Impeachment in Wonderland - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15065350
SpecialOlympian wrote:Mormons are slightly more consistent than Evangelicals in their faith. Not enough to not vote for Trump, but enough to vote for a senator who doesn't obey Trump like he's king.

Well, Romney sent a strong message regarding Trump to his voters anyway.
#15065435
Adam Schiff: You're all afraid to speak against the president because of how vindictive he is.

The GOP: HOW DARE YOU, SIR, HOW DARE YOU. Never speak to me or my large adult POTUS ever again! (Please notice me defending you Mr. President you are so kind and gracious and good.)

*Days later*



The GOP: It's a good thing you did that Mr. Potus. A very good thing. You're such a good boy.
#15065436
Well, Romney sent a strong message regarding Trump to his voters anyway.


Yes he did. And to Mormons in general.
#15065451
SpecialOlympian wrote:Mormons are slightly more consistent than Evangelicals in their faith. Not enough to not vote for Trump, but enough to vote for a senator who doesn't obey Trump like he's king.

I have known and worked with LDS Mormons and even went to their worship service. My wife vetoed the idea of ever going back because she did not like the way they treated our kids. But I continued to try to talk sense to those at work when I got a chance. But probably because of their strong indoctrination, I was unable to convince them that their Prophet Joseph Smith was a fraud. Eventually, they became angry at me and would not talk to me anymore.
#15065454
Hindsite wrote:... I was unable to convince them that their Prophet Joseph Smith was a fraud.

Eventually, they became angry at me and would not talk to me anymore.



It is unwise to undermine someone else's religion while working with them, seriously.

Even Billy Graham knows that.
#15065461
Hindsite wrote:I have known and worked with LDS Mormons and even went to their worship service. My wife vetoed the idea of ever going back because she did not like the way they treated our kids. But I continued to try to talk sense to those at work when I got a chance. But probably because of their strong indoctrination, I was unable to convince them that their Prophet Joseph Smith was a fraud. Eventually, they became angry at me and would not talk to me anymore.


I like this trolling from you, lol. Do more of this.

But for real the Mormons can get pretty hardcore. I've read stories from ex-Mormons talking about how they would get people from local Stakes stopping by after they moved every few months.

Like it was low pressure and they'd bring baked goods and say, "Hey I'm from X Stake I wanted to introduce myself." They at least didn't go full salespitch off the bat. But you apparently have to write to the Salt Lake City church offices to have yourself officially removed from the rolls.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 08 Feb 2020 04:20, edited 1 time in total.
#15065462
SpecialOlympian wrote:Adam Schiff: You're all afraid to speak against the president because of how vindictive he is.

The GOP: HOW DARE YOU, SIR, HOW DARE YOU. Never speak to me or my large adult POTUS ever again! (Please notice me defending you Mr. President you are so kind and gracious and good.)

*Days later*



The GOP: It's a good thing you did that Mr. Potus. A very good thing. You're such a good boy.

Lt. Col. Vindman, CIA “Whistleblower” Source #1

Amid increased calls from House Republicans to force the testimony of the CIA “whistleblower”, the Washington Post, the primary outlet for CIA misinformation and public relations, began shaping the “whistle-blower” as a hero.

Because the overall effort involves multiple parts of the deep state apparatus, to see through the construction it is important to note which media outlet holds equity for agency talking points within the coup. The Washington Post is primary PR for the CIA and IC writ large. The New York Times is primary PR for the FBI; and CNN is primary PR for the State Dept. This pattern has been consistent throughout.

Over time it has become clear the first confidential human source for the CIA Ukraine dossier, written by CIA analyst Eric Ciaramella and also known as the “Whistleblower report”, is Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman a Ukraine expert inside the National Security Council on assignment from the Dept of Defense intelligence unit.

Within his deposition the ideology of Lt. Col Vindman is clear. Vindman’s mission focus was/is to shape U.S. policy toward Ukraine (and by extension NATO) regardless of the actual policy view of President Trump. Within his deposition Vindman admitted to giving countermanding instructions to his Ukraine counterpart two weeks after understanding opposite policy objectives from his commander-in-chief.

During his deposition Lt Col Vindman also admitted -with considerable angst and attempts to deflect from his legal advisors provided by the Dept. of Defense- that he was intentionally usurping the chain of command in an effort to follow his own ideological agenda; and perhaps that of his DoD leadership.

By itself that level of admitted and direct insubordination should be alarming for many reasons; not the least of which is his lineage within the U.S. Military. Indeed Vindman’s intent and purpose explains why he appeared for his deposition in full military uniform.

CIA Agent Eric Ciaramella never delivered his dossier briefing to the upward chain-of-command within the CIA. Instead Ciaramella subverted the formal process and transmitted his hearsay complaint, derived from material provided by Vindman, directly to principal officials who could assist in the removal of the President.

During his testimony Lt. Col. Vindman testified that he did not know the leaker but refused to answer questions on the leaker after saying he did not know who the leaker was. Vindman said he went around his chain of command and did not go through his boss Tim Morrisson. Vindman insisted he was in charge of Ukraine policy but then said he wasn’t.

His boss Tim Morrison earlier testified that he did not trust Vindman and that he suspected Vindman was a leaker. (He was!)

Vindman was unreliable and had questionable judgment, according to his own outgoing superior, Tim Morrison, the National Security Council’s senior director for European affairs.

In fact, Morrison viewed Vindman as so untrustworthy that he opted to exclude him from his conversations with William Taylor, the senior US diplomat in Ukraine.

Vindman had an “unfortunate habit,” Morrison thought, of defying the sprawling executive branch’s carefully delineated chain of command. Vindman’s testimony vindicates Morrison’s dripping disdain for his former subordinate.

Vindman, who testified that he has never spoken directly with the president, nonetheless admitted to advising Zelensky as to how to comport himself in his communication with Trump. Vindman testified that he did not have time to express his concerns directly to Morrison, but he apparently found the time to express his concerns to both Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent and an unnamed individual (Eric Ciaramella?) in the intelligence community.

Vindman is not at all a hero to be idolized who has given us a high moral example to follow. It’s actually quite the opposite. Vindman is traitorous and has opened up our nation to more division and wasted resources.
#15065463
Lol, I see why you don't cite your sources. The first result for your article is a site trying to sell gold and silver.

Anyway, let's ignore Vindman. Why was his twin fired?
#15065464
Two soldiers, war criminal Eddie Gallagher gets praise and a pardon while Alexander Vindman gets pushed out for bravely testifying and doing his job with integrity.

I see where Col. Vindman was awarded a purple heart for wounds received in Iraq while wearing an American uniform. Does anyone know if our favorite draft dodger, Private Bone Spurs, ever shed any blood for America?

Looks like Impeached President Trump has turned America into the land of hatred and revenge. Great again :( ?
#15065465
SpecialOlympian wrote:Lol, I see why you don't cite your sources. The first result for your article is a site trying to sell gold and silver.

Anyway, let's ignore Vindman. Why was his twin fired?


Because he was another dual-loyalty Ukrainian Fascist from the Ukrainian Fascist Diaspora. Fuckers probably have pictures of Stephan Bandera on their walls of their bedrooms with candles and Nazi regalia.

But that's just my theory.
#15065467
Patrickov wrote:It is unwise to undermine someone else's religion while working with them, seriously.

Even Billy Graham knows that.

Well, I certainly would not claim to be in Billy Graham's league. However, I hope my Lord will understand that at least I tried.
#15065470
jimjam wrote:Two soldiers, war criminal Eddie Gallagher gets praise and a pardon while Alexander Vindman gets pushed out for bravely testifying and doing his job with integrity.

I see where Col. Vindman was awarded a purple heart for wounds received in Iraq while wearing an American uniform. Does anyone know if our favorite draft dodger, Private Bone Spurs, ever shed any blood for America?

Looks like Impeached President Trump has turned America into the land of hatred and revenge. Great again :( ?

LTC Vindman was wounded by an improvised explosive device in Iraq in October 2004 when the vehicle he was riding in was hit. I really don't see the simple shedding of blood as a measure of a hero.
#15065471
Hindsite wrote:I have known and worked with LDS Mormons and even went to their worship service. My wife vetoed the idea of ever going back because she did not like the way they treated our kids. But I continued to try to talk sense to those at work when I got a chance. But probably because of their strong indoctrination, I was unable to convince them that their Prophet Joseph Smith was a fraud. Eventually, they became angry at me and would not talk to me anymore.


Well, consider the conversation if you tried telling a Christian that Jesus was simply a man, and not the son of God at all.

Imagine dispelling the idea of "immaculate conception" with the idea rape.

Imagine telling a Christian that Jesus never rose from the dead. His body was stolen by grave robbers.

Mormons getting pissed about someone speaking negatively about the religion is no different that anyone else getting pissed when their religion is criticized or accused of being false.
#15065476
SpecialOlympian wrote:Lol, I see why you don't cite your sources. The first result for your article is a site trying to sell gold and silver.

Anyway, let's ignore Vindman. Why was his twin fired?

Why not? It is part of draining the swamp.

Harley wrote:Well, consider the conversation if you tried telling a Christian that Jesus was simply a man, and not the son of God at all.

Imagine dispelling the idea of "immaculate conception" with the idea rape.

Imagine telling a Christian that Jesus never rose from the dead. His body was stolen by grave robbers.

Atheist do that all the time with me.

Harley wrote:Mormons getting pissed about someone speaking negatively about the religion is no different that anyone else getting pissed when their religion is criticized or accused of being false.

I don't get pissed. I just feel sorry for them.
#15065480
Hindsite wrote:Well, I certainly would not claim to be in Billy Graham's league.

However, I hope my Lord will understand that at least I tried.



In that case, the following person may be an even more excellent example than the late Mr. Graham.

The story, as published by Fox News
#15065532
Hindsite wrote:Atheist do that all the time with me.


I don't get pissed. I just feel sorry for them.[/quote]

That you don't get pissed doesn't mean that others don't.

I'm Agnostic. I decided to have some fun with a born-again friend of mine, who always feels the need to proselytize, and ask him what he thought about the possibility of Mary being raped.

You know that vein in the middle of your forehead?
By Rich
#15065533
Harley wrote:I'm Agnostic. I decided to have some fun with a born-again friend of mine, who always feels the need to proselytize, and ask him what he thought about the possibility of Mary being raped.

You know that vein in the middle of your forehead?

Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

“Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What are these remarkable miracles he is performing? 3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

Some will see this as a prophesy of Donald Trump and his low popularity in New York city. Anyway Mark almost universally agreed to be the earliest extant Gospel clearly didn't think the Mary was a virgin. There is no suggestion that Jesus or any of his brothers had anything, but a normal conception and even if Jesus had been conceived by a Holy non incarnating Spirit, there is no suggestion in Mark that he was the oldest sibling.
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”

23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. 28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

30 He said this because they were saying, “He has an impure spirit.”

31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”

33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.

34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

:lol: So to put it in the modern vernacular, according to Mark again, his family wanted to have him sectioned and he disowned them. Pope Benedict, hardly a radical liberal theologian, wrote a thesis, long before he became Pope, essentially arguing that the nativity stories are later additions bearing no basis in historical events.
#15065548
Here is what is really interesting to me. Your mileage may vary.

Atheists and others who like to make anti-religious arguments such as the "Mary rape" one profoundly offend Christians. While more progressively minded Christians like myself may give them a pass for it, fundamentalists will not. In fact they will see it as an attack by "liberals" and "Godless commies" and....

So there are a lot of fundamentalists and they tend to vote as a block. They tend to vote republican because for some reason I will never understand and have never heard articulated the democrats run from religion like it was fire. I suppose in its desire to be "inclusive" the Democratic Party idiotically decides that to acknowledge the beliefs of one group it would somehow denigrate the beliefs of others.

The democrats have a compelling argument to make to fundamentalists. They do not have to abandon their beliefs on a woman's right to choose and same sex marriage to forward one of compassion, love, forgiveness and care for those who are down. They could even make a very compelling argument about how their social welfare beliefs cut abortion rates while the republican efforts to cut social welfare increase them. But they don't even try. So every election cycle they (according to Pew) cede 25% of voters to the republicans. And this does not include the considerable minority of Roman Catholics who are rabidly anti-abortion.

I would like to express my own feelings for the record. When my beliefs are attacked by atheists my knee jerk reaction is to want to prevent them from succeeding in secularizing my world. Voting republican would, on the surface of it, seem to help do that. I say knee jerk because sober thought brings me to the understanding that religion has to win on its merits and not through government protection but with one caveat: That is that government does not create a hostile environment for religious expression. It is a fine line between religious accommodation and supporting a particular religion. Got that. But it is important not to err in favor of suppressing religious expression.

It goes like this. The democrats are associated with academe. The republicans have successfully painted educators as all "liberal". They have painted "liberals" as anti-religious. So every time we read of a school telling a kid he can't wear a cross or say Merry Christmas I can see the Christians turning right into the republican camp. I have had the same feelings myself on many occasions. And republican politicians, correctly in my view, rant on about how the "liberals" are trying to suppress our God given right to religious expression. And they are not wrong. I believe it is fine to say merry Christmas and wear a cross and that if it makes some Muslim student feel like an outsider then they need to be taught to think otherwise. They need to be taught that my religious expression is not meant to suppress theirs and that they should realize that when I say Merry Christmas I am saying something nice to them. And when I see a Muslim praying that it is in no way a threat to my religion. That the law protects both of us.

The Republicans dominate this discussion and I believe always will. I see no effort by the democrats to court the Christian vote. Indeed we hear them refer to practicing Christians as the "religious right". There is no need for that at all and it is counterproductive. The ballot box is secret as are the religious beliefs of most people. We vote from the heart as much as anything else. So when I enter the ballot box and balance Trump's shenanigans with the idea that he will appoint religion friendly judges that will ensure a religious friendly judiciary and Supreme Court for a couple of generations it is really easy to just pull the Trump and republican senator buttons and ignore the rest. After all. For many religious people, like myself, religious beliefs are the most important things in our lives.

Is this related to why Trump was acquitted? Hell yes! If religious Americans had seen Trump's sinful past and current behavior as tipping the balance between that and a fear of Democrats secularized politics, President Pence would be running the show right now.
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