Undocumented Aliens and Crime - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15037846
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then this thread has no argument.

No one is allowed to disagree or bring in another viewpoint. Instead, we are all asked to read your biased articles and provide our own, provided that they also support Trump’s racist portrayal of Mexicans as rapists.

The fact that US citizens commit more rape both per capita and in absolute numbers cannot be mentioned.

I already linked to the only study I know off that looked at all the convicted inmates of a state over a three-decade period and found that undocumented aliens committed significantly more and more violent crimes than legal residents. But if you'd rather argue that rapists should be released back into the general population by sanctuary cities/states, feel free. And feel free to ignore that any crimes by undocumented aliens is too much, because they aren't supposed to be here at all.

Can we discuss how female undocumented aliens are far more likely to be raped?

I haven't seen the numbers but I can believe it, their situation makes them considerably more vulnerable--another good reason for effective enforcement of our immigration laws, so they won't be in that situation.
#15037850
Opinions are irrelevant in debate, but since you asked, I condemn all sexual assault.

--------------

Back to the topic:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/amr41/014/2010/en/

    Every year, thousands of people travel through Mexico without legal permission as irregular migrants. The lack of access to protection and justice makes migrants easy targets for criminal gangs and corrupt public officials. Migrants in Mexico are facing a major human rights crisis fuelled by widespread impunity for those responsible for abuses. In this report Amnesty International calls on the federal authorities to lead, develop and implement an action plan to respect, protect and fulfil the rights of irregular migrants in Mexico.


#15037852
Pants-of-dog wrote:Opinions are irrelevant in debate, but since you asked, I condemn all sexual assault.


It's refreshing to learn that there might be a shred of decency in you...

Back to the topic:

Every year, thousands of people travel through Mexico without legal permission as irregular migrants.


Sorry, but that's not the topic, regardless of how much you want it to be.

Once again you demonstrate that you lack any degree of focus and, as a result, you continue to act foolishly.

And "irregular migrants"?

That's fucking laughable.

They're illegal aliens...
#15037860
Pants-of-dog wrote:@BigSteve

I already addressed that in a previous post.

While I understand that @Doug64 decided to make this thread solely about collecting stories that support Trump’s racist portrayal of Mexicans as rapists, the reality of the relationship between undocumented workers and sexual assault is far more complex than that.


I don't care what assholes on the internet say about Mexicans from the USA. I don't care what they say about supposedly íllegal aliens invading their nation and raping half the world and so on and so forth. It is all bullshit. Crime is not about some nationality. It is about other issues. And it applies to White Americans, Black Americans, Asian Americans and many many others. They make it about Mexicans and Central Americans because they need to disrespect someone whom they think is çhanging the demographics, the culture and so on of the nation they want to have remain in a certain cultural mode. English speaking, European extraction and with their own paradigms dominating the future. They fail to realize the evidence is against them.

The only people who are interested in nationalizing into new Americans are not from Europe. They have not been from Europe since about the mid sixties. It is now about half a century of immigrations from African nations, Latin America and China and India and etc and the trend continues like that. Accept that America with time will not be really of European extraction people. Accept that. It won't be about people from Europe. That is the reality.

Who cares if most new Americans will be Mexican? Mexicans are good people. Hard working, and very nice in general. I live here surrounded by Mexicans all day and every day. I got less crime in my street than I had in Denver, Colorado. They had a conference here and this city had the Nobel Peace Prize winners discussing how to make a more peaceful world and the city as known for being peaceful and having low crime.

So Mexicans and being a Mexican equals high crime is a myth. A lie. A falsehood, to redirect the anger Americans have for a depressed wage or lack of being able to pay for their kids college....they look for a scapegoat of the failings of the American economy squeezing the middle classes dry to enrich the 1%ers more.

It doesn't matter what rhetoric the Trump types keep spouting. The reality is that the elementary schools in the largest school districts of the USA's cities are all kids who's parents are not European extraction Americans. WHO CARES? The important thing is for the USA to have people educated and ready to work and be prepared for a new reality for the future. It doesn't matter if the kids parents are Mexicans. It does not.

Who is wanting to do the American new minted citizenship? These people:



1. Mexico

2. China

3. India

4. Cuba

Those are the top four. Two Asian nations and two Latin American ones. Those are the future citizens. Not Ireland, England, Norway, etc.

Figure it out and realize that the US is not a mecca that attracts nations with healthy welfare states, free educations and who can make the same or more in a profession in their own nation rather than coming to the USA. It is a very simple thing. If you can make it in your own country there is no real motivation for coming to the USA and going through all these hoops trying to get citizenship. You either are trying to flee poverty or you are here to get some PhD and when you finish you plan on making a lot of $$$$. Those are the reasons for seeking citizenship in 2019 in the USA.
#15037869
    Violence against migrant women

    “From Arriaga I decided to take the train. Many people
    said, ‘don’t it’s dangerous here’, but my vision has
    always been to help my children, and I wanted to travel
    on top of the train, I wanted to feel like a princess.”
    Teresa, a 25-year-old Salvadoran woman with two children, Amnesty International interview October 2008

    Women and girl migrants, especially those without legal status travelling in remote areas or on trains, are at heightened risk of sexual violence at the hands of criminal gangs, people traffickers, other migrants or corrupt officials. Sexual violence, or the threat of sexual violence, is often used as a means of terrorizing women and their relatives. Many criminal gangs appear to use sexual violence as part of the “price” demanded of migrants. According to some experts, the prevalence of rape is such that people smugglers may require women to have a contraceptive injection prior to the journey as a precaution against pregnancy resulting from rape.

    It is a widely held view – shared by local and international NGOs and health professionals working with migrant women – that as many as six in 10 migrant women and girls are raped.21 A study in 2006 interviewed 90 migrant women held in Iztapalapa Migrants’ Detention Centre, of whom just over half were from Central America. Twenty-three women reported experiencing some kind of violence, including sexual violence. Of these, 13 stated the person responsible was a state official.22 Researchers carrying out the study believed the figures may significantly understate the problem because of the reluctance of women to discuss sexual violence, particularly when they are in detention.

    Many women migrants are deterred from reporting sexual violence by the pressure to continue their journey and the lack of access to an effective complaints procedure. This is compounded by the lack of avenues to secure effective protection and the absence of reliable sources of assistance or support for survivors. Migrants who have been raped have to deal not only with the stigma associated with sexual violence, but also with the risk that if they report the crime they may be deported or that seeking treatment will deprive them of their one chance of reaching the USA. As a result, women migrants rarely report sexual violence and are very unlikely to file criminal complaints.

    Criminal gangs often operate with the co-operation of, or in collaboration with, train drivers, engineers or private security guards on the train routes. For example, on 5 November 2008, 12 migrant women were abducted from a freight train at Las Anonas, Oaxaca state, by a group of armed men. Eyewitnesses testified that the train driver stopped the train for the gang to specifically target the women. A complaint was filed, but the women, who may have been trafficked, were never found.

https://www.amnesty.org/download/Docume ... 010eng.pdf
#15038235
Pants-of-dog wrote:Violence against migrant women

You make an excellent case for convincing these women not to make the trek in the first place, especially since they will often not be any better off here:

Illegal Alien Allegedly Operated Sex Trafficking Business in South Carolina

    An illegal alien allegedly operated a sex trafficking scheme in Goose Creek, South Carolina, delivering illegal alien prostitutes to clients, according to federal immigration officials.

    Maria Antonia Zavaleta-Perez, a 40-year-old illegal alien from Mexico, is accused of running a brothel where she allegedly trafficked illegal alien prostitutes across state lines and sold them to clients for cash, according to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency.

    Zavaleta-Perez, who went by the nickname “La China,” would bring prostitutes, who were also illegal aliens, from North Carolina to South Carolina or have a co-conspirator drive the girls. For about a week, ICE agents allege, Zavaleta-Perez would house two of the girls, sell them to clients, and then trade them out for another two girls a week later.

    The illegal alien allegedly would drive the girls to a client’s home or have them bring clients directly to her house in Goose Creek and charge clients $50 to have sex with the girls.

    When ICE agents surveyed Zavaleta-Perez and her victims, they noticed multiple stops at various locations where illegal alien prostitutes are often delivered.

    Zaveleta-Perez is now being held at the Charleston County Detention Center for charges including illegal entry into the U.S. State officials expect that Zavaleta-Perez will be turned over to U.S. Marshals.

What do you think the odds are that many if not most, or even all, of these undocumented aliens were forced into prostitution to pay off the costs of smuggling them into the country?
#15038320
@Doug64

Formthe answer to that question, see the PDF from Amnesty International that I already cited.

By the way, who do you think were buying the sex slaves in the US? Considering the fact that it requires money and that the vast majority of undocumented workers have very little, the logical answer would be that it was US citizens whom were buying sex slaves.
#15038322
Pants-of-dog wrote:Considering the fact that it requires money and that the vast majority of undocumented workers have very little


And they'd have more of it if they stayed the fuck home...

the logical answer would be that it was US citizens whom were buying sex slaves.


That's merely your opinion, and your opinion is irrelevant and meaningless...
#15038327
Doug64 wrote:You make an excellent case for convincing these women not to make the trek in the first place, especially since they will often not be any better off here:


If we assume that Latinas are rational actors, which may be difficult for some racists to accept, then we can assume that they know the risks of being sexually assaulted and decide to do it anyway.

And if that is the case, then they must be deciding to do so because the alternative (i.e. staying home) is worse.
#15038333
Pants-of-dog wrote:If we assume that Latinas are rational actors, which may be difficult for some racists to accept, then we can assume that they know the risks of being sexually assaulted and decide to do it anyway.

And if that is the case, then they must be deciding to do so because the alternative (i.e. staying home) is worse.


It's noted that all you're doing is assuming things and have nothing of substance on which to base your assumptions except your opinion which, as we've established, is meaningless...
#15038337
Pants-of-dog wrote:List the assumptions I made.


If we assume that Latinas are rational actors, which may be difficult for some racists to accept, then we can assume that they know the risks of being sexually assaulted and decide to do it anyway.

And if that is the case, then they must be deciding to do so because the alternative (i.e. staying home) is worse.


All of your assumptions are irrelevant...
#15038341
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Doug64
By the way, who do you think were buying the sex slaves in the US? Considering the fact that it requires money and that the vast majority of undocumented workers have very little, the logical answer would be that it was US citizens whom were buying sex slaves.

First, the clients aren’t “buying sex slaves,” they are buying time with prostitutes that they may or may not know may or may not be sex slaves. The article doesn’t say that the girls are sex slaves, that’s an assumption on my part that I consider to be reasonable. But yes, I hope that the clients are prosecuted under whatever relevant state laws there might be as well.

This, BTW, is the only real justification I see for laws against prostitution, the cover legal prostitution gives to sex traffickers. But that’s a subject for a separate thread.
Pants-of-dog wrote:If we assume that Latinas are rational actors, which may be difficult for some racists to accept, then we can assume that they know the risks of being sexually assaulted and decide to do it anyway.

And if that is the case, then they must be deciding to do so because the alternative (i.e. staying home) is worse.

Yes, because, thanks to the Democrats’ attempts to keep our borders wide open and prevent hunts for undocumented aliens within the US, they have good reason to believe they can reach and stay in the US, the the eventual dream of US citizenship not out of reach. The dangers are huge as are the costs to us, so we need to show them otherwise so they can reach a different rational decision.
#15038345
Doug64 wrote:First, the clients aren’t “buying sex slaves,” they are buying time with prostitutes that they may or may not know may or may not be sex slaves. The article doesn’t say that the girls are sex slaves, that’s an assumption on my part that I consider to be reasonable. But yes, I hope that the clients are prosecuted under whatever relevant state laws there might be as well.


As long as we agree that most of the people involved in oppressing these women (i.e, the johns) were citizens.

This, BTW, is the only real justification I see for laws against prostitution, the cover legal prostitution gives to sex traffickers. But that’s a subject for a separate thread.

Yes, because, thanks to the Democrats’ attempts to keep our borders wide open and prevent hunts for undocumented aliens within the US, they have good reason to believe they can reach and stay in the US, the the eventual dream of US citizenship not out of reach. The dangers are huge as are the costs to us, so we need to show them otherwise so they can reach a different rational decision.


Are you arguing that mere US citizenship is worth being raped and risking death?
#15038350
Pants-of-dog wrote:How are they wrong?


I never said they were wrong. I said they were irrelevant.

Your assumptions may be correct. But they may also be incorrect.

Given that you've been a failure at supporting those assumptions, there's no reason to believe they're valid or accurate. They represent little more than your opinion which, again, is meaningless...
#15038354
Pants-of-dog wrote:Merely pointing out that I am making some assumptions is not a criticism.


Pointing out that your assumptions aren't based on facts, however, is...
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