2016-2018 Poverty increased in 943 counties - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15055996
Pants-of-dog wrote:While it is true that many people in these places voted for Trump because they (incorrectly) thought he would fix this, it does not change the fact that Trump and his administration will not fix the problem.


The OP opened this post to tell us that Republican Administration was the cause of this problem, which, as the Honourable Gentleman from Estonia had pointed out, is untrue.

Moving off the discussion a bit, I think this is not the first time I have to say I am sick of the OP keep opening posts to preach anti-Trump messages. Not that I am dismissing the information as untrue, but the OP seems doing ineffective things -- unless he believes there are someone here who can kill all Republicans, that is.
Last edited by Patrickov on 25 Dec 2019 15:31, edited 1 time in total.
#15055997
BigSteve wrote:Since libs are so quick to credit Obama for the booming economy, surely they'll assign him blame for this, right?

No?

Hello?


Be more precise: Does the word "him" here mean Trump or Obama?
#15055998
Patrickov wrote:
but the OP seems doing ineffective things -- unless he believes there are someone here who can kill all Republicans, that is.



"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

What I am trying to do is persuade those here that are persuadable. The ones that are not victims of propaganda.
#15056000
late wrote:"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

What I am trying to do is persuade those here that are persuadable. The ones that are not victims of propaganda.


I acknowledge that there are so many people who are "incompetent" that violence is sometimes necessary.

With all due respect, the posts of this Honourable Member are so excessive that they are propaganda to me.

Edit: I found a statement that I can agree with.:
There are situations in which effective violence is the only tool that will do what needs to be done.
#15056003
Patrickov wrote:Be more precise: Does the word "him" here mean Trump or Obama?


Obama.

Libs are loathe to ever say anything bad about the boy king.

And before you libs get all pissy and start whining "racism" because I used the word "boy", I'm referring to his relatively young age when he was elected.

If Mayor Pete wins I'll call him the same...
#15056006
BigSteve wrote:
So you admit to being a failure.



"So when Republicans attack Obamacare (they're still at it), cut programs for the poor (which they're still doing) and ignore a hundred other problems, guess who suffers."

Just pointing out one, among the multitude, of your failures.
#15056007
BigSteve wrote:
Obama.

Libs are loathe to ever say anything bad about the boy king.

And before you libs get all pissy and start whining "racism" because I used the word "boy", I'm referring to his relatively young age when he was elected.

If Mayor Pete wins I'll call him the same...



And if anyone believes that, I've got a bridge I want to sell you.
#15056008
BigSteve wrote:Obama.

Libs are loathe to ever say anything bad about the boy king.


In this case I do not get it. Why does this Gentleman think Obama should be blamed for the increase of poverty during Trump's tenure (2016 - 18)?
#15056010
late wrote:And if anyone believes that, I've got a bridge I want to sell you.


Of course, you'll never find out, since Trump's going to crush whoever the democrats throw into the fray next year...
#15056011
Patrickov wrote:
With all due respect, the posts of this Honourable Member are so excessive that they are propaganda to me.



I can see how you would get that impression.

A lot of what I do is try to limit the damage of Russian, I mean Republican, propaganda.

Since the primary weapon used by propagandists is repetition of falsehoods, my posts are repetitious.

I try to stay grounded in fact, that's the big difference between me and the brainwashed Cult.
#15056012
Patrickov wrote:In this case I do not get it. Why does this Gentleman think Obama should be blamed for the increase of poverty during Trump's tenure (2016 - 18)?


The point I'm making is this:

Idiot democrats give credit for our economy and low unemployment to Obama. They refuse to give Trump the credit he rightly deserves.

So, if they want to give the credit to Obama when things are going well, it only stands to reason that they would assign him blame when things are bad.

Of course, since they're hypocrites, they won't do that...
#15056015
BigSteve wrote:The point I'm making is this:

Idiot democrats give credit for our economy and low unemployment to Obama. They refuse to give Trump the credit he rightly deserves.

So, if they want to give the credit to Obama when things are going well, it only stands to reason that they would assign him blame when things are bad.

Of course, since they're hypocrites, they won't do that...



Because the bad things (as reported in this thread) happened outside Obama's tenure, I think it is natural if some people place the blame on his successor, i.e. Trump, instead of Obama. It may be an opinion on who should be blamed for a change but the logic is not itself groundless.

IMHO it is better to find information to support one's claim rather than simply denouncing the opponent for his standing.
#15056016
Patrickov wrote:Because the bad things (as reported in this thread) happened outside Obama's tenure, I think it is natural if some people place the blame on his successor, i.e. Trump, instead of Obama. It may be an opinion on who should be blamed for a change but the logic is not itself groundless.


This economy and low unemployment has happened outside of Obama's tenure, too. If he doesn't get the blame for the bad things, why should he get credit for the good?
#15056020
BigSteve wrote:This economy and low unemployment has happened outside of Obama's tenure, too. If he doesn't get the blame for the bad things, why should he get credit for the good?



Frankly, this question seems irrelevant to the discussion of this topic, which, IMHO, only includes the following:
1. Whether the poverty problem is true, and
2. If the poverty problem is true, who should be held responsible.

I know this response might be denounced as evading the question, but I am unable to connect the question to the actual discussion topic, so I have to voice it out.
#15056029
Patrickov wrote:
Frankly, this question seems irrelevant to the discussion of this topic, which, IMHO, only includes the following:
1. Whether the poverty problem is true, and
2. If the poverty problem is true, who should be held responsible.

I know this response might be denounced as evading the question, but I am unable to connect the question to the actual discussion topic, so I have to voice it out.



That's what Steve does most of the time.

The problem is real. But it doesn't have a simple answer. This is a partial list... The AG Dept helps Big Ag at the expense of small to medium sized farms. While that made sense a long time ago, now that's nuts.

Medicare cost controls are part of the reason so my rural hospitals have closed.

Republicans started cutting social programs way back in the 1980s. That's part of it.

An empire bleeds a country dry, our failure to maintain our infrastructure has it's roots in all the foolish military things we do.
#15056032
Obama.


Off Topic.

Libs are loathe to ever say anything bad about the boy king.


Why did you even bring him up? In 2016-2018 he was a private citizen in Washington DC and Hawaii.

And before you libs get all pissy and start whining "racism" because I used the word "boy", I'm referring to his relatively young age when he was elected.


Sure you are... :roll:

Obama was not even close to the youngest president when he took office. If you look at when he left office he did not even crack the top 10.

If Mayor Pete wins I'll call him the same...


Sure you will. :roll:

You are simply displaying two typical Trump clone traits.

First you use the term "lib" to describe anyone who disagrees with you or, worse, provides some imagined slight to your "boy" Trump.

Second every time you see one of these imagined slights you have to bring up Obama, AOC, Marx or some other weapon of mass distraction.
#15056033
Drlee wrote:Off Topic.


No, I was asked a question and I answered it...

Why did you even bring him up? In 2016-2018 he was a private citizen in Washington DC and Hawaii.


Because idiot libs routinely laud him whenever something good happens, especially with the economy. So, it's a fair question to ask if idiot libs would also assign him blame when things are shitty. We both know that idiot libs are hypocrites, though, so of course they never would...

Sure you are... :roll:


Not sure what you're saying here. If you've got something on your mind, man up and say it...

Obama was not even close to the youngest president when he took office. If you look at when he left office he did not even crack the top 10.


I memory serves, only four people were younger at the start of their Presidency: Bill Clinton, John Kennedy, Theodore Roosevelt and Ulysses S. Grant. Of course, you can feel free to try to prove me wrong.

We've had 45 Presidents. only four of them were younger than Obama. I'd say that's Obama being close to the youngest...

Sure you will. :roll:


Again, grow a pair and say what you want to say...

You are simply displaying two typical Trump clone traits.

First you use the term "lib" to describe anyone who disagrees with you or, worse, provides some imagined slight to your "boy" Trump.


No, I use the term "lib" to describe hateful, idiot non-thinkers. I don't give a shit if someone slights Trump. I understand that they do it out of hatred and jealousy and it makes me laugh...

Second every time you see one of these imagined slights you have to bring up Obama, AOC, Marx or some other weapon of mass distraction.


And here you are displaying the typical lib tactic of not wanting a comparison. It's fair to compare Presidents, especially when one of them is being attacked. You know as well as anyone that Trump deserves the credit for our economy and low unemployment. However, you're now going to belch up a myriad of reasons why he shouldn't get credit, simply because your blind hatred of the man precludes you from uttering a single positive thing about the man.

Don't worry, the next five years will pass quickly...
#15056034
late wrote:Most of the biggest increases were in areas both rural and Southern."

And you are concerned about this why?

late wrote:We are slowly unraveling what FDR did, with entirely predictable results.

What did FDR do that you think Trump is undoing? FDR built dams that leftists would like to remove. FDR supported power production that leftists say is destroying the environment. What exactly is Trump doing that you find so objectionable?

Like Bullock, Carter has an aging population, and a meat processing plant is its largest employer. It also has an AT&T customer service center, and many residents drive to coal-related jobs in other areas.

But the county has seen a long decline in business related to the coal industry and has been hit by drug addiction as opioids and meth come in on highways from urban areas, Webb said.

Most of the county’s 20,000 registered voters are Democrats but the county has voted Republican for president since 2008, including 73% for Donald Trump in 2016.

“Now they’re closing the coal-fired plants,” Webb said, “and those tradesmen and -women are being thrown out of those highly skilled jobs, and it’s having a terrible impact.”

Any guesses why all those Democrats started voting Republican under Obama, besides racism of course? Obama's war on coal destroyed their livelihoods. That's also why they voted against Clinton. That's why Trump won in Pennsylvania. No, it wasn't sexism or racism. It was that the Democrats decided that these poor white people were no longer important constituencies for the Democratic party.

So it seems like you are just concern trolling here @late.

In Bullock County, median income after inflation dropped 18% between 2016 and 2018 to $29,267. Padgett said that may reflect a more realistic estimate than in years past, when immigrants working at the poultry plant were afraid to participate in the 2010 census. That may have resulted in an undercount of the low-income population, distorting income statistics, he said.

“We have to do a better job next year,” Padgett said, referring to the 2020 census. An artificially high median income figure in 2010 left the county with less money for things like police cars. The U.S. Department of Agriculture should subsidize those purchases 55%, he said, but instead the county qualifies for only 25% to 35%.

Yeah, the census is probably undercounting the homeless population as well as illegal immigrants. However, it's interesting to note how illegal immigrants are hurting sanctuary states, counties and cities. Maybe try not violating the law that you guys created, because you thought exploiting illegal aliens was some sort of free lunch. It's not.

JohnRawls wrote:Simply put, if a business can hire somebody for 10 to 20 times less the price then there is no reason for them not to do it as long as they have any education. (Quality doesn't matter) The profit margins matter too much and the financial market allows to compensate for any loss in quality of the product as long as that profit margin is good.

To say nothing of having to comply with labor standards, environmental standards, etc. Again, the ONLY viable US politician willing to address illegal immigration and trade with communist dictatorship slave states like China is Donald Trump. Ironically, Nancy Pelosi used to be the most vocal person about this in the Democratic Party, and she's trying to impeach Trump.

@late's article is also talking about methamphetamine and opioids, coming in mostly from Mexico--yet another reason to build a wall to at least slow that down. Since the fentanyl comes mostly from China to Mexico, then to America, it's all the more reason to keep tariffs high on Chinese goods. A dictatorship allowing fentanyl exports isn't turning a blind eye. It's waging a war in an orthogonal manner.

Julian658 wrote:UBI is the only solution.

That would only increase aggregate demand for alcohol, opioids and meth. That's why we have food stamps and rent vouchers--it prevents misuse of funds.

Julian658 wrote:But sadly this will lead to nihilism, drug use, low self esteem and a dystopian world.

So you have an answer to your own question. Paying poor people a stipend to do some skills training might be an answer. There would have to be a graduated scale however, where those who successfully complete the training are rewarded for doing so. Otherwise, you'll have class rooms of people hung over and asleep waiting to collect a voucher at the end of class when they wake up.

Pants-of-dog wrote:While it is true that many people in these places voted for Trump because they (incorrectly) thought he would fix this, it does not change the fact that Trump and his administration will not fix the problem.

Trump can't change the coal-fired plants switching to gas. He has helped in places like Pennsylvania where they have opened new mines and are using coal for smelting.

JohnRawls wrote:Actually the first ones to point this out were people like Chomsky and Zizek, come to think of it.

Libertarians like Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein pointed it out in the 1990s with The Bell Curve, basically showing that de-industrialization--a deliberate policy--was not going to work well for people with low IQ. You could not simply send them to college. Today, we have lots of low IQ people with high college debt and worthless college degrees like "Women's Studies", "Black Studies" and such that can only get you a government job. The private sector doesn't give a shit about that stuff. That's why free college tuition isn't an answer either. We need consumer protections for students now, because colleges and universities are a business whether they run for-profit or not, and they will lie, cheat and steal just like any other business. Just as we have a Truth in Lending Act, we need to have a Truth in Education Expenses act so that students know what they are facing when they get out of school with a worthless degree and a ton of debt.

JohnRawls wrote:The right more or less understand now that the EU is here to stay nor is there a reason to remove it and the centrists will probably side with the right because of this over the next decade.

The UK is leaving the EU. The EU's popularity is waning among its core nations. Lege, Marine Le Pen, AfD, etc. are all gaining. The idea that the EU is here to stay remains to be seen. Even George Soros fears it may go the way of the Soviet Union.
#15056037
We need consumer protections for students now, because colleges and universities are a business whether they run for-profit or not, and they will lie, cheat and steal just like any other business. Just as we have a Truth in Lending Act, we need to have a Truth in Education Expenses act so that students know what they are facing when they get out of school with a worthless degree and a ton of debt.


This is an immensely difficult issue for a number of reasons. For me, first among them, is that the federal government has virtually guaranteed schools as much money as they want to charge by mortgaging the next generation. There is absolutely no incentive for schools to either be frugal with their resources or limit their enrollment to those who would actually benefit.

I am not buying into the IQ thing because it is far more complicated than that but I will certainly agree that we have about a zillion times more people in college than we really need. The US is the sixth most educated country in the world (The UK fifth and Canada first) but there is a real question whether or not we need that many graduates. The US is third in STEM graduates behind China and India which have 8 and 5 times as many respectively.

But here is the rub. The US had 568K STEM graduates in 2016. This is 1 in every 118 graduates. In China the number is 4.7 million. India 2.6 million. The US just barely edges out Russia and little Iran is 338,000 stem grads. What are the rest of the students doing? With some notable exceptions such as art and music which occupy a special place away from the table, they are making up for piss poor high schools. Some say they colleges are replacing high schools as the first middle class academic achievement but I disagree. I think they are filling in the gaps by teaching the liberal arts stuff that we of the old persuasion got in high school. While this is no big deal what is a big deal is that those who do not go on to college do not get that stuff at all. Ask a high school student how many congressmen there are or even how many branches of government and it will sit you down hard.

I favor taking ALL federal money out of education except some very limited loan forgiveness for people the government needs to hire and maybe the GI Bill. (Remember that the GI Bill is, not only incidentally, designed to encourage people go get out of the military. I will explain this if you want.)

So no more federal student loans AT ALL. What will this do? It will make colleges more frugal for one. Far more frugal. Perhaps more importantly, if students have to go to the private sector for loans, what they major in will become very important in determining if they can pay the loan back. And not insignificantly, if fewer people can get the stuff they need in college the high schools will have to, once again, teach them.

Then we have the scam of online education. A student is given "credits" toward a degree virtually without human contact. And what do these online credits cost? Wait for it:

ASU Online tuition costs range between $530-$1,153 per credit hour, depending on your program, transfer credits and course load. Ranked as a best buy college from Fiske Guide to Colleges, ASU Online is a top university for excellence and value among public colleges in the US.


And this is the best buy? Take the low number, $530.00. This puts the cost of the 120 hours a student needs to graduate at a staggering $63,000.00 without the need for the college to buy so much as a chair. This could be run from a cubical floor in a high rise. The online class I am working with will have north of 80 students each earning three credit hours. Again taking the lowest number this class will generate a minimum of $42K for the school while paying an adjunct a few thousand for doing it.

Our universities are very much like our medical system. Far too expensive. (UK I am looking at you too. You suck too.)

So the median starting salary for a Liberal Arts or General Studies graduate is about $42K per year. Given that the average student pays $26K per year for school with nominal room and board, how are these students to repay $80K+ and still have money to survive particularly in our larger cities? And all but the interest on the loans is paid with after tax dollars. Interesting comparison with a plumber who, in my area, would start a little higher after an apprenticeship for which he/she is paid and a much higher potential earnings down the road.

So what does this mean to Trump and the Democrats? Nothing. The Dems want to spend more on this stuff, Trump is virtually moot on the subject and his administration doing nothing at all about it.

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