Undocumented Aliens and Crime - Page 8 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15045772
late wrote:That would not be smart.


No, it would not be cheap.

But it would be right...
#15045773
By definition, every illegal immigrant is already a criminal. It's a 100% crime rate. What's funny is that when you say this it seems to people like this is irrelevant.

It's not.

I would not regard a person who is an illegal resident of Korea as someone who isn't breaking the law. Maybe if it is a mixup and it has been a situation for a couple of weeks, I understand, and I will laugh with them when they tell me the story of how they got into that situation... But for years on end, illegally working and residing in a country? That is truly a crime and not just on the level of a speeding ticket.
#15045776
BigSteve wrote:No, it would not be cheap.

But it would be right...


Your ideas of what is right and wrong do not apply outside your head.

Other industries like construction would also be negatively affected, to the point where whole sectors of the economy would come to a standstill. And with those lack of unskilled jobs, the skilled jobs that rely on them would also disappear. People that you think of as human (i.e. white people in the USA) would also lose their jobs.

———————

@Verv

By that definition, you are also a criminal, as am I.

And yet, no one thinks we, as white people in North America, are criminals.
#15045783
This isn't true.

I am descended from Francis Cooke, who was on the Mayflower, and his people made a treaty with the Wampanoag in March of 1621, shortly after first contact, and it stated that they could mutually hold one another responsible for crimes that they committed upon one antoher. This treaty is the first in a long line of treaties that my people made with the native Americans which inherently recognized our right to live in the United States.

Chief Massasoit will vouch for me before the court of law -- he will remember my folks. I'm in the clear.

I am sure you can find something similar for yourselves in Canada.

But illegals? I do not know if their ancestors had any treaties or any series of legal agreements with the natives. They might actually be here in violation of both the white man's law and the law of the First Nations.

Check your privilege.
#15045784
Verv wrote:This isn't true.


Are you saying that you never broke a law in the USA?

I am descended from Francis Cooke, who was on the Mayflower, and his people made a treaty with the Wampanoag in March of 1621, shortly after first contact, and it stated that they could mutually hold one another responsible for crimes that they committed upon one antoher. This treaty is the first in a long line of treaties that my people made with the native Americans which inherently recognized our right to live in the United States.

Chief Massasoit will vouch for me before the court of law -- he will remember my folks. I'm in the clear.

I am sure you can find something similar for yourselves in Canada.

But illegals? I do not know if their ancestors had any treaties or any series of legal agreements with the natives. They might actually be here in violation of both the white man's law and the law of the First Nations.

Check your privilege.


I doubt that the USA have maintained their side of the bargain, and have therefore violated said treaty.

Also, this is irrelevant to my point that you are also a criminal because you have probably jaywalked or shoplifted or been drunk in public.
#15045792
The treaty with the Wompanoag lasted 50 years, and I think in this first agreement, the right to be present in the US was establsihed peacefully. If any subsequent treaty was designed to remove said right, it would be a human rights violation and a form of genocide. You would be seeking to ethnically cleanse the land of someone just because of their race. Something you oppose, I am sure...

... I am also delighted to see that we have reached the point where, technically, the fact that you have ever jaywalked or been drunk in a public area will now merit you being called a criminal. We are reaching the proper levels of autistic legalism.
#15045801
Other industries like construction would also be negatively affected, to the point where whole sectors of the economy would come to a standstill. And with those lack of unskilled jobs, the skilled jobs that rely on them would also disappear. People that you think of as human (i.e. white people in the USA) would also lose their jobs.


Why have you taken a racist tack? What does race have to do with this?

As to the damage to the economy, I agree. That is why nothing will be done, employer enforcement will not amount to much and illegals will still remain virtual slaves with their families held hostage.

One thing is sure though. Until we do workplace enforcement there will be absolutely no incentive to change the law or consider amnesty. Nothing will change. That is why this thread is absurd. Crime has absolutely nothing to do with it.
#15045804
Verv wrote:The treaty with the Wompanoag lasted 50 years, and I think in this first agreement, the right to be present in the US was establsihed peacefully. If any subsequent treaty was designed to remove said right, it would be a human rights violation and a form of genocide. You would be seeking to ethnically cleanse the land of someone just because of their race. Something you oppose, I am sure...


This does not address any point I made.

Do you agree that you are also a criminal?

... I am also delighted to see that we have reached the point where, technically, the fact that you have ever jaywalked or been drunk in a public area will now merit you being called a criminal. We are reaching the proper levels of autistic legalism.


.....and that is the same logic you used where you described all undocumented migrants as criminals.

If you wish to describe your argument as autistic legalism, feel free. I would not be that rude to autists.
#15045825
Pants-of-dog wrote:You are a criminal because you have broken laws.

This is the exact same argument you used to define all undocumented migrants as criminals.


LOL, OK.

So, basically, everyone is a criminal because we've nearly all jaywalked, so it doesn't really matter that illegal aliens are criminals.

That's the argument.

It would not be upsetting or inflammatory to refer to Pres. Obama as a "criminal!" because he smoked weed 40-50 years ago, and this is a proper title that he should be expected to have.

And, thus, because Pres. Obama can also be called a criminal, it really isn't so bad if you have been living & working illegally in the United States for a decade. It's just a thing that happened -- something that we all do in some form or another, whether we are murdering someone or illegally crossing the street.

Got it.
#15045839
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your ideas of what is right and wrong do not apply outside your head.

Other industries like construction would also be negatively affected, to the point where whole sectors of the economy would come to a standstill. And with those lack of unskilled jobs, the skilled jobs that rely on them would also disappear. People that you think of as human (i.e. white people in the USA) would also lose their jobs.


You need to wrap your head around the idea that any negative effects are acceptable if it means that illegal vermin are kept out of our country...
#15045951
Two Laredoans arrested after broadcasting smuggling attempt on Facebook Live

Two people who broadcast their alleged human smuggling attempt on Facebook Live have been arrested, according to the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Troopers identified the duo as Alejandro Vela, 22, and Karyme Espinoza, 19. Both are from Laredo.

Vela was charged with evading arrest with vehicle, evading arrest on foot, unlawful transport of a person for pecuniary benefit and reckless driving.

Espinoza was charged with unlawful transport of a person for pecuniary benefit and evading arrest on foot. U.S. Border Patrol agents took custody of three passengers who were suspected of entering the country illegally.

The incident unfolded at about 3:58 p.m. Oct. 25 on U.S. 83 in San Ygnacio in Zapata County. A trooper tried to pull over a 2010 Mercedes-Benz sport utility vehicle for a traffic violation.

DPS said the vehicle refused to stop and started to evade at high speeds while traveling north of U.S. 83 toward Laredo. The vehicle approached the Webb and Zapata County line and made a U-turn to travel back to San Ygnacio.

The driver and passengers took off running. Border Patrol assisted in locating the driver, who was identified as Vela, and the passenger, who was identified as Espinoza.

Espinoza used her Facebook account under the name of “Na Mo” to broadcast the pursuit live.


In it, Vela can be heard saying, “I got immigration on my ass” to an uncle. Vela asked the uncle to open the gate to his ranch so could evade law enforcement. But the “tío” was not home, according to the recording.

Espinoza can also be heard allegedly bragging about the suspected human smuggling attempt.

“Hey, I’m live on Facebook,” she says as she poses with the immigrants. The 10-minute video has since gone viral.
#15045979
Pants-of-dog wrote:Other industries like construction would also be negatively affected, to the point where whole sectors of the economy would come to a standstill. And with those lack of unskilled jobs, the skilled jobs that rely on them would also disappear. People that you think of as human (i.e. white people in the USA) would also lose their jobs.


Your last sentence, about who I consider human, is ignorant, and you'll die an old man before you can find anything I've ever said which backs up your stupid claim about me.

You seem to think that, as a good American, I'll be swayed by the suggestion that there might be a negative economic impact if we have no illegal aliens in this country. I'm not. I will gladly pay more for whatever sees a price hike. Period.

Those who believe we should allow any swingin' dick who wants to come into the country to do so have no response for that, because there's no argument they can make. You think I want to pay $7.00 for a head of lettuce? No, I don't.

But I would if it meant that the lettuce was picked by someone who came here legally...
#15046021
Verv wrote:LOL, OK.

So, basically, everyone is a criminal because we've nearly all jaywalked, so it doesn't really matter that illegal aliens are criminals.

That's the argument.

It would not be upsetting or inflammatory to refer to Pres. Obama as a "criminal!" because he smoked weed 40-50 years ago, and this is a proper title that he should be expected to have.

And, thus, because Pres. Obama can also be called a criminal, it really isn't so bad if you have been living & working illegally in the United States for a decade. It's just a thing that happened -- something that we all do in some form or another, whether we are murdering someone or illegally crossing the street.

Got it.


So, then what is your point in calling them criminals?
#15046023
BigSteve wrote:You need to wrap your head around the idea that any negative effects are acceptable if it means that illegal vermin are kept out of our country...


.... according to you. But your weird priorities are not universally accepted or valid, so there is no point discussing it.

Other people might not want to lose their jobs just to be awful to migrants.
#15046029
Pants-of-dog wrote:.... according to you. But your weird priorities are not universally accepted or valid, so there is no point discussing it.

Other people might not want to lose their jobs just to be awful to migrants.


So you believe that Americans are okay with illegals being in our country because it might be a financial benefit?

No good Americans would take that stance...
#15046031
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, then what is your point in calling them criminals?


Is jaywalking a serious crime? Not really, no. We do not think of jaywalkers as "criminals." In fact, if someone told a story about jaywalking and I shouted out, "you criminal!," everyone would chuckle.

Indeed, if someone recalled a story about them smoking weed in college, and I shouted "you criminal!," people would also chuckle.

If I said this about someone about drunk driving, or if someone mentioned working illegally in Japan for 5 years, and I called them a criminal, it would probably be considered rude and immediately spark a debate. Why?

Because we understand that violating the immigration laws of a country is a pretty meaningful offense.
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