much better than they are currently. They are not. The problem is growing. Mexico has huge gaps in income inequality. The USA if it continues the path they currently are on will have the same issues Mexico has. A big group of people who are poor and struggling and a very small group with obscenely exaggerated wealth inequality. Period. Some working class Americans in forum discussions are talking about moving to Canada just for health care problems they want to resolve. They got tired of waiting for that to be solved and are considering immigrating because of it. You think these issues are about some superior value system or is it about economic problems faced by the inadequate wages by many workers all over the world?

I agree! Something must be done. What do you propose?

You really don't understand communities outside your own head do you? Nihilism. The communities in Latin America are not alienated. There is a very good study done by an Anthropologist who decided to make money creating a graph of different cultural values around the world. Where cultures were judged on different thoughts and values. He then rated them. He did this because he was a Dutchman who went to Brazil and had culture shock and did not understand Brazilian ways of thinking and thought there had to be a scientific system to figure out nations and why they had certain values. His scale is called Clifford Geertz. Let me put in the link. Nihilism and alienation and all that shit you mention is very low or non existent in Latin American cultures. Chileans are some of the least individualistic thinkers in the world. The USA and Australia and the UK are some of the most individualistic and as a consequence they suffer the most from nihilism and from lack of communal values. Did you know that? They suffer the most from alienation and feeling lonely and isolated. As a culture the USA has that issue. Not every culture does. It is interesting. Worth studying for sure. Geertz decided to do some serious work on how to get at value systems within the social sciences and or cultural anthropology that is not focused on cultures that are not modern cultures.

Nihilism is common in the West among young men. You are correct, I have no arguments. People in poor countries often score higher in the happy scale than citizens of developed countries. Many young men in America are not dating or having sex, They remain in a basement playing video games all day or doing porn. Women are not dating either. The feminists have convinced then to postpone marriage and family so they can work. Now these women are alone with no family. If you have a solution you may win a novel prize. However, I think it is a byproduct of having too much.

Go ahead Julian, I am sure you think you are brilliant and will enlighten me about how Japan and South Korea are the low crime areas...that you think explains the inferiority of the hierarchy of the world. Etc. I find your thoughts shallow but this is your shot. Lol.

This is not about who is smarter. I am simply describing to you the state of the world. Facts are just facts. Japan has very low crime. Why? Switzerland and Denmark also have low crime rates.

What does this mean above? That the Hispanics thrive? But the entire world can't be saved? The workers Julian have a right in any country they work that is not in feudal slavery times--to a wage. That is the reality. In Mexico workers here if they work for many companies have a right to a Christmas bonus in December of doubling their regular wages. By Mexican law they have to pay that amount or be sued. Because Mexico is a country that is Roman Catholic and they love Christmas. Lol. So the Hispanics are dummies is that what you are saying? Or the dummies in construction can't be saved and so that is what needs to happen? Keep the ones working in construction and make sure the dummy Mexicans or whatever don't overrun the society? Explain what your statement says above? Please....

All I said is that Hispanics dominate the construction business in my neck of the woods. Most are making a very good living. It is just an observation. My wife has not hired a native Anglo for construction in at least 30 years.